Letter of Macedonians from 1905 to Europe: Greeks made ​​horrors unheard of in world

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  • The LION will ROAR
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 3231

    Letter of Macedonians from 1905 to Europe: Greeks made ​​horrors unheard of in world

    Letter of Macedonians from 1905 to Europe: Greeks made ​​horrors unheard of in world history!




    Google Translator:-

    We, the entire population, we appeal to chovekoljubivata and humane Europe appeal to civilization, which, we believe, can not find povarvarski scenes worthy of the Middle Ages, we appeal to the European public opinion, and we appeal to all nature and all patrons of enslaved peoples and loudly declare that we want human rights and human life or death! "

    These messages are written now, after another shameful decision of the European administration in relation to Macedonia. In these messages Macedonians complain about the behavior of Europe, the civilized countries of tolerating this behavior Greeks. In 1905


    It is a massacre Macedonian Zagoricani on March 25 in 1905 when they were brutally killed 62 villagers, children, women elders from Greek andrati when houses were burned, injured people ... The massacre orchestrated Kostur Metropolitan Germanos Karavangelis, the whole Greek life to the conquest of Macedonia from Greece and extermination of its population in that area.

    The quote above is from a letter from the surviving villagers Zagoricani sent to the Austrian and Russian Consul in Bitola.

    This massacre is considered one of the beginnings of ethnic cleansing in southern Macedonia, which now belongs to Greece. Two years before, the suppression of the Ilinden Uprising, the Ottoman army, which had orders to burn Zagoricani, with all its cruelty killed three times less villagers Greek gangs.

    Here the Italian Colonel Albert, the Italian army officer who participated in many battles with wild African tribes, wrote the killings Zagoricani. "Often our soldiers are going to be captured and killed Africans. But killing with such ferocity not seen before and I can not find words that would describe those who did this crime. " He, along with his colleague Munnery, Austrian Consul Prohaska and Russian Consul Kalj, when they arrived in Zagoricani day or two after the crime, had put his hands on the person unable to believe what they see. Defaced bodies, cut his throat, stabbed eyes rasporeni breasts, severed hands and feet ... is only a small part of the descriptions of witnesses to this heinous act.

    They say the fire in the village by far the observations and Karavangelis reading that prayer, I wondered if others flame is reduced or increased at any discount kleknuval and prayed for the success of the work.

    Today this village is called Vasilias, in free translation would Tsarskoye Selo. It got its name in 1928.

    Here is the letter of the population of the village. Zagoricani the March 28, 1905 he wrote to the Russian and Austrian consul for the beastly slaughter of the villagers.


    By Messrs. Russian and Austrian Consul

    On 25 March in the dark dawn a Greek gang of about 200 men attacked our village from all sides. First heard playing trumpet and then started thundering guns "mauzerki". Population, thinking that our village is surrounded by the army not moving from their seats and froze the strong thunderstorms and dinamitnite bombs thrown at various places and bullets, as that city sosipaa over the roofs of frozen villagers nepoddrzhuvani of nowhere. With great power, not robbers gave the unfortunate peasants time to recover, and so entered the village divided into small bands of 4 to 8 souls [...] Oh, my God!! The pen is none effect to describe the horrors, atrocities they dzveroliki people armed from head to toe. They committed atrocities unheard of before in the history of mankind. They started to break the door and enter the house, kill and collect everything you isprecheshe before their bloodthirsty eyes. No reason murdered men, women and children and domestic animals. In those critical hours was a lamentation for everybody! Helpless population, obsessed by terror, ran through the streets and frantically sought refuge to hide from bullets and blade to those devotees of "vandalism"! Anyone who fell into their merciless hands was tragically killed! Neither pleas nor prekrstuvanjata, no tears, kisses the women nor their tears pisocite small and innocent children, no cash prizes, which the robbers are readily accepted - nothing was able to soften and appease the stone heart of those barbarians . The first request was "money", second, lined in a row, and finally death - violent, horrible death, inhuman death, death Martyr!!!

    All of us will become a victim of malice Greek, Greek fanaticism, whose leader is the Greek Metropolitan Kostur (George Karavangelis), you arrive at a military detachment. The emergence of the small military detachment robbers were scattered and the rest of us are saved from certain death. The intent of these paid killers was to destroy the entire village, but providence saved us!!!

    After doing a little time (robbers opened fire at 10 and a half hours' alaturka ". Asker appeared in 1 hour and one and a half hour battle in 2 and a half hours, the gang pull) while robbers went on a rampage in our village were carried crimes whose scale is clearly visible from the tables that are attached.

