Macedonian Elections - 2020

[Carlin]

Ignoring the coalitions I think the (full) breakdown would be as follows:

DPMNE - 44
SDSM - 42
DUI - 15
Alliance for Albanians - 8
BESA - 4
Alternativa - 4
Levica - 2
DPA - 1

[Soldier of Macedon]

....there might even need to be new elections.

I thought that too. Then I thought about how they passed an illegitimate referendum that had less than 40% turnout. There will be a lot of EU pressure (talk about election interference!) on SDS/BESA and DUI to form a government and validate these elections. Those two groups alone would have the required 61 seats to do so. SDS/BESA need DUI, there is no other way because AA/A and DPA don't have enough and Apasiev reiterated that he has no interest in discussing anything with Zaev.

The only other option is that which you alluded to earlier, with DPNE and DUI joining forces. But they will need 2 more seats. Do they go with Levica, who have been adamant about fighting against the name change? Will Levica remain true to its word and shame DPNE into positive action? Or does DPNE just go full retard and solicit the support of both DUI and AA/A (provided those two can get past their own differences), which will take them well and truly across the line?

So few options, none of them great. Most of them terrible. At this point another election sounds good.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Ignoring the coalitions I think the (full) breakdown would be as follows:

DPMNE - 44
SDSM - 42
DUI - 15
Alliance for Albanians - 8
BESA - 4
Alternativa - 4
Levica - 2
DPA - 1

It would be interesting to know how much votes the traitors Georgievski, Boskoski and Angelov received and if their benefactor will afford them any seats in the parliament, should they succeed in forming a government.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Here is Mickoski's pal Drskoski or whatever his name his, reading out the final tally of votes for each party.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiX6xCgBJpo

[Risto the Great]

Imagine an sdsm and dpmne coalition formed out of desperation about the plight of Macedonia.

I don't know why anyone is bothering with this. It's clearly being rorted. Best that can be done now is to inflame and shame the population into action.

[Carlin]

It's likely there may be yet another "early" elections in the future considering the current composition of the parliament and the possibility of any coalition being unstable. Prior to any coalition being formed though, we'll see how long the the upcoming "negotiations" will take to actually form of the new coalition.

Бојкотот и разединетоста кај Македонците го зголемија бројот на пратеници Албанци во Собранието

URL:

https://republika.mk/vesti/makedonija/bojkotot-i-razedinetosta-kaj-makedoncite-go-zgolemija-brojot-na-pratenici-albanci-vo-sobranieto/

Парламентарните избори завршија со сличен исход како тие во 2016 година, само со променети улоги. Разликата во пратеници е иста, само сега во корист на СДСМ. Но, она што е различно е што и ВМРО-ДПМНЕ и СДСМ загубија пратеници на свое конто.

Ако пред четири години, разликата беше 51-49 , сега таа е 46-44 за владејачката партија. Тоа им дава право и двете партии да се чуствуваат како губитници.Вистинските победници на овие избори се партиите на Албанците.

Тие го зголемија бројот на пратеници во однос на минатите барем за десетина и сега ќе имаат околу 30 пратеници во Собранието. Конкретно, ДУИ во 2016 година имаше десет пратеници а сега има 15. Алијанса на минатите избори имаше само тројца пратеници а сега ќе има 12. И Беса ќе има повеќе пратеници поради коалцијата со СДСМ иако таа стои најслабо во поддршка кај гласачите Албанци.

Тоа секако е дозволено, но е речиси неверојатно со толкава мала излезност во албанските средини во шестата и во втората изборна единици да се зголеми бројот на пратеници.

Причината за слабата излезност кај Албанците е што и и кај нив има големо иселување но и тоа што поради короната не допатуваа голем број на „сигурни гласачи“ од дијаспората.

Друга причина за зголемениот број на пратеници Албанци е големата разединетост кај гласачите Македонци. Тие наместо да гласаат масовно се одлучија или за бојкот на изборите или пак гласаа за некоја од помалите партии што се покажа како загубен глас.

Затоа сега ДУИ е во најкомотна ситуација и со право може да поставува услови за формирање на Владата. Рака на срце и заслужија.

За да го знаеме вистинскиот распоред на силите, како кај Македонците, така и кај Албанците потребен е попис на населението кој се најавува неколку години но никако да се реализира бидејќи сите како да се плашат од резултатите и последиците, како на политички така и на етнички план.

[maco2envy]

A very poor effort of covering up this super fraudulent election, yet DPNE like they always do will remain quiet and take it up the ass.

