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Originally posted by ramo
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Ramo, can you please provide a link?If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams -
I have confirmed with the macedonian ziteli that they have lost faith in gruevski.THey confirm rxactly what tom is saying.Gruevski is a liar and is continually selling out on macedonia.It is losing ground by capitulations and proctastinations to yhe likes of the uck.No wonder he is also negotiating our name with our enemies."Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
GOTSE DELCEVComment
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Couldn't find a webpage containing the audio or transcripts from the conversations,so this is taken from SDSM's Youtube channel:
”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
― George OrwellComment
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DraganOfStip provided the audio recording.Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
I would like to comment on this matter. In 2002 a law was passed that gave amnesty to the people involved in war conflict in Macedonia in 2001. Most of the people in Macedonia were against, but the politician agreed to this so the UCK terrorists can lay down their arms. This was voted by the macedonian and albanian political parties. But there were 4 cases in which 12 macedonians were kidnapped, torchured and some killed brutally by the albanian terrorists (including timed bomb tied to one man body). Hague international court gave these cases to the Macedonian courts.
Later another law was voted, (Authentic interpreting of the "Law for amnesty of UCK fighters") which closed these cases which involved crimes against humanity. We hear that gruevski is the main promoter of this amnesty of the people involved in crimes against humanity so he can rule in peace later and have personal gain (So far we knew that he signed this which did not made him any less traitor).
One thing is important in case like this. The brainwashing pro government media brutally manipulated this fact. They published listings of people in the parliament that vote for the law in 2002 which did not gave amnesty to these people and not the listing of the law voted in 2011 in which all vmro parliament members together with the ethnic albanian members of parliament voted this law. These brainwashing media did not even attempt to hide the fact that the so called patriotic party vmro voted this law from 2011 but manipulated that sdsm members also voted this law, which they (media) knew that it is absolutely 100 % false. So now (combined with the fact that still no audio recordings are released on these shit propaganda media) we have a situation when many Macedonian citizen still have no idea what was going on and they heard only sdsm in negative context on TV, vmro was not even mentioned. From what was published, this is the list of people that gave amnesty to these people who commited crimes against humanity on macedonians.
The names i recognize in this list, all vmro members voted YES and all sdsm voted NO. This does not mean that sdsm didn't do this only for personal political gain, but means that vmro are obedient people that listen to their leader anyway no matter how bad decision he makes. I personally think that if gruevski says there will be name change, 70 percent of everyday supporters will be obedient and 95 percent of vmro parliament members as well).Last edited by ramo; 04-07-2015, 03:13 PM.Comment
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Exactly,they knew that whether they vote "yea" or "nay" wouldn't make any difference because the ruling coalition had more than enough votes to pass the law without SDSM's votes,so they just wanted to add some political points from the people.Originally posted by ramo View Post
A trick used by many oposition parties everywhere.
DPMNE's membership and support has grown rapidly since their coming to power in 2006,mostly due to state company employments of party members and subsequently family members of those members voting for them as act of gratitude and/or in order for the person in question to keep that job.So,most of the post 2006 members are members that vote and support DPMNE because of that and ONLY that.but means that vmro are obedient people that listen to their leader anyway no matter how bad decision he makes
I bet more than 50% of DPMNE members have never read the party statute or program,and when they go to party meetings they play Candy Crush on their smartphones in order to pass their time.They simply rally on party meetings in the campaign throughout the republic waving the party flag,wearing party shirts ,booing when SDSM is mentioned and cheering when Grujo mentions his "deeds" for their country because they have to,not because they want to.
I personally know a married couple that joined Dzingo's Socialist party (the "sunflower on-duty" throughout the transition period,always in coalition with any ruling party in every government so far) a while ago and now they both have a state job - the guy works in the local prison and his wife was recently employed as a full-time nurse in the hospital.
They're both very opened that they have no clue what the party program is,just appearing on party meetings to get their names checked (proving they attended the meeting) and only joined the party because of employment.