    After all gorekazhano clearly see what is our life - a life of suffering, life unbearable, living in constant alert! We, the entire population, we appeal to chovekoljubivata and humane Europe appeal to civilization, which, we believe, can not find povarvarski scenes worthy of the Middle Ages, we appeal to the European public opinion, and we appeal to all nature and all patrons of enslaved peoples and loudly declare that we want human rights and human life or death!

    We demand the punishment of the culprits and security of human life and human rights!

    The entire population of Zagoricani

    (The letter was published in the anthology "Russian documents about Macedonia and the Macedonian Question (1859-1918)", published by the Archives of Macedonia)
    The Macedonians originates it, the Bulgarians imitate it and the Greeks exploit it!
  • George S.
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 10116

    #2
    Articles like these should be archived""etter of Macedonians from 1905 to Europe: Greeks made ​​horrors unheard of in world history!"".It brings home what was really going on.The greeks were desroying the macedonian nation call it genocide cleansing etc.The greeks has committed so many attrocities & the world doesn't even know about them.
    "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
    GOTSE DELCEV

    Comment

    • Amphipolis
      Banned
      • Aug 2014
      • 1328

      #3
      Moving the conversation here.

      Originally posted by Karposh View Post
      I purposely gave you an unbiased, first-hand account from someone who lived during that time, explicitly focusing on his opinion about the difference in the methods employed by the Greeks and the Macedonians of that era.
      And I sent you back something that is summarizing; it is in English and has names, ages, dates, mutilations, children etc. I don’t know how truthful it is, but that’ what I could find in 15 minutes.

      Originally posted by Karposh View Post
      Whereas IMRO had a code of conduct, entrenched in their internal rules and statutes of the organisation (where members were tried and executed if they breached those rules), the Greeks were out for blood only and to instil fear among the Macedonian population in order to force them back into the patriarchate fold. Those who refused would either die resisting or flee the future Greek lands. The bloodthirsty Greek bands didn't mind either way.
      LMFO. Do you really believe that? That your savage murderers were better than our savage murderers? Did they really have such noble rules? So, the guys who killed those monks and then cut their heads, opened the mouths and defecated in them must have broken many rules.

      Originally posted by Karposh View Post
      So you see, it's not complicated at all. Your makedonomachoi behaved like complete savages while IMRO operated within a set code of conduct and explicit organisational statutes, one of which was that civilian populations were never to be targeted. This is made clear from what the English Consul wrote in his letter to the English Embassy in Turkey - IMRO targeted Macedonian traitors and spies who worked for the Greek church and informed of their whereabouts, who in turn informed the Turks while Greeks targeted Macedonian civilian populations.
      ???. Aren’t all the people in the list civilian population? Is “Macedonian traitors and spies who worked for the Greek Church” a synonym for Patriarchists?

      Originally posted by Karposh View Post
      You quoted the first part of my post, while choosing to ignore the second part which should have answered your question in the first place. But, I'm not at all surprised. It's not the first time you have chosen to play dumb and it won't be the last.
      What on earth are you talking about? I did see the second part, I just didn’t quote it, and… sorry… it’s not enough for me to suggest we’re the bad guys and you’re the good ones. And where else did I play dumb?

      Comment

      • Solun
        Member
        • Sep 2012
        • 166

        #4
        There you go Karposh, Amphilopis had no knowledge whatsoever of what Karavangelis was really up to. If he had no knowledge then what chance anybody else in Greece having any knowledge?

        Karavangelis will without doubt continue to be revered in Greece as a saintly patriot. He certainly didn't have an easy job. Along with all the Priests sent from the south, they had almost exclusively non Greek speaking parishioners. Karavangelis had his own way of dealing with life in a land with no Greek speakers and we saw that displayed in Zagoricani.

        Amphilopis produced a Greek text book translated and printed in London. The text book made mention of over 200 'Greeks' murdered over the course of a 6 year period. I'm not sure if it is any consolation to him, but aside from a handful of priests, those killed would have struggled putting together a sentence in Greek.

        Comment

        • Amphipolis
          Banned
          • Aug 2014
          • 1328

          #5
          Originally posted by Solun View Post
          There you go Karposh, Amphilopis had no knowledge whatsoever of what Karavangelis was really up to. If he had no knowledge then what chance anybody else in Greece having any knowledge?
          LOL, what makes you say that. Karavangelis? I think I've heard the name before. There's probably a discussion here, when my username was Akzion (I was banned).



          That was 2010? How time flies.

          Karavangelis was the Bishop of Kastoria district, there are several threads about the ethnic mix there, or in any district.



