what are we doing.

[nushevski77]

post deleted

[Risto the Great]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't turn it into a sentient being with a sense of patriotism. You might be able to make it drink though.

Recent history has shown us they resent anything we suggest and that they are victims of a destiny they feel they have no power to change.

Horses have more self respect.

[Gocka]

Horses have more self respect.

Damn right they do. Get on a horse's back and start acting like a fool and see what happens to you!

[Pelagonija]

Forget protests..

You have two ways to change an existing system.

1)Via politics.
2)Via war.

The Croat and Albanian diaspora were really efficient in supporting their homelands.

Majority of Macedonians are useless and greedy.

[Risto the Great]

Majority of Macedonians are useless and greedy.

Majority of humans are useless and greedy.
Macedonians in the diaspora have done more than their share of the work. While some may choose to disagree, it has been us and only us who have preserved the Macedonian identity in the world's eyes for the last 60 years.

The Croats set the benchmark.

[sydney]

Forget protests..

You have two ways to change an existing system.

1)Via politics.
2)Via war.

The Croat and Albanian diaspora were really efficient in supporting their homelands.

Majority of Macedonians are useless and greedy.

This topic of the diaspora really gives me the shits. RTG said it above - if the homeland doesn’t respect its own people living outside its borders then of course there’ll be a lack of action and efficiency. The average citizen of NMK will parrot the same garbage along the lines of ‘se prajte golemi patrioti dojdete tuka da ziveete’.

It starts from the top. There is no political leadership (or otherwise) to deliver the programs for the diaspora to confidently be involved. The diaspora won’t get involved in a war but may help to finance one. But this is unlikely because the citizens won’t take up arms. So back to politics and back to a lack of leadership to get serious about leveraging the diaspora.

[Phoenix]

This topic of the diaspora really gives me the shits. RTG said it above - if the homeland doesn’t respect its own people living outside its borders then of course there’ll be a lack of action and efficiency. The average citizen of NMK will parrot the same garbage along the lines of ‘se prajte golemi patrioti dojdete tuka da ziveete’.

It starts from the top. There is no political leadership (or otherwise) to deliver the programs for the diaspora to confidently be involved. The diaspora won’t get involved in a war but may help to finance one. But this is unlikely because the citizens won’t take up arms. So back to politics and back to a lack of leadership to get serious about leveraging the diaspora.

Well put Sydney.

I strongly agree with what you have written, there has always been a lack of leadership in Macedonia since independence was declared, as bad as it was then, today represents the ultimate low-water mark in the leadership credentials of those in power.

I have previously stated that - "a fish rots from the head down" but political sayings like -"in a democracy the people get the leaders they deserve" also ring true for the Macedonian people.

There are many concerned Macedonians at home and in the diaspora still fighting this battle but sadly there's really no political force behind any of these movements or individuals...Macedonian politicians and leaders have always had a wealth of intellectual resources and financial support to tap into from diaspora sources but they've (mostly) chosen to ignore the intellectual resources afforded them and have brazenly looted the financial support...

Strong leadership is the glue between the Macedonians in the homeland and those in the diaspora, sadly the strength of that bond has never been realised and is probably now broken forever...very few Macedonians in the diaspora are willing to help financially anymore because of endemic corruption among our so called "leaders"...and as for any advice you can give those boneheads in the homeland...forget it.

[Phoenix]

...
The Croats set the benchmark.

The Croat diaspora also bitches a bit about those in their homeland...the homeland suffers from similar delusions of grandeur as do the Macedonians...but not to the extent that our people do.

I think the problem is that like the Macedonians, the Croats (in the homeland) consider themselves a little more 'old world' and 'European', a bit more 'modern' and 'cultured' than those of use that find ourselves in the 'primitive - new world'...they often view and ridicule us as being stuck in the time-warp of the decade we migrated, compared to their 'progressive' evolution as 'modern Europeans'

The Croats are still the benchmark...I agree.

[Amphipolis]

*my post doesn't share any news or politics but it is about Macedonian politics.

I know most of us live in the diasporas of Canada, Australia, and the USA but is there really nothing that none of us can do to help or assist Macedonia? Really what are we actually doing all we do is share news and talk about Macedonia and how bad all these traitors are, can we not think of something to do, I don't think umd or mhrmi is organizing any protests. Im not trying to shit on each other but how come theres nothing we can do?

I think it’s quite simple. The average wealth for a resident in USA, Australia or Canada is 8 to 11 times more than in homeland.

You have to pack and go back, have a privileged life in your homeland, invest your money and offer your advanced cosmopolitan culture, talent and mentality, share their destiny and see how it is or how you make a difference.

[Pelagonija]

This topic of the diaspora really gives me the shits. RTG said it above - if the homeland doesn’t respect its own people living outside its borders then of course there’ll be a lack of action and efficiency. The average citizen of NMK will parrot the same garbage along the lines of ‘se prajte golemi patrioti dojdete tuka da ziveete’.

It starts from the top. There is no political leadership (or otherwise) to deliver the programs for the diaspora to confidently be involved. The diaspora won’t get involved in a war but may help to finance one. But this is unlikely because the citizens won’t take up arms. So back to politics and back to a lack of leadership to get serious about leveraging the diaspora.

Money can be very persuasive, I think the diaspora could have done more post WWII, at the very least did some counter bribing of various politicians at key periods in our history.

