Macedonia and the European Union

[fyrOM]

1. What investments?

Oh, Gees, TRG, am I supposed to have a list of all the companies and projects - the way you make it sound, nothing at all has happened.

2. Is it more appropriate to call them loans?

Those that are loans are cheap loans, and then there are grants and subsidies - so no, it's not all been loans.

3. What promises or intent are you referring to?

That Macedonia will become a member of the EU and NATO. Macedonia has always said they want to be ie promise/intent.

4. The tax/import duty considerations are of no benefit to the EU. You are saying Macedonia will benefit from them. The EU simply gets less money.

Gees RTG, you once said you were an accountant - this question shouldn't be coming from you.
Companies all around the world don't pay the company tax rate if they employ a lot of people - relying on negotiating their tax rate taking into account increased payroll tax and their employes' personal tax into the mix going to the government, likewise what the EU misses on stinging companies/goods in duty from Macedonia the Western companies who invest in Macedonia use the cheaper labor ect cost and the low/no duty to boost their profits and enrich the Western investors which swings back to the EU - seriously?

By the way, you once said you might hirer me to do the taxes for some of your clients who want 2 + 2 to equal five - or are they already getting that? or 7 or 3 or whatever number you finger hits the keyboard first?

5. Is the EU forcing Macedonia to change its name equivalent to receiving an engagement ring?

I've said it before - the West/EU really don't give a flying F if Macedonia is called Macedonia or Mars or whatever as long as they are in the EU.

The 'easiest' solution for them is if a suitable name can be found, and if Macedonia trips-up someway, as far as they see it, all the better, but as can be seen from many MEPs and countries that support Macedonia, they would also be very happy to see Macedonia called Macedonia - the how to do it part is the stickler - remember Veto and unanimous decision rules. There were even rumblings of re-drafting their rules to change the unanimous bit so bilateral issues (not just in Macedonia's case) don't cause problems.

6. You think the EU is looking for a marriage, I think the EU is looking for a quick sleazy one.

Whatever gave you that idea! The EU have been all about the long-term Europe, but like in many marriages, the partnership is not exactly equal and many partners choose to exploit this difference (not that I am necessarily saying it's a good thing, just that it is a reality of life).

Even (South) Africans get it that we want to be Macedonia and that the EU is a long-term reality - or don't you read Afrikaans, I thought you did seeing you skipped the obvious Macedonian news out-lets in preference to news from South Africa regarding Macedonia, or was it the SA part that got you confused thinking it was South Australia?

[Volk]

EU wants its south eastern border stable, if we are called Skopje or Martians they have zero care... Only Macedonians should care

[Rogi]

fyrOM,

Google news. Search for Macedonia. Sort by date (latest). Simple, really.

[Risto the Great]

Basically, security on investment, kind of like you would spend more on a girl knowing she was going to become your wife than someone you just met. The EU has invested heavily in infrastructure and silently given the nod to private investors that Macedonia will enjoy favorable tax/import duty considerations as a EU Member. To not have Macedonia in the EU means not all the benefit of that investment will flow back to them. As it stands, their investments are relying on a promise or intent and not entirely secure.

1. What investments?
2. Is it more appropriate to call them loans?
3. What promises or intent are you referring to?
4. The tax/import duty considerations are of no benefit to the EU. You are saying Macedonia will benefit from them. The EU simply gets less money.
5. Is the EU forcing Macedonia to change its name equivalent to receiving an engagement ring?
6. You think the EU is looking for a marriage, I think the EU is looking for a quick sleazy one.

Gee RTG, it was quick off the mark to delete the previous post that said the article is from a South African newspaper and that it's good to see interest in Macedonia is so widespread. By the way Vest, IDIVIDI, MIA, and MINA to name a few carried the same story.

Strange you would look to South Africa - any other interests there.

It was the first of many links with the same message and I have no desire to entertain your foolery on the issue.

[fyrOM]

So, what do we all think is in it for the EU to have Republic of Macedonia (Skopje) urgently placed in the A (or EU) Team?

Basically, security on investment, kind of like you would spend more on a girl knowing she was going to become your wife than someone you just met. The EU has invested heavily in infrastructure and silently given the nod to private investors that Macedonia will enjoy favorable tax/import duty considerations as a EU Member. To not have Macedonia in the EU means not all the benefit of that investment will flow back to them. As it stands, their investments are relying on a promise or intent and not entirely secure.


Gee RTG, it was quick off the mark to delete the previous post that said the article is from a South African newspaper and that it's good to see interest in Macedonia is so widespread. By the way Vest, IDIVIDI, MIA, and MINA to name a few carried the same story.

Strange you would look to South Africa - any other interests there.