          ==
          Last edited by Amphipolis; 01-26-2018, 01:14 AM.

          Comment

          • Solun
            Member
            • Sep 2012
            • 166

            #6
            Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
            LOL, what makes you say that. Karavangelis? I think I've heard the name before. There's probably a discussion here, when my username was Akzion (I was banned).



            That was 2010? How time flies.

            Karavangelis was the Bishop of Kastoria district, there are several threads about the ethnic mix there, or in any district.



            ==
            Of course you've heard the name before, as a national hero, just like everybody else in Greece in has. Were it not for this forum, you would not be informed as to the crimes against humanity he blessed.

            Comment

            • Karposh
              Member
              • Aug 2015
              • 863

              #7
              Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
              LMFO. Do you really believe that? That your savage murderers were better than our savage murderers? Did they really have such noble rules? So, the guys who killed those monks and then cut their heads, opened the mouths and defecated in them must have broken many rules.
              According to Wikipedia:

              War crimes were committed by both sides during the Macedonian struggle. According to a 1900 British report compiled by Alfred Biliotti, who is considered to have heavily relied on Greek intelligence agents, starting from 1897, the members of the Exarchist committees (meaning IMRO. Belonging to the Bulgarian church was not the aim of IMRO but Macedonian freedom and independence, which was to eventually include its own Macedonian church) had embarked upon a systematic and extensive campaign of executions of the leading members of the Greek side (Note: civilian population was not targeted). Moreover, Bulgarian Komitadjis, pursued a campaign of extermination of Greek and Serbian teachers and clergy (i.e. paid agents for spreading propaganda by their respective governments so, fair game. Again, no civilian population is targeted). On the other hand, there were attacks by Greek Andartes on many Macedonian Bulgarian villages, with the aim of forcing their inhabitants to switch their allegiance from the Exarchate back to the Patriarchate and accept Greek priest and teachers, but they also carried out massacres against the civilian population, especially in the central parts of Macedonia in 1905 and in 1906. One of the notable cases was the massacre at the village Zagorichani (today Vasiliada, Greece), which was an aggressive pro-Bulgarian Exarchist (meaning pro-Macedonian) stronghold near Kastoria on 25 March 1905, where between 60 and 78 villagers were killed by Greek bands.

              So, it seems our savages concentrated their attacks on the actual combatants in the “Battle for Macedonia”, spies, traitors and Greek priests who were very active in the campaign to make Greeks out of Macedonians and often pointed out IMRO activists to the Turkish authorities. Yours focused their wrath on the general population.
              In a nutshell, the Greek bands operating within Macedonia, consisted largely of men recruited from Crete, were formed and armed in Greece and led by officers from the Greek army. The bands would threaten non-Patriarchate villages and pressure them to declare themselves as Greeks and accept Patriarchate jurisdiction. Threatening letters were sent to villages to encourage their return to the Patriarchate fold. In one such letter from 1908 sent to the village of Arapli (Solun region), the “Greek Macedonian Defense” states:
              You must understand that your only option for survival is for you to become Greeks…if in the village there are people who are not convinced that you are from a Greek background, then we will teach you…We will burn you and your children, even your pet cats. I will not leave one of you alive…We wait no longer. (Source: “The Contest for Macedonian Identity 1870-1912, by Nick Anastasovski)

              In a similar letter to the village of Nihor (Ber region), dated 19th April 1908:
              I wrote to you previously and have waited until today that you declare yourselves as Greeks. Expecting that you would do so, I have left your village unpunished. But understand well, if within ten days you do not become Greek Orthodox, beware; Bayonets will enter all of you, you will all perish along with your families. If within ten days you do not all become Greeks, do not expect to survive…we will come one night and burn you like mice; we know each of you individually; your only escape will be to flee to Bulgaria. (Source: “The Contest for Macedonian Identity 1870-1912, by Nick Anastasovski)

              Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
              ???. Aren’t all the people in the list civilian population? Is “Macedonian traitors and spies who worked for the Greek Church” a synonym for Patriarchists?
              No, it’s a synonym for anyone (especially Macedonian turncoats) who worked contrary to IMRO’s end goal – Macedonia’s Political Autonomy, and, instead worked for any of the neighbouring states, be they Greek, Bulgarian or Serbian. The Greek church just so happened to pay Macedonian traitors more handsomely than the rest and sponsored their families’ integration into their new Greek lifestyle in Athens (kids’ education, accommodation, etc.)
              In addition, just so there’s no confusion, a Patriarchist is not a synonym for a Greek either. I know you Greeks like to believe this to be the case but you’re living in Greek La La Land when you believe this. From the same book, The Contest for Macedonian Identity 1870-1912, the position of IMRO with regards to church affiliation was clear:

              The primary objective of the IMRO was the attainment of political autonomy of Macedonia. The organization viewed the religious activities of the Balkan States as propagandistic political interference and reacted to it in a defined manner. According to Article Two of the constitution of the IMRO, “the Organisation struggles for the removal of chauvinistic propaganda and national disputes, which split and exhaust the population in its struggle against the common enemy”. The position of IMRO was aimed at preventing further intensification of the religious rivalry in Macedonia and discouraged the Macedonian people from crossing from one church allegiance to another…
              …Similarly, Nikola Petrov Rusinski was an IMRO leader active in the Bitola/Mariovo region in the winter of 1902/1903. As an activist, he conducted meetings in numerous villages under Patriarchate and Exarchate jurisdiction and successfully joined entire villages into the organizational fold. Oaths of allegiance were taken, memberships administered and village committies appointed. Similar accounts are taken in the memoirs of Mihail Gerdzhikov, Boris Sarafov, Yane Sandanski, Pando Klashev and others throughout various regions of Macedonia of both Patriarchate and Exarchate villages, supplying freedom fighters and supporting the organization and its struggle for political emancipation.
              The organisation actively engaged in bringing villages over to the IMRO regardless of church affiliation, and exploited the dissatisfaction of the Macedonian Christian population. A substantial portion of its fighting ranks consisted of men from Patriarchist villages and recruits were drawn from all sectors of the Macedonian population. Subjected to various influences, there were active men from Exarchate, Patrirchist, Serb Patriarchist, Uniate and Protestant villages. From the non-Macedonian population, Vlahs were the most numerous participants in the IMRO.
              …It is interesting to note that Greek historians have made claim to the Ilinden Rebellion as a Greek rebellion of liberation in Macedonia, counting Macedonian Patriarchist villages as Greek. On the other hand, Bulgarian historians routinely claim the insurrection as Bulgarian, counting the IMRO leaders as Exarchate schoolteachers and the Macedonian Exarchate population as Bulgarian. The American, Albert Sonnichsen, spent a period of six months in Macedonia as a member of an IMRO cheta, active in the region between Ber to Ohrid. Sonnichsen details how a leader of an IMRO unit, from a Patriarchate village, whom had been educated in Athens and was a fluent Greek speaker, utilized his Greek language skills to entrap and kill the Greek priest from the village of Pisoderi. Sonnichsen described the priest in his memoirs Confessions of a Macedonian Bandit as “below a bishop in rank, but higher in atrocities committed”.


              Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
              And where else did I play dumb?
              Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
              LOL, what makes you say that. Karavangelis? I think I've heard the name before.
              Right there!

              Originally posted by Solun View Post
              There you go Karposh, Amphilopis had no knowledge whatsoever of what Karavangelis was really up to. If he had no knowledge then what chance anybody else in Greece having any knowledge?

              Karavangelis will without doubt continue to be revered in Greece as a saintly patriot. He certainly didn't have an easy job. Along with all the Priests sent from the south, they had almost exclusively non Greek speaking parishioners. Karavangelis had his own way of dealing with life in a land with no Greek speakers and we saw that displayed in Zagoricani.

              Amphilopis produced a Greek text book translated and printed in London. The text book made mention of over 200 'Greeks' murdered over the course of a 6 year period. I'm not sure if it is any consolation to him, but aside from a handful of priests, those killed would have struggled putting together a sentence in Greek.
              100% correct Solun.

              Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
              Karavangelis was the Bishop of Kastoria district, there are several threads about the ethnic mix there, or in any district.
              In Karavangelis’ time the Kostur region was in no way as mixed as you are trying to suggest. “Or, in any district” – The Lerin region today, despite everything still has a Macedonian majority. Again, if I haven’t made it clear enough for you, Patriarchist does not automatically equate to Greek.

