The Betrayal of Macedonia in Political Statistics

[Soldier of Macedon]

Here are some political and voting statistics regarding the recent betrayal of Macedonia. I put them on a separate thread for easy reference so we can always know who betrayed the Macedonian people. If anybody notices discrepancies, let me know and I will make the necessary changes. Sources here: https://republika.mk/vesti/makedonij...smenija-imeto/ and here: https://www.sobranie.mk/


The 120 representatives in the Macedonian assembly by ethnicity:

• 87 Macedonians (Incl. 2 Macedonian Muslims): 72.5%
• 23 Albanians (Incl. 1 delusional Macedonian Orthodox Christian): 19.2%
• 3 Romani: 2.5%
• 2 Serbs: 1.7%
• 2 Turks: 1.7%
• 2 Bosniaks: 1.7%
• 1 Vlach: 0.8%

The 120 representatives in the Macedonian assembly by religion:

• 89 Orthodox Christians (Macedonians, Serbs, Vlach): 74.2%
• 31 Muslims (Macedonians, Albanians, Romani, Turks, Bosniaks): 25.8%

The 120 representatives in the Macedonian assembly who voted yes or weren’t present for the name and constitution change by ethnicity:

• 39 Not Present: 32.5%

- 38 Macedonians: 31.7%
- 1 Serb: 0.8%

• 81 Voted Yes: 67.5%

- 49 Macedonians: 40.8%
- 23 Albanians: 19.2%
- 3 Romani: 2.5%
- 2 Turks: 1.7%
- 2 Bosniaks: 1.7%
- 1 Vlach: 0.8%
- 1 Serb: 0.8%

The 120 representatives in the Macedonian assembly who voted yes or weren’t present for the name and constitution change by religion:

• Orthodox Christians:

- 39 Not Present: 43.8%
- 50 Voted Yes: 56.2%

• Muslims:

- 0 Not Present: 0.0%
- 31 Voted Yes: 100%


The 120 representatives in the Macedonian assembly who voted yes or weren’t present for the name and constitution change by political party (and majority ethnic affiliation):

• 39 Not Present: 32.5%

- 36 Democratic Party for Macedonian National Unity (MK): 30.0%
- 2 Socialist Party of Macedonia (MK): 1.7%
- 1 Democratic Party of Serbs in Macedonia (SR): 0.8%

• 81 Voted Yes: 67.5%

- 33 Social Democratic Union of Macedonia (MK): 27.5%
- 10 Democratic Union for Integration (AL): 8.3%
- 7 Independents Ex-DPNE (MK): 5.8%
- 6 Independents (MK) : 5.0%
- 5 Movement BESA (AL): 3.3%
- 3 Democratic Party of Albanians (AL): 2.5%
- 2 Liberal Democratic Party (MK): 1.7%
- 2 Democratic Renewal of Macedonia (MK): 1.7%
- 2 New Social Democratic Party (MK): 1.7%
- 1 Party for European Future (MK): 0.8%
- 1 Citizen Option for Macedonia (MK): 0.8%
- 1 Party of United Pensioners and Citizens of Macedonia (MK): 0.8%
- 1 National Democratic Revival (AL): 0.8%
- 1 Alliance for Albanians (AL): 0.8%
- 1 Alliance of Roma in Macedonia (RO): 0.8%
- 1 Party for Social and Economic Progress (RO): 0.8%
- 1 Party for the Full Emancipation of Roma in Macedonia (RO): 0.8%
- 1 Serbian Party of Macedonia (SR): 0.8%
- 1 Turkish Progressive Party (TR): 0.8%
- 1 Democratic Party of Turks (TR): 0.8%


A few observations based on the above:

• The figures of representatives who voted yes and were not present (or boycotted) in the assembly are almost the opposite to the figures of the people who voted yes and were not present (or boycotted) in the referendum. So much for the term “representatives”
• Save for one Serb (who probably had his own motivation for not being present or boycotting), not a single other member of Macedonia’s ethnic minority groups and not a single Muslim voted against this betrayal of Macedonia. They don’t have the same vested interest to preserve the integrity of the titular ethnic group nor do they truly respect Macedonia
• After everything our fatherland has afforded minority ethnic groups, even at the expense of the titular Macedonian ethnic group, their representatives weren’t loyal enough to uphold the dignity of Macedonia and its historical identity (nor were most of our own, for that matter). This is what Macedonians get for being the “nice guys” in the Balkans
• The irony and ungratefulness of some of the names for minority political parties like Democratic Union for Integration when they do everything possible to avoid integrating into greater Macedonian society or the Party for Full Emancipation of Roma when they are afforded more recognition in Macedonia than any other Balkan country
• One wonders when the Macedonian political parties will start adding the ‘northern’ prefix to their names given that they were so keen on this betrayal
• Lastly, we had the numbers. Rather than unifying, our Macedonian "representatives" were fractured into a dozen or so groups. We could’ve seized the initiative many times. Suffice to say, most of our so-called kinsmen in the Macedonian assembly are idiotic traitors who deserve to burn in hell

[Liberator of Makedonija]

How were the Socialist Party both not present and also voted for?