[Carlin]

Does anyone see Mickoski resignation coming soon?

[Soldier of Macedon]

There is a decent chance of that happening if Ahmeti doesn't choose DPNE. Late last year he apparently said "ќе поднесам оставка ако ги загубам изборите и ако не успеам да составам влада". The problem is, what are the political positions of his future replacement? Mickoski had even less integrity on Macedonian issues than Gruevski. If that trend follows, the next clown will be even worse, unless there is a complete overhaul of the party itself, which is long overdue.

[Carlin]

We'll have to wait and see although I don't see him stepping down voluntarily. He's been saying VMRO will form the government.

Going back to the election irregularities and population numbers, this is what an Albanian politician said:

URL:

https://republika.mk/vesti/makedonija/taravari-ako-deneska-se-napravi-popis-kje-izleze-deka-vo-odredeni-mesta-ima-povekje-glasachi-na-dui-otkolku-ziteli/

Таравари: Ако денеска се направи попис, ќе излезе дека во одредени места има повеќе гласачи на ДУИ отколку жители

Шефот на изборниот штаб од Алијансата за Албанците, Арбен Таравари, во изјава за новинската агенција ИНА вели дека ќе достават десетици приговори до Државната изборна комисија за гласањето во Долнени, Пласница, Битола и во Кичево.

Имаме чисти случаи на изборен фалсификат, кој се случуваше од 19 часот до 21 часот. Токму во тој момент се прави несфатливата разлика во резултатите. Местењето придонесе ДУИ во Долнени да добие 2 200 гласа, а ние само 200, во Пласница резултатот е 2 000 за нив 100 за нас, што е надвор од умот. Има навистина многу вакви случаи – вели Таравари.

Според него, доколку денеска се направи попис, ќе излезе дека има повеќе гласачи на ДУИ отколку луѓе што живеат во одредени места.

Ова се случува во Кичево. Разликата е толкава што се коси со здравиот разум. Или на одредени избирачки места во Битола, каде што има многу малку или воопшто нема гласачи Албанци, а ДУИ има стотици гласови. ‘Силувањето’ на гласовите е практика која ДУИ ја повторува во секој изборен циклус. Тоа е знак за тоа колку сме далеку од демократија – оценува Арбен Таравари.


Is this just sour grapes? Possibly. I'm sure the Albanians themselves know in detail the population numbers though (and "depopulation") in their communities so I'm sure when Taravari complains that certain voting districts have results "contrary to common sense" something fishy likely took place. Most concerning would be if "DUI" voters were "bussed in" during the time of covid-19. One of the demands that DUI might make of SDSM (if it hasn't happened already) is to "massage" the census law rules and regulations - and pass those changes into law, prior to the census taking place.

Let's remind ourselves of the laundry list of conditions of DUI, for forming the new government (story published on July 4, 2020). I'll limit it to the "Top 5":
- Прв премиер Албанец
- Основање на Висок суд за еднаквост (во првите 100 дена од новата Влада)
- Промена на Законот за Владата зсоадолжително гласање со Бадентер(двотретинско мнозинство) за капитални инвестиции (во првите 100 дена)
- Промена на Законот за основно образование за задолжително изучување на албански јазик од петто одделение за сите ученици во земјата (во првите 100 дена)
- Донесување на Закон за задолжителен ветинг во сите јавни институции (првите 100 дена)

Osmani said that DUI will not give up these demands and that they will be a condition for their participation in the future government.

URL:

https://ako.mk/%d0%b4%d1%83%d0%b8-%d1%9c%d0%b5-%d1%83%d1%81%d0%bb%d0%be%d0%b2%d1%83%d0%b2%d0%b0-%d1%84%d0%be%d1%80%d0%bc%d0%b8%d1%80%d0%b0%d1%9a%d0%b5-%d0%b2%d0%bb%d0%b0%d0%b4%d0%b0-%d1%81%d0%be-%d0%bf%d1%80%d0%b5/