              Comment

              • Amphipolis
                Banned
                • Aug 2014
                • 1328

                #8
                Originally posted by Karposh View Post
                According to Wikipedia:
                War crimes were committed by both sides during the Macedonian struggle. According to a 1900 British report compiled by Alfred Biliotti, who is considered to have heavily relied on Greek intelligence agents, starting from 1897, the members of the Exarchist committees (meaning IMRO. Belonging to the Bulgarian church was not the aim of IMRO but Macedonian freedom and independence, which was to eventually include its own Macedonian church) had embarked upon a systematic and extensive campaign of executions of the leading members of the Greek side (Note: civilian population was not targeted). Moreover, Bulgarian Komitadjis, pursued a campaign of extermination of Greek and Serbian teachers and clergy (i.e. paid agents for spreading propaganda by their respective governments so, fair game. Again, no civilian population is targeted). On the other hand, there were attacks by Greek Andartes on many Macedonian Bulgarian villages, with the aim of forcing their inhabitants to switch their allegiance from the Exarchate back to the Patriarchate and accept Greek priest and teachers, but they also carried out massacres against the civilian population, especially in the central parts of Macedonia in 1905 and in 1906. One of the notable cases was the massacre at the village Zagorichani (today Vasiliada, Greece), which was an aggressive pro-Bulgarian Exarchist (meaning pro-Macedonian) stronghold near Kastoria on 25 March 1905, where between 60 and 78 villagers were killed by Greek bands.
                Your red corrections in the blue text are fundamentally wrong. The term Komitadji which sounds monstrous in Greece is of course a simplification but it certainly does not include Patriarchists, it refers to Exarchist murderers of Patriarchists.



                I’m not playing humanist or moralist or “against all terrorism” as I understand the meaning of violence. I even understand that murders are not so noble and it is probably impossible to avoid savagery. Thus, I’m not sure which murders of civilians are fair and which are not. The list I gave you is very helpful and a similar list from your side would be very helpful too.

                In the list usually the victims are (a) priests, (b) teachers, (c) collateral damage like the niece of the priest or the wife of the teacher, (d) notables and key persons of any kind including people under blackmail or people who changed side (e) irrelevant random people.

                Tragedies of Macedonia: A Record of Greek Victims of Bulgarian Outrages in Macedonia between 1897 and February 1903 http://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedies_of_Macedonia


                From a Greek point of view, more notable and massive massacres (like 3-digit number of victims) by Komitadji are presented later, in the 1910s and in the 1940s (Bulgarian Occupation). Lastly, the ones in today’s Bulgaria is a different story.

                Oh, and if “pro-Bulgarian” means “pro-Macedonian” be default, then so does “pro-Greek”.

                (to be continued)

                Comment

                • Solun
                  Member
                  • Sep 2012
                  • 166

                  #9
                  You are so lucky Amphipolis.

                  You have learned that IMRO units were made of villagers from both Exarchate and Patriarchate villages.

                  You would never get a chance to learn that by reading Greek text books as it wouldn't align with 'national interests'

                  Comment

                  • Amphipolis
                    Banned
                    • Aug 2014
                    • 1328

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Solun View Post
                    You are so lucky Amphipolis.

                    You have learned that IMRO units were made of villagers from both Exarchate and Patriarchate villages.

                    You would never get a chance to learn that by reading Greek text books as it wouldn't align with 'national interests'
                    I see some confusion on what we're talking about. The list of victims I submitted may also be misleading as it is up to 1903 when about 80% of the murders came right afterwards, mostly between 1905-1908.




                    This is about Greek-Bulgarian antagonism over Macedonia, or Exarchist vs Patriarchist or whatever you want to call it but there were not any Patriarchists killing Patriarchists that I know of, unless it is a mistake (e.g. in Zagoriciani) or (former) Patriarchists that turned Exarchists etc.

                    (I'll be back about the previous posts, I'm just very busy these days)

                    Comment

                    • Liberator of Makedonija
                      Senior Member
                      • Apr 2014
                      • 1595

                      #11
                      Anyone here ever heard of the Hellenic Macedonian Committee founded in 1903?

                      Linked their seal that displays Alexander the Great and Basil II here:

                      I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                      Comment

                      • Amphipolis
                        Banned
                        • Aug 2014
                        • 1328

                        #12
                        Well, what do you want to know?

                        Comment

                        • Liberator of Makedonija
                          Senior Member
                          • Apr 2014
                          • 1595

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
                          Well, what do you want to know?
                          Anything, been sharing it around all day and everyone seems to thing it's fake. Have to admit have never heard of them and I feel if it were 100% fact then every Greek and their dog would be using them against us in the usual online bickering.
                          I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                          Comment

                          • Risto the Great
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 15658

                            #14
                            You don't think the Greeks were hoping for Macedonia back then?
                            Risto the Great
                            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                            Comment

                            • Liberator of Makedonija
                              Senior Member
                              • Apr 2014
                              • 1595

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                              You don't think the Greeks were hoping for Macedonia back then?
                              Yes but considering how taboo the name 'Macedonia' was after Greece acquired part of it, a lot of people reckon this is fake.
                              I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                              Comment

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