[Soldier of Macedon]

How were the Socialist Party both not present and also voted for?

Well picked up. Vladanka Avirovik was part of the SPM but now she's independent. I will update the list. The other remaining 2 from SPM, Stojan Milanov and Ljupcho Dimovski, weren't present.

[Big Bad Sven]

Good research and analytics. As you said these minorities dont care about macedonia. Its a fairy tale that they love macedonia. Disappointing really, after macedonians gave so much rights and support to groups like cigans and vlach.

I dont understand modern macedonians. They try to hard to be seen as the nice guy or the progressive country in the balkans. So what mother THeresa is from Skopje, why celebrate and promote Esma Redžepova as some macedonian 'hero'? Promote macedonian folk instead. Fuck them, these guys never did anything for us in the past and certainly never helped in our moment of need.

God i wish macedonians where more like patriotic hungarians, poles or even serbs or bulgarians.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Good research and analytics. As you said these minorities dont care about macedonia. Its a fairy tale that they love macedonia. Disappointing really, after macedonians gave so much rights and support to groups like cigans and vlach.

I dont understand modern macedonians. They try to hard to be seen as the nice guy or the progressive country in the balkans. So what mother THeresa is from Skopje, why celebrate and promote Esma Redžepova as some macedonian 'hero'? Promote macedonian folk instead. Fuck them, these guys never did anything for us in the past and certainly never helped in our moment of need.

God i wish macedonians where more like patriotic hungarians, poles or even serbs or bulgarians.

You realise the entire Macedonian nationalist ideology is based around the desire for a Macedonian state encompassing its entire geographic definition in which the ethnicity, language and religion of all its inhabitants are respected.

[Carlin]

Good research and analytics. As you said these minorities dont care about macedonia. Its a fairy tale that they love macedonia. Disappointing really, after macedonians gave so much rights and support to groups like cigans and vlach.

LOL, you are putting the Vlachs in the same category as the Roma.

A lot of Vlachs have fought and died for Macedonia. The level of intermarriage between Macedonians and Armani ("Vlachs") is quite high, and the relations are pretty good. In effect, there are no differences betweent the two. I speak from personal experience. Many "Vlachs" today, as an "ethnic minority", no longer have 'traditional' names/surnames, few know the language - but have Macedonian names, are Macedonian Orthodox Christians, and speak only Macedonian (the Vlachs received "new names" from the state after World War II, i.e. -ski, -ev endings). They declare themselves as such in the census.

Random choice example: Gjoko Dineski

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VyDj0yGWOI

Also, the number of people who have some/partial Vlach ancestry is much higher than observed in the census numbers (people simply declare themselves as Macedonians).

[VMRO]

LOL, you are putting the Vlachs in the same category as the Roma.

A lot of Vlachs have fought and died for Macedonia. The level of intermarriage between Macedonians and Armani ("Vlachs") is quite high, and the relations are pretty good. In effect, there are no differences betweent the two. I speak from personal experience. Many "Vlachs" today, as an "ethnic minority", no longer have 'traditional' names/surnames, few know the language - but have Macedonian names, are Macedonian Orthodox Christians, and speak only Macedonian (the Vlachs received "new names" from the state after World War II, i.e. -ski, -ev endings). They declare themselves as such in the census.

Random choice example: Gjoko Dineski

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VyDj0yGWOI

Also, the number of people who have some/partial Vlach ancestry is much higher than observed in the census numbers (people simply declare themselves as Macedonians).

For the record i respect Vlachs (the Vlachs who are loyal to Macedonia and not the Hellenized Vlachs) and Roma.

What estimate do you give with respect to the amount of Vlachs in the Republic of Macedonia?

I have always stated that it was wrong for the communists to give the Vlachs last names and/or modify them with ev, ov, ski additions to last names.

I'm sure you have heard about theories regarding the "Vlach Lobby", Yet to see evidence of a establishment like this exist and i believe it has something more to do with prominent politicians/Businessmen of Vlach origins and people making false links to them.

Eg: Hari Kostov, Jani Makriduli, Taki Fiti.

[Soldier of Macedon]

.....the Vlachs received "new names" from the state after World War II, i.e. -ski, -ev endings).

Was there a formal edict or law which mandated that Vlachs had to "receive new names" from the state?

A lot of Vlachs have fought and died for Macedonia.