[Risto the Great]

In the interest of the EU

http://www.thenewage.co.za/17777-1020-53-Hungary_pledges_support_for_Macedonia's_EU_entry

Hungary pledges support for Macedonia's EU entry

Hungarian Prime Minister Victor Orban on Thursday pledged his support for the early opening of European Union accession talks with Macedonia, blocked for six years over a name dispute with Greece.

"Hungary as a (rotating) chairman of the EU presidency will continue to have the start of talks with Macedonia at the top of the agenda," Orban said after a meeting with his Macedonian counterpart Nikola Gruevski.

Macedonia has the status of member candidate since January 2005, but because of Greek objections over its name the country's entry into the EU and NATO is blocked.

Orban stressed that "this unnatural state should be resolved and Macedonia which has six years of candidate status should become a member as soon as possible".

"There is no reason for someone to stop a country from becoming a part of Europe. Nothing will be damaged if the accession talks start," he added. Orban insisted he was not taking sides in the long-running name row.

"It is my job to promote the interest of Europe, and the interest of the European Union is that Macedonia becomes a member as soon as possible," he said.

Gruevski said Orban's visit to Skopje was "a strong political signal that the Hungarian presidency is effectively devoted to continuing the process of European enlargement."

Macedonia has been at loggerheads with Greece since it proclaimed independence from the former Yugoslavia in 1991.

Greece, which has a northern province called Macedonia, says that the use of the same name by its neighbour implies a claim on Greek territory.

Not that I care terribly about Hungary's support. But what is clear is the vigour with which the EU seems to be presently applying in relation to the path of entry for Macedonia.

So, what do we all think is in it for the EU to have Republic of Macedonia (Skopje) urgently placed in the A (or EU) Team?

Sorry for writing Republic of Macedonia (Skopje) but it seems this is a forgone conclusion at the moment and Macedonians will probably claim a victory about the sizing of "Skopje". I can imagine it now and rely on the way Macedonians appear to have embraced the new flag.

[Onur]

Passport controls and border checks are returning in Europe after 10 years of free-travel policy;

Europe forced to propose passport controls in Schengen zone

Passport-free travel across the "Schengen" area, which does not include Britain or Ireland, has come under unprecedented pressure after Italy last month gave residence permits to over 25,000 Arab migrants allowing them unfettered access to rest of the EU.

France, the likely destination of the mainly French-speaking Tunisian immigrants, responded by temporarily closing a key railway frontier with Italy and by introducing tough extra checks for papers on immigrants.

"It may be necessary to foresee the temporary reintroduction of limited internal border controls under very exceptional circumstances," said Cecilia Malmstroem, the EU's internal affairs commissioner.

"The European Commission feels it should be a community mechanism not unilateral and there should be very clear conditions."

The Swedish commissioner insisted that even though border controls might be temporarily coming back to deal with an wave of immigrants from North Africa, it would not become the norm over the next few years.

"The free movement of people across European borders is a major achievement which must not be reversed," she insisted.

The proposals will be submitted to an emergency meeting of EU interior ministers on May 12 before what are expected to be bad tempered discussions on immigration between European leaders at a Brussels summit on June 24.

EU governments are unlikely to agree to the commission's rethink because it will give Brussels the power to decide which circumstances are "exceptional", removing the decision to reintroduce border controls from national capitals.


The police in Norway, a member of the Schengen zone even though it is not an EU member, on Wednesday complained that passport-free travel had led to a crime wave in Nordic countries.

"Open borders in Europe have led to a situation where 80 per cent of crimes committed in Norway and other Nordic states are carried out by criminals who are either from the Baltic states or are strongly linked to the organised crime in the Baltic states," said Egil Haaland, the president of the Norwegian police association.

"Open borders have became a big problem for us."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ngen-zone.html

Denmark announces decision to reintroduce border controls ahead of Schengen meeting

The new controls will come into force within two to three weeks, according to Claus Hjort Frederiksen, the finance minister.

Because Denmark is a member of Europe's visa-free Schengen area, it cannot reinstate full frontier controls, and will still follow European Union rules with its current plan to station customs officers permanently at borders to conduct random checks on vehicles.

"Everything will take place within the limits of Schengen," the minister said.

"Over the past few years we have seen an increase in trans-border crime, and this is designed to curb the problem. We will be building new facilities at the Danish-German border, with new electronic equipment and number-plate identifiers," he said.

The minister added Denmark wanted Danish customs officers to be permanently present at the Oeresund Bridge that links Denmark and Sweden.

The idea of controls at borders in Denmark was pressed by the far-right Danish People's Party and its head Pia Kjaersgaard, who argued that it would counter illegal immigration and organised crime. The People's Party has been a key ally of the centre-right government since 2001.

EU interior ministers will today [Thu] meet in Brussels to debate proposals for restoring temporary border controls within the visa-free zone.

Denmark thus went ahead with tighter border controls before a possible EU decision on the matter.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...n-meeting.html

[Risto the Great]

RTG said:



Shed some more light on what you mean? What does not change or contribute if you're an EU member?