Now, this is just in - Grubi: "We are ready for cooperation with SDSM, but only if Naser Ziberi is Prime Minister":

https://plusinfo.mk/grubi-spremni-sme-za-sorabotka-so-sdsm-no-samo-ako-naser-ziberi-e-premier/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=54594107169a2306a5911ee04cb9edf20588555c-1595005994-0-AcwKqo4VY_RG5Hz9-mLdRnkIgs0jaDPHVsVX0MXeh_d2oRPlslFoHYK9hndnL2VqrYfHl8_FcQmh3XdUL4Ay1Lwldn-B_4QIQTraBR2Khyo8PGnJH6RW9Tb0L8YxWigiPGD9mSbF5olautzBjQtQHsXlSy0HFA5A5t0Ib-nBtO48b1YwPw1R1Vv1yCQFID1fSX5jy07VVCJK1m6KnCyS5OyL325HYnT66dItZaxLkFM5GvqLM6CqTcj07yxqUI3_kFpVN1fCd9Qo14a7RwMd3oOPN3gKx_IXRGy8pCPCLvYSP7U0eec8-N79L2mGJ0RLRDQaCzictP0mjCqptvq5GdSwGCQQ3uVxm1D_QnIHA2qrm--Lgo1FdrcFPBPl4hVZ5w

[Soldier of Macedon]

Osmani said that DUI will not give up these demands and that they will be a condition for their participation in the future government........Now, this is just in - Grubi: "We are ready for cooperation with SDSM, but only if Naser Ziberi is Prime Minister"

Based on those statements, it seems that at this time they're more interested in turning Macedonia into another Kosovo first, then afterwards being servants of the EU. No big surprise. Honestly, I don't think the other conditions bother Zaev, given that he doesn't care about Macedonia in any case. He is only interested in retaining the lead role of the country as PM and DUI knows this. If they can get him to agree on everything else (in which case, Macedonia is even more screwed than it is now, if that was even possible), they may soften their stance on the PM role.

We'll have to wait and see although I don't see him stepping down voluntarily. He's been saying VMRO will form the government.

I don't think he has the same latitude to compromise as much as Zaev, not for a lack of desire, but purely because some of the party members and a lot of their voters still care about Macedonia. On another note, Apasiev has indicated that nobody has reached out to him from DPNE (or the other parties):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAG_zCL67gk

[Soldier of Macedon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJfTZNf2sPE

The self-entitlement of Grubi as he outlines his program, and his pride in the fact that our people have had their identity signed away (according to him, што изгубивте?) like it was some great victory for the country should be an insult to all Macedonians. He simply cannot comprehend or accept any Macedonian government formed without DUI being a part of it. According to him, as DUI has the largest share of the ethnic Albanian vote, they must be in government. However, by that same reasoning, DPNE should've also been afforded the same in previous elections in which they won the majority Macedonian vote, yet did not always become part of the government. DUI have been making overtures to all of the other ethnic Albanian parties to garner support for an ethnic Albanian PM. If this interview is anything to go by, DUI doesn't seem willing to move an inch away from this position and are expecting Zaev or Mickoski (preferably the former) to renege on their previous statements about not accepting an ethnic Albanian PM. And they seem confident about such an outcome. They may even entertain the possibility of another candidate for PM aside from Ziberi - so long as he is an ethnic Albanian. When asked about the possibility of forming a government with DPNE if there is no agreement with SDS, Grubi said that for DUI the red lines are the Prespa Agreement, Ohrid Agreement and the agreement with the Bulgars - there can be no change or going back on these by DPNE. These people like to play the minority card but have a disregard for other minorities. Even when Grubi was talking about the lack of diversity in the national anthem, he mockingly laughed when the interviewer highlighted that Pitu Guli, being a Vlach, is mentioned. At one point, he says that half of the population in the country isn't even Macedonian. He also said that at the next election DUI is going to win big in Macedonian-majority areas of the country. The interviewer also made the point that the current election model with 6 constituencies favours the larger parties. Grubi disagreed and retorted by speaking against diaspora candidates with such few voters having the right to gain seats in the parliament. Anyway, that's the basic summary of the discussion.

Macedonia is full of people who are enemies of the Macedonians. Right now, such people are galvanized. Only common action on a mass scale can begin to reverse the treacherous course that Macedonia is on. For however many real Macedonian patriots remain in Macedonia, they have nearly everybody else against them.

[Gocka]

Macedonians are just dumb villagers that aren't good at anything, politics is no different than all the others things they are incompetent at. We have been here in this moment in every single election cycle as far back as I can remember. The fact that Macedonian politicians can't or refuse to see that because of their own political selfishness they give the Albanians the ability to get massive concession every single cycle is unforgivable. You can't even blame the Albanians, they are better at this than Macedonians are. If Ahmeti was a Macedonian politician in Greece, we would glorify him. Every cycle they get at least one big concession on top of many that are not as visible like more funding for schools and infrastructure in their communities, more government positions, etc.