True. The Vlachs (those who weren't suckered in by the Greeks) were probably the only ethnic group that provided a notable level of support to the Macedonians in their quest for a free Macedonia. Those who sacrificed their lives for the cause deserve nothing less than respect. Macedonia honours its Vlach heroes. Too bad many of their descendants aren't as passionate about the idea of a sovereign Macedonia today.

Also, the number of people who have some/partial Vlach ancestry is much higher than observed in the census numbers (people simply declare themselves as Macedonians).

There is some truth to that, but nearly all of the minorities claim their numbers were/are much higher and/or have decreased due to assimilation. If we were to take them all at face value, then actual Macedonians have been an ethnic minority in their own fatherland for quite some time. Meanwhile, most records from the 19th century clearly indicate that the cultural and linguistic ancestors of today's ethnic Macedonians were the majority in the territory of the Macedonian republic. Go figure.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

True. The Vlachs (those who weren't suckered in by the Greeks) were probably the only ethnic group that provided a notable level of support to the Macedonians in their quest for a free Macedonia. Those who sacrificed their lives for the cause deserve nothing less than respect. Macedonia honours its Vlach heroes. Too bad many of their descendants aren't as passionate about the idea of a sovereign Macedonia today.

Duncan Perry confirms that beside Macedonians, VMRO's revolutionary ideals found their largest audience amongst the Vlachs.

[Carlin]

Was there a formal edict or law which mandated that Vlachs had to "receive new names" from the state?

It wasn't just the "Vlachs" who received new (sur)names. The "literary" Macedonian -ski ending was the system adopted in the Macedonian Republic from 1944, and it impacted many Macedonians as well.

True. The Vlachs (those who weren't suckered in by the Greeks) were probably the only ethnic group that provided a notable level of support to the Macedonians in their quest for a free Macedonia. Those who sacrificed their lives for the cause deserve nothing less than respect. Macedonia honours its Vlach heroes. Too bad many of their descendants aren't as passionate about the idea of a sovereign Macedonia today.

There is some truth to that, but nearly all of the minorities claim their numbers were/are much higher and/or have decreased due to assimilation. If we were to take them all at face value, then actual Macedonians have been an ethnic minority in their own fatherland for quite some time. Meanwhile, most records from the 19th century clearly indicate that the cultural and linguistic ancestors of today's ethnic Macedonians were the majority in the territory of the Macedonian republic. Go figure.

I'm not sure what the "exact" number of Vlachs is in Macedonia. As I said, I actually believe that Vlachs as a separate community hardly exist nowadays due to widespread intermarriage and primarily identify as Macedonians. As a result of the intermarriage, most "Vlachs" nowadays are mixed, and vice versa. There are a lot of Macedonians who have at least a Vlach grandfather or Vlach grandmother in their family line, i.e. the late Ljubisha Georgievski, who was basically half-Vlach as he himself explains here (minute 2:05 to 3:05):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bau6PFnGzc

[Soldier of Macedon]

It wasn't just the "Vlachs" who received new (sur)names. The "literary" Macedonian -ski ending was the system adopted in the Macedonian Republic from 1944, and it impacted many Macedonians as well.

If it was a system, why are there thousands of citizens (many of them Macedonians) that don't have a ski-ending in the republic?

There are a lot of Macedonians who have at least a Vlach grandfather or Vlach grandmother in their family line....

Perhaps, but most do not.

[Carlin]

If it was a system, why are there thousands of citizens (many of them Macedonians) that don't have a ski-ending in the republic?

I said that this impacted many Macedonians -- not all or most Macedonians.

The following comes from E. Damianopoulos, who is a Macedonian.

URL:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=5RjGAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA121&dq=Damianopoulos+Macedonian+republic+system&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiTt7fWq6biAhUkx1kKHViMD6gQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

[Soldier of Macedon]

I said that this impacted many Macedonians -- not all or most Macedonians.

Okay, let me ask the question for a third time in a different way. Why wasn't the system applied to the whole country?

[Carlin]

Okay, let me ask the question for a third time in a different way. Why wasn't the system applied to the whole country?

Probably because there was no need to apply the "system" across the board as the majority of the population was Macedonian, with different last name formulas (-ev, -ov).

[I have personally heard of a few cases (not a large sample size of course, and not scientific in any way) that name endings of Bulgarian sympathizers/Bulgarophiles were changed accordingly to -ski. A Macedonian I talked to last year implied that his family's last name was changed to -ski due to the "perceptions" that his family/forefathers were regarded as Bulgarians. I found it somewhat surprising that he opened up to me in this manner because I did/do not know him at all -- and I did not even ask him any personal or leading questions.]

[Liberator of Makedonija]

If it was a system, why are there thousands of citizens (many of them Macedonians) that don't have a ski-ending in the republic?

Egejci maybe?

Okay, let me ask the question for a third time in a different way. Why wasn't the system applied to the whole country?

The -ski suffix was widely common in western Macedonia so maybe that's why.