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Risto the Great 03-12-2012 05:46 PM

[QUOTE=Bugi;122710]Because the ones who have a adress of living in the country,but work abroad and come at least once a year in Macedonia should be counted!

if we count them,our number will be 35%,which means more rights...but again,without them,we are still 27-28%
that is a metodology used in many censuses in Europe and on the balkans![/QUOTE]Do you think you can get them all back on one day? Are Macedonians allowed to come back as well?

Do you know that other countries pick a day and use that as a snapshot of what the country really looks like? Australia does this. It is actually far more honest and appropriate.

How many are in Kosovo right now out of curiosity?

[QUOTE=Bugi;122710]I would like to see how then you can state that Macedonia shouldnt be redefined,with a 50%-or more nonmacedonian population,to claim that it will belong firstly to macedonians then to the others,it's just racist![/QUOTE]
I believe Macedonia belongs to its citizens. That the majority of the population will have majority rule and that, as long as human rights are defended and maintained, Macedonia will be the homeland of the Macedonians.

What kind of madness are you proposing? That one day the ethnic Albanians might become the majority in Macedonia and therefore Macedonians should give them some kind of preferential treatment?

Tell me, and please be honest, do you think if Macedonians shrank to 20% or 25% of the population in Macedonia that they deserve the right to veto any decision on Macedonia's future?

Zarni 03-12-2012 05:49 PM

[QUOTE]So now you tell me why ethnic Albanians as citizens of Macedonia cannot celebrate a NON-ETHNIC Macedonian day using a NON-ETHNIC Macedonian flag? [/QUOTE]

Macedonian Independence day was celebrated merely 3 months ago I am sure you are proud Macedonian Citizen well are you that is permanent question you value Independence from the Former Yugoslavia or let me sugar goat this for you freedom from Milosevic's Terror.

1) When Macedonia declared Impendence in 1991 Macedonian-Albanians did not support it
2) When Macedonia celebrated Impendence day just this year the streets of Tetovo had no demonstration of it not a single stone was moved, not a single Albanian Politician who is sworn to uphold the values of the Macedonian State not that of Tirana and the UN province across the other side demonstrated a will to be at the celebrations

What does that undisputedly say actions speak very loudly
O flag waving

Don't you think it is too much when a Flag of a Foreign State fly's loader and larger than the Macedonian State Flag how do you think we feel when even visiting diplomats cant ignore the fact the Macedonian State flag is not to be seen in an official State visit

Why can't Albanians come to consensus and say we understand the felling of the majority we like to respect the Flag coz you don't want to that is why
Stop the rot and excuses we all understand your desire

Phoenix 03-12-2012 08:17 PM

[QUOTE=Bugi;122710]
...if we count them,our number will be 35%,which means more rights...but again,without them,we are still 27-28%
that is a [B][I][U]metodology[/U][/I][/B] used in many censuses in Europe...
[/QUOTE]

..."metodology" has always proven to be unprincipled, lacking discipline, organization and philosophy...I'm not surprised it's a system favored by our dodgy shiptar friends...

Bugi 03-12-2012 09:03 PM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;122721]Do you think you can get them all back on one day? Are Macedonians allowed to come back as well?
[/QUOTE]

They stay at least 3 months of the year in Macedonia,and it isn't even that important,the important thing is that they invest in their hometown.

Look at the eastern part of Macedonia-which under Yugoslavia recived much much more investment than the western part,and look at the western part.

you will get the point,in western Macedonia 90% of the business and land is in albanian hands.


[QUOTE=Risto the Great;122721]How many are in Kosovo right now out of curiosity?[/QUOTE]


1,5 million according to the last census,we would have been more,up to 1,8 million if it wasnt for the war when many albanians left Kosovo on the base of asylum seekers.

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;122721]I believe Macedonia belongs to its citizens. That the majority of the population will have majority rule and that, as long as human rights are defended and maintained, Macedonia will be the homeland of the Macedonians.

What kind of madness are you proposing? That one day the ethnic Albanians might become the majority in Macedonia and therefore Macedonians should give them some kind of preferential treatment?

Tell me, and please be honest, do you think if Macedonians shrank to 20% or 25% of the population in Macedonia that they deserve the right to veto any decision on Macedonia's future?[/QUOTE]

well you tell me why albanians shouldnt become co-official in the country together with the macedonians?

everyone should work in favor of their interest,same goes for the veto part!