Macedonians make up 80% of the votes and yet they lose something after every election. We are a country of Borat's and if that never changes then the country will never change either. My wife noticed that one of the SDS candidates was a former school teacher of hers from Struga. She said on top of him being an imbecile in general he was also a pervert. At some point you have to understand that the government is made up of the people, those are the type of people that overwhelmingly make up the country. The self serving mentality you see from politicians is the same you would encounter from your server or shopkeeper.

Its a classic chicken or the egg situation. To get a better government you need better people, both as voters and as the candidates. To get better people you need leaders that are role models that drive the populace to a better place. Something or someone has to break the cycle. As it stands its nothing but a cycle of greed, selfishness, and stupidity and it just so happens that this scenario is very useful to our external enemies and our internal ones.

[Solun]

We'll have to wait and see although I don't see him stepping down voluntarily. He's been saying VMRO will form the government.

Going back to the election irregularities and population numbers, this is what an Albanian politician said:

URL:

https://republika.mk/vesti/makedonija/taravari-ako-deneska-se-napravi-popis-kje-izleze-deka-vo-odredeni-mesta-ima-povekje-glasachi-na-dui-otkolku-ziteli/

Таравари: Ако денеска се направи попис, ќе излезе дека во одредени места има повеќе гласачи на ДУИ отколку жители

Шефот на изборниот штаб од Алијансата за Албанците, Арбен Таравари, во изјава за новинската агенција ИНА вели дека ќе достават десетици приговори до Државната изборна комисија за гласањето во Долнени, Пласница, Битола и во Кичево.

Имаме чисти случаи на изборен фалсификат, кој се случуваше од 19 часот до 21 часот. Токму во тој момент се прави несфатливата разлика во резултатите. Местењето придонесе ДУИ во Долнени да добие 2 200 гласа, а ние само 200, во Пласница резултатот е 2 000 за нив 100 за нас, што е надвор од умот. Има навистина многу вакви случаи – вели Таравари.

Според него, доколку денеска се направи попис, ќе излезе дека има повеќе гласачи на ДУИ отколку луѓе што живеат во одредени места.

Ова се случува во Кичево. Разликата е толкава што се коси со здравиот разум. Или на одредени избирачки места во Битола, каде што има многу малку или воопшто нема гласачи Албанци, а ДУИ има стотици гласови. ‘Силувањето’ на гласовите е практика која ДУИ ја повторува во секој изборен циклус. Тоа е знак за тоа колку сме далеку од демократија – оценува Арбен Таравари.


Is this just sour grapes? Possibly. I'm sure the Albanians themselves know in detail the population numbers though (and "depopulation") in their communities so I'm sure when Taravari complains that certain voting districts have results "contrary to common sense" something fishy likely took place. Most concerning would be if "DUI" voters were "bussed in" during the time of covid-19. One of the demands that DUI might make of SDSM (if it hasn't happened already) is to "massage" the census law rules and regulations - and pass those changes into law, prior to the census taking place.

Let's remind ourselves of the laundry list of conditions of DUI, for forming the new government (story published on July 4, 2020). I'll limit it to the "Top 5":
- Прв премиер Албанец
- Основање на Висок суд за еднаквост (во првите 100 дена од новата Влада)
- Промена на Законот за Владата зсоадолжително гласање со Бадентер(двотретинско мнозинство) за капитални инвестиции (во првите 100 дена)
- Промена на Законот за основно образование за задолжително изучување на албански јазик од петто одделение за сите ученици во земјата (во првите 100 дена)
- Донесување на Закон за задолжителен ветинг во сите јавни институции (првите 100 дена)

Osmani said that DUI will not give up these demands and that they will be a condition for their participation in the future government.

URL:

https://ako.mk/%d0%b4%d1%83%d0%b8-%d1%9c%d0%b5-%d1%83%d1%81%d0%bb%d0%be%d0%b2%d1%83%d0%b2%d0%b0-%d1%84%d0%be%d1%80%d0%bc%d0%b8%d1%80%d0%b0%d1%9a%d0%b5-%d0%b2%d0%bb%d0%b0%d0%b4%d0%b0-%d1%81%d0%be-%d0%bf%d1%80%d0%b5/

Now, this is just in - Grubi: "We are ready for cooperation with SDSM, but only if Naser Ziberi is Prime Minister":
https://plusinfo.mk/grubi-spremni-sm...drcFPBPl4hVZ5w

Taravari openly stating DUI gets more votes than there are actual citizens

Now we know what will happen when the next census takes place

[Soldier of Macedon]

Zaev decided to go on a holiday. Apparently, he will start trying to form a government after Ilinden. A few more weeks. Can we stand the excitement