The above countries are part of EU - Some people are less than objective when speaking of economic performance of EU members. They mention only Spain, Portugal, Bulgaria and Greece.


.

I was indicating that the countries that were doing well economically were already good before they went in. The ones that are rubbish now, were rubbish went they went in as well.

[Rogi]

CT,

Given that the "EU standards and requirements" which you seem to hold on a pedestal, are the benchmarks that Macedonia's economy must meet in order to be ready for EU membership, what are the benefits, at that point, of joining the EU?

The question of whether a hypothetically immediate EU membership will benefit Macedonia economically, is an easy one - it will be disastrous for Macedonia.

The question you seem to be asking is whether EU membership will benefit Macedonia in a decade from now, when Macedonia's economy meets those standards and requirements you prize and is capable of competing with the EU, so as to be ready to compete with the EU from within. At that point, the question is, what is the economic benefit of membership there on in?

Since your question is based on such a hypothetical scenario which takes place a decade from now, nobody can purport to know the answer, it would all be speculation and as much as previous examples of membership may provide some level of insight, nobody knows what the world will look like in a decade, let alone specific economic benefits of a trade union come political union.

[Currency Trader]

Originally Posted by Currency Trader
Sweden is in the EU: look at their economic situation.

Danmark too: Look at their inflation

Ditto for Germany, Austria, Netherlands.


How about some objectivity and the fact that there are 27 EU members? You just counted 5.

RTG said:

In fact, what you are stating is a compelling argument that nothing changes once you get into the EU.

Shed some more light on what you mean? What does not change or contribute if you're an EU member?

The above countries are part of EU - Some people are less than objective when speaking of economic performance of EU members. They mention only Spain, Portugal, Bulgaria and Greece.


.

[Pelister]

What another clever piece of propoganda CurrencyTrader.

The E.U is irrelevant.

1. Because it demands we change our name
2. It offers nothing (financially) we cannot easily achieve through free trade agreements, and bilateral agreements for increased direct foriegn investment (as the last few years have shown)
3. Because its corrupt.
4. Because E.U money is funding the propaganda war against the Macedonians
5. Because it refuses to support Macedonian human rights, in Bulgaria. In fact it through the case out.

Take all of this important context out of your mischievous heading "Can Macedonia benefit from it?" and all Macedonians are left with is more of your bullshit UMD propaganda for a continuation of the 'negotiations', even though the Macedonian people are against it. Its 'high end' propagandists like yourself that have been skrewing the Macedonians over, for a century now. You may as well be working for the Greeks.

[DirtyCodingHabitz]

Oh great the troll is back. So why don't they want to give all European Union countries a referendum if they still want to be in the EU?

[Risto the Great]

Sweden is in the EU: look at their economic situation.

Danmark too: Look at their inflation

Ditto for Germany, Austria, Netherlands.


How about some objectivity and the fact that there are 27 EU members? You just counted 5.


.

In fact, what you are stating is a compelling argument that nothing changes once you get into the EU.

[George S.]

CT macedonia will not benefit from the eu overall when one considers the handouts the exploitation of a country's resources,the employment factor,the huge deficit that will follow
will make it all prohibitive.On the surface it sounds like it's utopia nice & simple but short term gain long term loss.That's why countries rethink why they joined in the first place.The politicians & economists think that there is pie in the sky & keep painting a rosy picture it's not as rosy as it looks.Macedonia will be worse offmprice wise,value wise,It doesnot make sense to join as it's economy will not be sheltered from the eu economic storm.Once your'e in your in & the damage will follow.Macedonia if you value your sovereignity & freedom do not join stupid organizations like the EU making stupid requests to join by compromising one's name or identity.
Macedonia can find enough trading partners on it's own there is more prosperity & economic gain being on their own than there is by joinng the eu.It's all not working out as planned as the eu is going to eventually implode from within.THe ones that join will carry the can of economic loss in terms of deficit at their peril.Ct one need to think outside the square for a change.In the real world not everything is equal least of all theso called economic benefits of joining the eu.

[Onur]

The UKIP is not exactly a big party of UK. Although, countries do have populations that are not too excited with EU in light of recent negligence of state finances.

There are more powerful anti-EU parties in other countries too. Like the new major opposition party in Finland. The major opposition party in Hungary is also talking about leaving EU. Anti-EU, far right party of Le Pen is leading the polls in France. Austrian far right party is also leading the votes there and they are usually anti-EU again. Also no one can deny that anti-EU parties are rising literally in every EU countries. It`s because Europeans are sick of EU concept anymore.

As for the membership vote by populations, there have been countries that made referendums. EU got a fairly big vote from eastern European countries

Ohh yeah, just like the referendums in Ireland who voted for "NO" two times and then forced to organize 3rd referendum back to back just to get 51% "YES" for EU and then they took it in 3rd one. Thats what i call democracy