Risto the Great 03-12-2012 09:27 PM

[QUOTE=Bugi;122728]They stay at least 3 months of the year in Macedonia,and it isn't even that important,the important thing is that they invest in their hometown.[/QUOTE]The important thing is that they are not a figment of Albanian imagination. That they are citizens and representative of the demographics of the region.

[QUOTE=Bugi;122728]1,5 million according to the last census,we would have been more,up to 1,8 million if it wasnt for the war when many albanians left Kosovo on the base of asylum seekers.[/QUOTE]I meant ethnic Albanians of Macedonia who are in Kosovo.


[QUOTE=Bugi;122728]well you tell me why albanians shouldnt become co-official in the country together with the macedonians?[/QUOTE]Because they are a minority. In particular because they have no desire to preserve the Macedonian nation. Also because the Vlachs and Turks and Serbs and whoever else are other minorities that will logically seek the same treatment.

[QUOTE=Bugi;122728]everyone should work in favor of their interest,same goes for the veto part![/QUOTE]I don't understand you. Are you saying every minority should have the right of vetoing laws in Macedonia? Because that is utterly stupid.

George S. 03-12-2012 09:58 PM

BUgi if that's your attitude you better pack your bags & head for kosovo because we don't want you in macedonia.News for you in the next skirmish there won't be nato or the us to protect you it will be a hail of bullets.We are getting sick & tired of seeing albanian nationalism,you have no respect for us & we sure as hell have no respect for you the sooner we have it out the better & please no peace or ahrid agreement this time lets fight it to the finish.Why do we have to accommodate & put up with your shit IT's our country!

Zarni 03-13-2012 04:52 AM

[QUOTE]well you tell me why albanians shouldnt become co-official in the country together with the macedonians?[/QUOTE]

Macedonia still is seen as a Macedonian Nation State for all Macedonians It certainly was a Macedonian revolution and Macedonians who are the fathers of the Macedonian Statehood not to mention as a third point Albanians are a minority.

Any bi-national position naturally without a doubt leads to succession. I am sure you very well understand this stop acting naive we are right on every principal and you know it

Zarni 03-13-2012 04:57 AM

Bugi if life is such a burden in Macedonia why dont you immigrate to Kosovo I am sure you have fireside family there no tot mention the process would be very easy

George S. 03-13-2012 05:22 PM

i think life is better for the albanians in kosovo maybe ship yourself out bugi.

The LION will ROAR 03-13-2012 05:46 PM

Albanians in Albania burning the national flag of Macedonia

[url]http://www.netpress.com.mk/mk/vest.asp?id=100305&kategorija=1[/url]

[IMG]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItiCeifdTQ8&feature=player_embedded[/IMG]

Young crowd chanted "We want ethnic Albania" and "Down Macedonia" after which they burned the Macedonian flag....

Bugi 03-13-2012 06:04 PM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;122730]
I meant ethnic Albanians of Macedonia who are in Kosovo.
[/QUOTE]


There arent any macedonian albanians in Kosovo,but I do see in recent time a trend of more and more young kosovar albanians who come to study in albanian universities in Macedonia and stay there...


[QUOTE=Risto the Great;122730]Because they are a minority. In particular because they have no desire to preserve the Macedonian nation. Also because the Vlachs and Turks and Serbs and whoever else are other minorities that will logically seek the same treatment.[/QUOTE]

All the other minorities make up 10% of the population,while the albanians are 30%!
well albanians should care about preserving the albanian nation,just as the macedonians should care about the macedonian...

Nevzat Halili had a idea few years ago that you didint even took under consideration:
Macedonia would be made out of two federal units with two parlaments-Macedonian parlament and Ilirida parlament and a main parlament dome where 50% of the deputies would be macedonians,40% albanians and 10% representatives of the other minorities.