But they also have to bring their immediate family members out to vote and so the party has additional votes and this is the apparatus that keeps DPMNE in power all this time.
Here I disagree.I personally think that if gruevski says there will be name change, 70 percent of everyday supporters will be obedient and 95 percent of vmro parliament members as well).
Doing that would be a political suicide and I don't think Macedonian people will fall so low to obey such a thing.
They have turned a blind eye to too many of Gruevski's wrongdoings and I think that would be the last drop.Last edited by DraganOfStip; 04-07-2015, 04:50 PM.”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
― George OrwellComment
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Thanks Dragan.Originally posted by DraganOfStip View PostIf my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John AdamsComment
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What do we have as an alternative to gruevski is it any better??
ddsm is not any better.Only an alternative party withtraditional views would be helpfull.
What fo m e mbers feel?"Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
GOTSE DELCEVComment
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Audio file of tapped phone calls from today's press conference held in Bitola,along with the transcripts:
Last edited by DraganOfStip; 04-08-2015, 08:26 AM.”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
― George OrwellComment
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I can't find the other thread but it looks like the pipeline is official.
A pentalateral ministerial meeting initiated by the Hungarian Foreign Ministry was held in Budapest, on the issue of the future energy supply of the Central and South-East European region. The Foreign Affairs Ministers of Serbia, Greece and Macedonia and the Minister for EU Affairs of Turkey were welcomed by Hungarian PM Viktor Orbán on Tuesday morning in the Parliament. After the ministerial talks the sides have signed a joint declaration on strengthening the energy cooperation in the region. The representatives of the participating states – Volkan Bozkır, Ivica Dačić, Nikos Kotzias, Nikola Poposki and Péter Szijjártó – have agreed that cooperation in ensuring energy supply security contributes to the good neighbourly relations between their countries and to the welfare of the citizens.
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This is one of the main propagandists of the government he is reporter, has a show on one of the national brainwashing tv stations and very often highest government representatives are his guests. He is cursing everyone that is not supporting this government and publicly asks for burial of all non supporters. He is pretending to be super patriot and asks jail for everyone that he himself pronounces traitor. This is his interview on one australian macedonian radio station i think from 2011 (from the video upload date) about the name change. I am off-topic by i just want to show how propaganda tv in macedonia works and how they manipulate the bugging scandal and choose who is patriot and who is traitor.
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Documents show British Ambassador directly involved in Macedonia coup scandal
The UK Ambassador to Macedonia, Charles Garrett is directly involved in the Macedonian coup scandal, MoI documents show.
SDSM leader Zoran Zaev mentiones the British Ambassador by his initials (C.G) in numerous conversation with ex counter intelligence boss Zoran Verushevski who is currently detained.
What makes it even more perplexing is the fact that Charles Garrett in a recent interview for Dnevnik stated his support for Zaev, even offering 'advice' to the Government to start negotiations and admit the man who has broke virtually every treason law in the country.
MINA's source in Skopje stated the Brits are not alone in this rather there are other Governments involved, which explains why Zaev has still not being detained. "EU and NATO intelligence services consider Macedonia to be their own country, walk around freely and wiretap virtually anyone they wish 24/7 as showcased by Zaev.
The Macedonian Government knows very well the US and UK are behind Zaev. We see who the targets were. Zaev through his handlers first tried to destroy the country from the inside, and when that didn't work tried to destroy Macedonia's good relationship with China and Israel. Both Gruevski and Ivanov have zero power to do anything, it's quite embarrassing" says our source adding "every single Macedonian citizen knows who Zaev's handlers are".
23 years later, Macedonia has yet to be governed by individuals that would take care of our national interests. Macedonia, unfortunately doesn't have a Milos Zeman who would have kicked out the British Ambassador to the curb the first second his name came up on Zaev's confiscated documents. How often do you see foreign Ambassador(s) financially helping an opposition leader to oust democratically elected Government, even offering him safe passage to their respective countries if he gets caught?!?