It’s too late now, people in NMK are fed up with nationalism. They would choose to speak Albanian or Greek if it opens the doors to a better life.

FYI the KLA was created in Switzerland by expats, they ended up carving out some land from Serbia and made fyrom binational. They were the laughing stock of the Balkans. But they had a plan..

[Pelagonija]

Majority of humans are useless and greedy.
Macedonians in the diaspora have done more than their share of the work. While some may choose to disagree, it has been us and only us who have preserved the Macedonian identity in the world's eyes for the last 60 years.

The Croats set the benchmark.

Leta not normalise what is not normal. The ones that preserved the macedonian identity were the ones that spilt blood in the wars of last century, the poets who wrote patriotic poems, the musicians who sang patriotic songs, the teachers that taught our language, the families that taught culture and respect and the church that instilled morals. Let’s compare today’s fyromers track record for selling out? You can’t compare them with anyone, they are unique and and example of extreme cowardice.

It’s the fight we fight that defines us. I’ve always felt %100 Macedonian.

[Pelagonija]

I think it’s quite simple. The average wealth for a resident in USA, Australia or Canada is 8 to 11 times more than in homeland.

You have to pack and go back, have a privileged life in your homeland, invest your money and offer your advanced cosmopolitan culture, talent and mentality, share their destiny and see how it is or how you make a difference.

I know plenty of persons who would like to return to their homeland and reclaim their homes in what is today northern Greece.

But Greece is special like a greedy beauty queen, they don’t have to respect the human rights of anyone. It’s 2019 and you have not one class in Northern Greece teaching Macedonian.

Btw poustie take off the pic of the shiela it’s very deceiving.

[Amphipolis]

I know plenty of persons who would like to return to their homeland and reclaim their homes in what is today northern Greece.

But Greece is special like a greedy beauty queen, they don’t have to respect the human rights of anyone. It’s 2019 and you have not one class in Northern Greece teaching Macedonian.

Btw poustie take off the pic of the shiela it’s very deceiving.

My post applies to all cases of returning to homeland and sharing its' destiny. If you return to Greece you will have a different political struggle and issues.

We have relevant threads about properties and schools.

[JPMKD]

okay thanks for your replies, it seems still as hopeless as it was before. I guess it comes down to the fact that the people in macedonia chose this path and theres nothing we can do then.

Sadly, I feel you've summed it uo correctly. I'm in earlier middle age and this is the worst I've seen it. So much hope and pride in 1992 and prior....
What I am thinking is the folks who had skills have already left North Macedonia and it reduced the pool of people. Seems most of the ones with dignity left long ago. These dumbassess think they getting into EU and NATO. This will be fun to watch unfold. It'll be like Cherlie Brown and the football(Lucy).
My family is from the Krani and Bitola areas.Not sure where this leaves me.I guess I'll need to learn Greek. I apparently already know a "Bulgarian dialect". So damn deflating still. I recall once we were referred to as "The Palestinians of Europe". Regardless of where you stand on that issue, I can only imagine what it would be like if we had half of their pride and 5% of their commitment. Or maybe I am a blowhard American full of shit. Perhaps both things are true....

[Big Bad Sven]

Money can be very persuasive, I think the diaspora could have done more post WWII, at the very least did some counter bribing of various politicians at key periods in our history.

It’s too late now, people in NMK are fed up with nationalism. They would choose to speak Albanian or Greek if it opens the doors to a better life.

FYI the KLA was created in Switzerland by expats, they ended up carving out some land from Serbia and made fyrom binational. They were the laughing stock of the Balkans. But they had a plan..

The Norwegian black metal musician ‘Varg’ on his youtube channel talked about when he went to jail in Oslo the majority of the people in prison where Albanians. They would sell drugs and do other criminal activities and send all proceeds to the UCK. The UCK would then use this money to buy weapons from the USA or send money to Albanian-American politicians to ‘persuade’ American politicians to support the Albanian cause. He also mentioned that when he was growing up in Scandinavia it was the Pakistanis who where the biggest criminal element in Scandinavia, and from the late 80s to today it is now the shiptars.

Anyway, you beat me to it. I was going to say the shiptars have done very well as a diaspora, they have really caught up to people such as croats, irish, Italians etc who have a strong and influential diaspora.
Look at the shiptar-american Joe DioGuardi and how influential he is as an American politician. He openly publish’s greater Albanian propaganda as well. Look at the amount of work and money the Albanian American Civic League has done for the shiptars in Kosovo, and now shiptars in Macedonia (this is a party lead and started by the before mentioned Joe DioGuardi).

In comparison what do the Macedonians have? The laughably pathetic UMD? The same jokers who flip flop on their stance and dance to whatever tune their American masters tell them to do? Or if Greece or Bulgaria does something racist what happens? These macedonian organisations just post an angry facebook announcement, wow so scary.

The Macedonians diaspora did a lot to keep the Macedonian identity alive especially in the late 80’s and early 90’s but I feel that maybe they have not ‘advanced’ or updated their strategy with others such as the shiptars. They didn’t play dirty and buy politicians or historians, they didn’t use Australian/American politicians but instead allowed themselves to be used by these politicians. And most importantly, macedonains are notorious for in fighting so all these macedonains groups split up into other small groups with their own direction and goals.

But to be fair, I cant blame the diaspora for giving up – I have heard plenty of stories of money being sent to the republic and it going ‘missing’.