Here is the main conclusion

[QUOTE]Заклучоци од првото собрание на Р. Илирида:

1.Сегашната Македонија да се прогласи за Федерална Република Македонија
Внатрешното уредување да се прогласи за унија на два рамноправни народи односно Унија на Република Илирида и Македонија
2. Државната заедница да добие дводомен парламент со пропорционална застапеност на двата народа
3. На територијарта на целата држава да има два официјални службени јазици: албанскиот, македонскиот и англискиот како комуникативен
4. Насекаде во централните и локалните органи на Унијата на Илирида и Македонија да се веат албанското и македонското знаме
5. Федералната Република Македонија да има посебно знаме за кое знаме ќе се договарат двете Републики
6. Претседателот на Федерална Република Македонија да се избира на секои четри (4) години, при што би се менувало по принцип на ротација, две години таа функција да ја извршува Албанец, а преостанатите две години Македонец, под услов претседателот да ги познава двата службени јазици и задолжително англискиот како комуникативен
7. Двата државни етнитети да имаат своја армија, полиција и судство
8. Меѓусебните граници да се определат во текот на создавањето на Унијата.[/QUOTE]

Bugi 03-13-2012 06:09 PM

[QUOTE=The LION will ROAR;122781]Albanians in Albania burning the national flag of Macedonia

[/QUOTE]

And we return to the action and reaction part

before the macedonian flag being burned

[IMG]http://www.rts.rs/upload/storyBoxImageData/2012/03/13/9421392/albanska.jpg[/IMG]

Risto the Great 03-13-2012 06:13 PM

[url]http://www.rts.rs/upload/storyBoxImageData/2012/03/13/9421392/albanska.jpg[/url]

Thanks for the Serbian linked picture.
Are Albanians still fighting Serbs in Macedonia?

Niko777 03-13-2012 06:14 PM

[QUOTE=The LION will ROAR;122781]Albanians in Albania burning the national flag of Macedonia

[url]http://www.netpress.com.mk/mk/vest.asp?id=100305&kategorija=1[/url]

[IMG]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItiCeifdTQ8&feature=player_embedded[/IMG]

Young crowd chanted "We want ethnic Albania" and "Down Macedonia" after which they burned the Macedonian flag....[/QUOTE]

[B]This is the thanks Macedonia gets for hanging hundreds of Albanian flags on government buildings all over the country.[/B]

Risto the Great 03-13-2012 06:20 PM

[QUOTE=Bugi;122786]There arent any macedonian albanians in Kosovo,but I do see in recent time a trend of more and more young kosovar albanians who come to study in albanian universities in Macedonia and stay there...[/QUOTE]I wonder why they stay.




[QUOTE=Bugi;122786]All the other minorities make up 10% of the population,while the albanians are 30%!
well albanians should care about preserving the albanian nation,just as the macedonians should care about the macedonian...

Nevzat Halili had a idea few years ago that you didint even took under consideration:
Macedonia would be made out of two federal units with two parlaments-Macedonian parlament and Ilirida parlament and a main parlament dome where 50% of the deputies would be macedonians,40% albanians and 10% representatives of the other minorities.[/QUOTE]
I do not believe your 30%. But even if it was true, why 40% representatives in the above?

It was a stupid idea that wasn't even worth entertaining because the agenda was a federalisation of Macedonia based on ethnicity.

If you are saying Albanians should care about preserving the Albanian nation, you are a fool. We are talking about Macedonian citizens here. If there interests are so firmly entrenched in another nation, they really should migrate there.

I note you didn't pursue your silly idea of veto powers for minorities. If your opinion has changed, will you vote for changes to the Macedonian constitution in order to restore normality?

Bugi 03-13-2012 06:21 PM

[QUOTE=Niko777;122792][B]This is the thanks Macedonia gets for hanging hundreds of Albanian flags on government buildings all over the country.[/B][/QUOTE]

Like you were gona hang them if the albanians didint start uprising...

Zarni 03-13-2012 06:21 PM

Piss this bastard off admin he has been given an opportunity and speaks well for what Albanians desire, Greater Albania and the Destruction of the Macedonian State through the proxy of Human Rights and endless concessions amount to special status unseen in any Country on Earth for a restless minority

Bugi 03-13-2012 06:23 PM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;122791][url]http://www.rts.rs/upload/storyBoxImageData/2012/03/13/9421392/albanska.jpg[/url]

Thanks for the Serbian linked picture.
Are Albanians still fighting Serbs in Macedonia?[/QUOTE]

As I said,action and reaction

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIiiiU8Sx1k&feature=related]Shkup, digjet flamuri shqiptar.flv - YouTube[/url]

Zarni 03-13-2012 06:25 PM

[QUOTE]And we return to the action and reaction part

before the macedonian flag being burned[/QUOTE]

I saw that posted on a Albanian Forum it occured in Northern Kosovo

Risto the Great 03-13-2012 06:28 PM

If Bugi is representative of ethnic Albanians in Macedonia, then his opinion and thoughts are useful here on some levels. I still get the impression most ethnic Albanians of Macedonia are under the belief that they will be the majority in Macedonia one day, therefore they deserve privileged status in Macedonia immediately. This is obviously a flawed perspective and in many ways dangerous for the Macedonian nation.