Unfortunately, Macedonia doesn't have Zeman-like leader, as a result Garrett and his puppet Zaev will continue to go about their business unimpeded. //Gorazd Velkovski
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Quite often really (off the record,of course).Originally posted by Nikolaj View Post
The United States have done many similar things throughout the world to place men of trust in power,high percentage of which turned into dictators.
Noriega,Pinochet,Bautista,Banzer to name a few,also supported others such as Franco and Salazar.
if Grujo doesn't suit them here,then maybe they're training Zaev to be their next puppet.”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
― George OrwellComment
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How can anyone trust a man such as Zaev... the man would sell his soul just to run the government.
That is not the type of person i would want to take over IMO.Verata vo Mislite, VMRO vo dushata, Makedonia vo Srceto.
Vnatreshna Makedonska Revolucionerna Organizacija.Comment
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The EU's reaction to the latest political crisis in Macedonia crisis has been very slow, and gives the impression that the EU seems out of touch with reality on the ground, writes Erwan Fouéré.
Erwan Fouéré is Associate Senior Research Fellow at the Centre for European Policy Studies (CEPS) and former ambassador to Ukraine. The op-ed was first published on the CEPS website.
The European Commission's Progress Report on Macedonia published last year contained a clear warning to the government that failure to address the growing concerns over the politicisation of state institutions as well as the independence of the judiciary and freedom of expression would result in a withdrawal of the recommendation for opening negotiations.
Six months later, not only has the government done nothing to address the Report's findings, but the political situation has dramatically deteriorated. It is no exaggeration to suggest that of all the problems in the Balkan region, the case of Macedonia and the worsening crisis in the country is the most problematic and also the most acute. It is an example of how one should never take anything for granted in the Balkans – a positive narrative one day can become a nightmare scenario the next.
This crisis also raises serious questions as to whether the EU is doing enough to deploy its foreign policy instruments in dealing with the situation at political level as well as to ensure effective follow-up to its Progress Report recommendations by the government.
In 2005, Macedonia was regarded as a success story in overcoming inter-ethnic tensions and promoting courageous reforms – an effort the EU rewarded by granting candidate status for EU accession. Today it is a country governed by fear and intimidation with a ruling party, whose ethno-nationalist and populist agenda has created new fault lines in an already-fragile environment.
The Prime Minister, Nikola Gruevski, and his ruling party (VMRO-DPMNE – The Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organisation –Democratic Party for Macedonian National Unity) have pursued a systematic campaign against all those who openly criticise the regime. The country has the worst record in media freedom in the Balkan region; the latest Reporters without Borders index ranks Macedonia in 123rd place, just above Angola, a drop of almost 90 places from 2009, when it was ranked in 34th place.
Perhaps most alarming are the deep tensions that have reopened between the ethnic Albanian community, comprising 25% of the population (according to the 2002 census), and the main Macedonian community, with a level of mistrust not seen since the bloody conflict of 2001, when several hundred people were killed. Much of this increased mistrust is due to the divisive policies of the ruling party and a lack of sensitivity for inter-ethnic relations (the controversial Skopje 2014 urban renewal project being the most visible example).
The latest crisis to rock the country is the revelation of a vast wiretapping operation providing evidence of alleged corruption by a government that seems to ignore due process and operates by its own rules. The voices on the released tapes are clearly recognisable, and include conversations between the Prime Minister and several Ministers and other senior officials, not least the chief of the state security, Saso Mijalkov, who also happens to be the cousin of Gruevski.
The Prime Minister, while not denying the authenticity of the conversations, claims that the tapes were doctored and that those responsible for the wiretapping operation are foreign intelligence services, which he has refused to identify. He has accused Zoran Zaev, the leader of the opposition party SDSM (Social Democratic Union of Macedonia), who has been releasing the tapes to the public in a series of press conferences over the past two months, of plotting a coup against the government. Zaev has been charged with espionage and has had his passport revoked.
The reaction from the EU to this latest crisis has been very slow and initially limited to expressions of 'serious concern', and calls for an “independent and transparent investigation”.
