What's in a name?

[johnMKD]

Hey everybody! First of all, I'm new here and I'd like to say that I hope this forum would be at last a ground of civilised discussion and goodwill between the two sides. So, help me understand your views while understanding also mine.

I currently live in Italy, but I'm 100% Greek, of which 50% Macedonian, 25% Cappadocian and 25% Ionian (Asia Minor).

I just want to ask "What's in a name?" to all of you.
a) The fact that the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia is a part of the wider region of Macedonia is undoubted.
b) The fact that the region has had in the past many influences from Turks, Greeks, Slavs and Bulgarians is also undoubted.
c) The fact that this (referring to b) has generated a multi-cultural entity in the region (of which I also am a part by 50%) is also undoubted.
d) The fact that there is also a language developed over the years in the region is finally also undoubted. Personally, I was also raised speaking some of this language (which is very close to the languages spoken today in the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia and in Bulgaria).

History is something we all know (no matter local propagandas by our own countries). Everyone knows that we cannot be direct descendants from any ancient Greek/Macedonian/Roman etc tribe. This is because over the centuries so many mixtures have occurred in our region, that render this impossible. The reason I'm defining myself as Greek is because my parents (and before them my grandparents) were also defining themselves as Greeks. The same goes for everyone in the region. Everyone is indeed what he or she feels that he or she is.

My question to you concerns the name itself. Why insisting on a name which is Greek by default? Does this imply that you are Greeks too?

I really hope this will open a descent discussion without any bad-names called from either side. My presence here is only to learn and not to start any fight with you guys.

[julie]

johnMKD I suggest you read the posts and threads on this forum.

i find the following quote offensive - My question to you concerns the name itself. Why insisting on a name which is Greek by default? Does this imply that you are Greeks too?

especially after you said Everyone is indeed what he or she feels that he or she is.

The Macedonian name is not Greek by default as you have spouted.
What is Greek? a bullshit made up name, never existed prior to 1830.

If you have come onto this forum so that we can defend our Macedonian name and identity, I suggest you go back to where you came from.
and NO I am not Greek

[Jankovska]

Hey everybody! First of all, I'm new here and I'd like to say that I hope this forum would be at last a ground of civilised discussion and goodwill between the two sides. So, help me understand your views while understanding also mine.

I currently live in Italy, but I'm 100% Greek, of which 50% Macedonian, 25% Cappadocian and 25% Ionian (Asia Minor).

I just want to ask "What's in a name?" to all of you.
a) The fact that the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia is a part of the wider region of Macedonia is undoubted.
b) The fact that the region has had in the past many influences from Turks, Greeks, Slavs and Bulgarians is also undoubted.
c) The fact that this (referring to b) has generated a multi-cultural entity in the region (of which I also am a part by 50%) is also undoubted.
d) The fact that there is also a language developed over the years in the region is finally also undoubted. Personally, I was also raised speaking some of this language (which is very close to the languages spoken today in the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia and in Bulgaria).

History is something we all know (no matter local propagandas by our own countries). Everyone knows that we cannot be direct descendants from any ancient Greek/Macedonian/Roman etc tribe. This is because over the centuries so many mixtures have occurred in our region, that render this impossible. The reason I'm defining myself as Greek is because my parents (and before them my grandparents) were also defining themselves as Greeks. The same goes for everyone in the region. Everyone is indeed what he or she feels that he or she is.

My question to you concerns the name itself. Why insisting on a name which is Greek by default? Does this imply that you are Greeks too?

I really hope this will open a descent discussion without any bad-names called from either side. My presence here is only to learn and not to start any fight with you guys.

How is the name Greek by default?Can you explain how is it? If not than you have no good intentions here and I doubt pepple will be nice to you. And for your information it is not former anything, on this forum it's only REPUBLIC OF MACEDONIA.Greece took by force part of Macedonia over a hundrad years ago. Does that make the name Greek?
If so than why doesn't Greece fight for the Turkish name as well?

[Rogi]

If you are here to learn, then let's start at the top.

Point a) is offensive. The country is known as the Republic of Macedonia, or you may simply refer to it as Macedonia.

Point b) is offensive to me and every other Macedonian on this forum. We are Macedonians and not 'Slavs'.

Perhaps you can edit your post and try again and we'll see if some progress can be made.

Then we can move on to why point c) and point d) are also offensive, and once we get through all this, we can start having a civilised discussion; it is not a civilised discussion when one is being offended from the outset which is the case with your initial post.


Perhaps after all that, we may even discuss what makes you 100% Greek, when by the definition and understanding you are espousing, you are instead 100% Italian.

[Makedonetz]

What makes a name is the history behind it. I dont need nobody to tell me who i am as i know my generation goes back to 6 generations. How do i know? my last name is Grigorovski, my tatko beseh makedonetz, moja babo ye makedonetz, moja pra pra dedo and babo were macedonian my grandmother and her mother have letters and Lira's dating back to the turkish and beyond with macedonian writing and history.