Macedonians could make this problem go away in one week if they choose to. Unfortunately they are too self-absorbed to worry about it.

Bugi 03-13-2012 06:32 PM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;122793]
I do not believe your 30%. But even if it was true, why 40% representatives in the above?

It was a stupid idea that wasn't even worth entertaining because the agenda was a federalisation of Macedonia based on ethnicity.

If you are saying Albanians should care about preserving the Albanian nation, you are a fool. We are talking about Macedonian citizens here. If there interests are so firmly entrenched in another nation, they really should migrate there.

I note you didn't pursue your silly idea of veto powers for minorities. If your opinion has changed, will you vote for changes to the Macedonian constitution in order to restore normality?[/QUOTE]

citizenship doesnt mean a nation

albanians are part of the albanian nation,they are just macedonian citizens!

Macedonia will hve to be redifined as a state,if it isn't done soon it will be a big setback in the relations of the future albanian and macedonian generations in Macedonia...
that is the best way to make the albanians feel Macedonia as their own,the way they feel Kosovo or Albania as their own.

lavce pelagonski 03-13-2012 06:32 PM

Bugi how do you feel about your peoples actions after the '99 nato Bombings of Kosovo and the relocation of 300,000 Albanians to Macedonia with full citizenship. How did you repay our hospitality, we saved you from the Serbs and NATO.

How did you repay us?

lavce pelagonski 03-13-2012 06:34 PM

Macedonia is for the Macedonians as you state you are only a citizen so you ie the shiptars have no right in you deluded idea of ilirida.

Bugi 03-13-2012 06:37 PM

[QUOTE=lavce pelagonski;122802]Bugi how do you feel about your peoples actions after the '99 nato Bombings of Kosovo and the relocation of 300,000 Albanians to Macedonia with full citizenship. How did you repay our hospitality, we saved you from the Serbs and NATO.

How did you repay us?[/QUOTE]

LOL
why are you telling me something that even you dont believe in?

you never done anything for the albanians because you cared,you did it under preassure from the international community or UCK and the albanian political factor in the country.

George S. 03-13-2012 06:38 PM

So what right have you got to create a state within a state.macedonia was never your country.Remember the albanians got kicked out by the communists so they went to ksovo,macedonia & serbia.Being thrown out of your native? albania how does that feel as you try & feel a proud albanian taking the macedonia's homeland??

Bugi 03-13-2012 06:42 PM

[QUOTE=George S.;122805]So what right have you got to create a state within a state.macedonia was never your country.Remember the albanians got kicked out by the communists so they went to ksovo,macedonia & serbia.Being thrown out of your native? albania how does that feel as you try & feel a proud albanian taking the macedonia's homeland??[/QUOTE]

you got any facts to back that claim about us being kicked out of Albania?

nobody isn't talking about takingover countries,you want to go in the EU but you have racist threads about albanization!

how can you want albanians to respect the state when you look at their national rights as ''albanization of the country''?

George S. 03-13-2012 06:44 PM

Bugi you misinterpret macedonian hospitality .If i remember right the poor farmers had to accomodate you on their land.Were they really compensated no.So to this day you are ungreatfull for being looked after.Apparently that land could not be reused for anything because it was defiled by the 400,000 (kosovars ?) albanians.So being ungreatfull that about sums you up.I think if that's the case the authorities could have refused after all macedonia is a sovereign country.Isn't it amazing how non cooperative & non supportive.
Just don't forget you are still a minority so don't rock the boat.What more rights are you after??

Risto the Great 03-13-2012 06:47 PM

[QUOTE=Bugi;122804]you never done anything for the albanians because you cared,you did it under preassure from the international community or UCK and the albanian political factor in the country.[/QUOTE]How come Albanian schooling existed before 2001 without the need for terrorist actions?

lavce pelagonski 03-13-2012 06:47 PM

How did you repay us by your terrorist acts or by writing UCK on the backs of our young men. You probably dont even know how to speak Macedonian, Samo sakate gami nasekade, radical islam at its best how is the money from gihad serving you your probably on their payroll.