This statement gave the impression that the EU seemed out of touch with reality on the ground, in addition to being inconsistent with the findings of the Progress Report, which had itself raised concerns over the independence of the judicial process.
The Commissioner, Johannes Hahn, paid his first long-scheduled visit to Skopje on 17 February 2015. This was more than two weeks after the Prime Minister had accused the leader of the opposition with espionage. Yet the Commissioner made no reference to the wiretapping scandal during his visit, and confined his remarks to expressions of hope for the country's progress on the EU perspective.
The focus has now shifted to a mediation effort by a delegation from the European Parliament at the request of the Commissioner. The delegation is composed of the Rapporteur for Macedonia Ivo Vajgl, the former Rapporteur Richard Howitt, and Eduard Kukan, a member of the European Peoples Party (of which the VMRO-DPMNE party is a member).
The first meeting which brought together in Brussels representatives from both the ruling party and the opposition took place on March 30th; a further meeting is scheduled for some time later this month (after the Orthodox Easter). However, if past experience is anything to go by, it is doubtful that such a mediation effort with only periodic meetings spread over several months has much chance of success.
It is clear that the only way out of this crisis is for a much more robust and direct involvement of the EU – both the European Commission and the European External Action Service (EEAS), which has been largely silent up to now . The Foreign Affairs Council at its next meeting should also focus on the crisis before it deteriorates further.
The EU should push for an independent investigation of the wiretapping, with the participation of respected international personalities, which would have the power to call witnesses. Leaving this to the current Public Prosecutor would have no credibility in view of the many cases of direct interference by the ruling party in the judicial system. Several of the released wiretapped conversations relate to alleged government interference in judicial proceedings as well as in judicial appointments, giving further credence to the relevant findings of the European Commission's Progress Report.
The serious and repeated failings of the government in its reform record as reflected in successive Progress Reports, and in its management of the electoral process as reflected in successive OSCE/ODIHR election observation reports, point to a government that has lost all credibility. The setting up of a transitional government, which would prepare for a proper electoral process, is probably the only solution to overcome the crisis. This would help to restore some basic legitimacy to the institutions of the state and a restoration of the rule of law. To assist in this transitional process, the EU should consider the appointment of a Special Representative with political clout who would be deployed for a fixed period.
The EU, and in particular the European Commission, also needs to reconsider its overall approach in dealing with the situation in the country. By continuing to insist in its last two Progress Reports that "the country sufficiently meets the political criteria", despite the eruption of violence in the Parliament in December 2012, and many other serious shortcomings in its reform record, it will have given the Prime Minister and his ruling party the impression that they can continue to act with impunity.
If the EU lets this latest scandal pass, it will be a serious failure of leadership on its part and that of the member states.
It would also be a terrible blow for government accountability and respect for the rule of law in the Balkan region, and would undermine the EU's own policy of putting the rule of law at the heart of its enlargement policy.
There are undoubtedly reasons to explain the apparent lack of attention to and even understanding on the part of the EU on the severity of the situation in Macedonia, one of them being the low priority given to enlargement in many EU member states. A common refrain is that so long as there is stability in the region, whatever problems there are will sort themselves out.
This is a dangerous assumption. Maintaining stability at the expense of the rule of law and government accountability is a sure recipe for failure in the long term. It is time for the EU to use all the foreign policy instruments at its disposal to address in a more decisive manner the crisis in Macedonia, not only for the sake of the country and its people, but also because of the potential impact in the broader region.Verata vo Mislite, VMRO vo dushata, Makedonia vo Srceto.
Vnatreshna Makedonska Revolucionerna Organizacija.Comment
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Small part of todays bomb. Reporter from national tv channel and high ranked official from vmro are speaking about setting up scandal about opposition member director of high school. They are speaking about showing photos of him together with underage girls in swimming pool on the news.
This was main news on the news some time ago. After that it turned out that the man was photographed with his daughters.
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