A name has history and blood shed just like every macedonian in this forum....what irks me is some idiot who doesnt know me says your non existant....which i apply yes i am and my family killed them themselves to put people like you out of the way so we can continue.

[Daskalot]

The Administration has been noted about this post, thus I am issuing a warning to John. Continue to negate us and you will be banned. So you are a geographic Macedonian, please tell us if that constitutes a Nationality or even an Ethnicity?

[johnMKD]

julie I'm really sorry if you got offended, which I didn't mean to, if you could read my entire message.

Saying that Macedonia is a Greek name by default is not my own word:
According to Herodotus, both the Dorians and Macedonians descended from the Makednoi tribe. The name of the latter two probably derives from the Doric noun μᾶκος, mākos (Attic and modern Greek μάκρος, mákros and μῆκος, mēkos), meaning "length", and the adjective μακεδνός, makednós, meaning "tall, taper", since both the Macedonians (Makedónes) and their Makednoi tribal ancestors were regarded as tall people. The adjective is used by Homer in Odyssey (7.105f), to describe a tall poplar tree, and by Aristophanes in his comedy the Birds, to describe a wall built around their imaginary city. (c) www.wikipedia.org

As I said before I'm here to learn and not to fight. Is this supposed to be an open discussion forum or not? If the administrators feel that I'm provoking or violating any rules of the forum, they may ban me.

[Daskalot]

We sure will, do not worry about that. Please answer my question.

[johnMKD]

The Administration has been noted about this post, thus I am issuing a warning to John. Continue to negate us and you will be banned. So you are a geographic Macedonian, please tell us if that constitutes a Nationality or even an Ethnicity?

Guys I just tried to open a pragmatic discussion here. I was the first to say that I'm a part of it. I'm part of the region. I'm part of the language. But I have the right to identify myself as Greek,as you are defining your selves as Macedonians.

I'm here to learn! That's why I posted the thread "What's in a name?". As far as I know the name is Greek. Could you please explain to me otherwise?

Ciao.

[julie]

Daskalot asked a question - you are a geographic Macedonian, please tell us if that constitutes a Nationality or even an Ethnicity?

I would also like to know what your answer is to this

[johnMKD]

Daskalot asked a question - you are a geographic Macedonian, please tell us if that constitutes a Nationality or even an Ethnicity?

I would also like to know what your answer is to this

If you are referring to me personally, I can ensure you that I'm a geographic Macedonian (by 50%). My ancestors (as I said before by 50%) have lived in the region of Voden (Edessa) for ever. They have always defined themselves as Macedonians. If that constitutes a Nationality or Ethnicity? You mean if it does to me? How can it?

[Daskalot]

Guys I just tried to open a pragmatic discussion here. I was the first to say that I'm a part of it. I'm part of the region. I'm part of the language. But I have the right to identify myself as Greek,as you are defining your selves as Macedonians.

I'm here to learn! That's why I posted the thread "What's in a name?". As far as I know the name is Greek. Could you please explain to me otherwise?

Ciao.

You have still not answered my question, and you state that you speake the Macedonian language is that my language or are you claiming your Modern Greek as the Macedonian language?

[Jankovska]

The name is not Greek and has never been considered to be seen as Greek. In the time of Philip and Aleksandar the Greeks thought of the Macedonians as barbarians,they were laughing at the Macedonians and would have killed to be associated with this barbarians. Oh but how times change I guess Aleksandar's dream of being recognised by the Greeks to be of the same level finally came true- haha what bullshit.
The name Macedonia existed througout centuries, since anicent times. Actually the name Macedonia was not considered to be a Greek name and was seen as complitley different thing UNTIL Greece BY FORCE took 51% of the Macedonian territory. Greece's problem is not our name, they coudn't care less about us, their problem is that they know what they have done. They still have MACEDONIANS living withing Greek borders (present Greek borders) and they are afraid. I think they should be too, very much so. How come you or any Greek has no reference of MAcedonia being Greek before the Greeks raped our country and killed our people? Where are your references?
This is all you need to know really. Deny and get the hell out of here

[johnMKD]

You have still not answered my question, and you state that you speake the Macedonian language is that my language or are you claiming your Modern Greek as the Macedonian language?

Daskalot I said in my first message that: "Personally, I was also raised speaking some of this language (which is very close to the languages spoken today in the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia and in Bulgaria)." I meant that I could speak some of this language, ie. words of it...probably with a different accent than you guys.

[Daskalot]

If you are referring to me personally, I can ensure you that I'm a geographic Macedonian (by 50%). My ancestors (as I said before by 50%) have lived in the region of Voden (Edessa) for ever. They have always defined themselves as Macedonians. If that constitutes a Nationality or Ethnicity? You mean if it does to me? How can it?

Good, you are neither Nationally or Ethnically Macedonian, we are. You are Greek in both regards. Problem solved, please note your Government about this.