Risto the Great 03-13-2012 06:49 PM

[QUOTE=Bugi;122801]citizenship doesnt mean a nation

albanians are part of the albanian nation,they are just macedonian citizens![/QUOTE]
I think you mean ethnicity when you say nation. I have managed to live in another nation without resorting to violence in order to preserve my ethnic identity.

lavce pelagonski 03-13-2012 06:49 PM

Why arte you in a country that doesnt like you by your words, go back to Kosovo and live there it is free isnt it. What are you waiting for ists just a few minutes away.

Bugi 03-13-2012 06:51 PM

[QUOTE=George S.;122809]Bugi you misinterpret macedonian hospitality .If i remember right the poor farmers had to accomodate you on their land.Were they really compensated no.So to this day you are ungreatfull for being looked after.Apparently that land could not be reused for anything because it was defiled by the 400,000 (kosovars ?) albanians.So being ungreatfull that about sums you up.I think if that's the case the authorities could have refused after all macedonia is a sovereign country.Isn't it amazing how non cooperative & non supportive.
Just don't forget you are still a minority so don't rock the boat.What more rights are you after??[/QUOTE]

The albanian language should be co-official on all elvels in the country!
discrimination should stop,here is an example,how come macedonians get 400 million euros for projects like Skopje 2014 while albanians get 15 million euros for one square?

What farmers?
alll albanians were in tents on one field!
and even if that land belonged to farmers,you care more about a piace of land than about people who left behind their houses and everything they worked for their entire life?

the international community even gave you compensation money for letting them in...

you did nothing for the albanians,we got our rights through blood!

George S. 03-13-2012 06:52 PM

Envir roger kicked a lot of the muslim type of albanians after the 2nd world war.You go through the whole of albania & you don't see many mosques minarets.But in macedonia some places
have as much as 3 mosques.Why the answer is Albanisation of Macedonia.So that in effect
you are trying to take over on the pretext that macedonia is not giving you any rights or privelges.This is bs you enjoy quite a lot of rights that you are surpassing the ordinarry macedonian rights.
If you behaved like a proper citizen threads like this would not be necessary.But because you are divisive & want a greater albania.These threads will show how you want to albanise macedonia.

Zarni 03-13-2012 06:52 PM

Yes I probably agree Risto if he behaves it will be a good snapshot

Macedonians certainly dont wish the destruction of the Albanian State

On Flag burning it is the intent that matters mostly immature and dump

unlike infamous banner at a Football match in Kosovo
care to comment Bugi or will you continue to ignore my questions posed to you

Zarni 03-13-2012 06:53 PM

[QUOTE]The albanian language should be co-official on all elvels in the country![/QUOTE]

International norms anyone

The LION will ROAR 03-13-2012 06:53 PM

[QUOTE=Bugi;122788]And we return to the action and reaction part

before the macedonian flag being burned


you lying piece of shit...posting serbs burning the flag and calling them Macedonians...

I'm happy that you inbreeds are here, just shows what you all about..

tell us bugi what has Alabanians in Macedonia done anything positive for the counrty they live in..?

Risto the Great 03-13-2012 06:54 PM

If I was an ethnic Albanian in Macedonia, I would be pretty confident that becoming a terrorist will reward me. It already did in 2001. If I was a moderate ethnic Albanian, it would not be a great leap to become hardcore given the rewards seem there for the taking. Bugi is merely representative of that confident mindset.

This is the mindset at the moment and is reminiscent of the turncoat Albanians who gave up their christian faith in order to have the right to bear arms in Ottoman times. This time it is the UN & EU that is giving them their rights.

Same thing, different century.

Macedonians shouldn't talk tough in my opinion. We have never demonstrated the ability to be tough in the last 20 years.

Bugi 03-13-2012 06:54 PM

[QUOTE=lavce pelagonski;122813]Why arte you in a country that doesnt like you by your words, go back to Kosovo and live there it is free isnt it. What are you waiting for ists just a few minutes away.[/QUOTE]

Albanians are native in Macedonia.

Risto the Great 03-13-2012 06:55 PM

[QUOTE=Bugi;122814]the international community even gave you compensation money for letting them in...[/QUOTE]Please verify your statement. Exactly how much was actually paid to the Macedonian government?

Risto the Great 03-13-2012 06:55 PM

[QUOTE=Bugi;122820]Albanians are native in Macedonia.[/QUOTE]So are vlachs, turks & serbs. They are all minorities.


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