Soldier,

it started from a objection due to degradation of Macedonians living in RoM, which happen to be so difficult to avoid when trying supposedly to educate our compatriots.

But now, it looks like some kind of a crusade against the "heretics".
I guess they want me to be crucified for giving such sinful objection.

[quote=Bratot;82878]Vangelovski,

you still didn't provide the practical solution how to win people over... and having said that, you are far from continuing what our predecessors started.

You actually fit in what Jehovah's Witnesses activity looks like when stoping people on the streets.[/quote]

Bratot,

The only way to ensure Macedonian FREEDOM is if all (or at least a great majority of) Macedonians are committed to it, rather than your dullusional "grand strategy" that you are "unable to talk about in public".

The only way to get Macedonian committment to freedom is to win over each and every individual. Thats not something that is achieved over night and each individual needs to hear the 'message'. One way that this 'message' is being delivered is right here on the MTO, and many members have slowly come to see that the Macedonian people SHOULD be FREE to DETERMINE their own AFFAIRS. They have also come to realise that treason such as the Interim Accord and the Framework Agreement PREVENT them from determining their own affairs. You, however, have consistently shown that you DO NOT support Macedonian freedom, by, for example, subtly supporting the Interim Accord.

[QUOTE=Vangelovski;82893]You, however, have consistently shown that you DO NOT support Macedonian freedom.[/QUOTE]

No, maybe not. Bratot has shown that a secret agenda possibly exists and possibly many dominoes still possibly need to be aligned in order to achieve the possible "master plan". This "master plan" will possibly see the majority of Macedonians instantly convert from a propensity for servitude to one of possible empowerment. Or, there will simply be further Albanianisation of Macedonia. In which case, go to the beginning of this thread and repeat until something changes.

[quote=Risto the Great;82900]No, maybe not. Bratot has shown that a secret agenda possibly exists and possibly many dominoes still possibly need to be aligned in order to achieve the possible "master plan". This "master plan" will possibly see the majority of Macedonians instantly convert from a propensity for servitude to one of possible empowerment. Or, there will simply be further Albanianisation of Macedonia. In which case, go to the beginning of this thread and repeat until something changes.[/quote]

I knew I was missing something...

[QUOTE=Vangelovski;82893]Bratot,

The only way to ensure Macedonian FREEDOM is if all (or at least a great majority of) Macedonians are committed to it, rather than your dullusional "grand strategy" that you are "unable to talk about in public".
[/QUOTE]

Before you undertake something you wish to notify the enemy what you are planing to do with him?

I'm just being convinced to exclude you from any posibile initiative on Macedonian matters, as result of your unimprovable immaturity.

This is beyond belief.

I get the feeling that what Bratot and others could be looking for an explanation of the nuts and bolts rather than broad strokes of what is needed.

I don’t know Bratot other than on this site so I cannot know his true hart. I like to believe he is on the right side of the fence and not like Crvenkovski so I believe the first part of convincing a person there is a problem and hence a need for some action is understood and past then what’s left is to work out what action and how its going to work.

Regardless, here is a quick "practical" check list for YOU:

1. Understand that you are a human being.
2. Realise that you have inalienable natural rights and corresponding responsibilities.
3. Exercise your natural rights and meet your responsibilities.

Is this really a practical checklist on how to or is it really realising
You are a human being who has right responsibilities and capabilities and you need to take action to exercise your right to achieve your responsibilities or objectives.

There was a question about how would an objective viewer understand this thread. If I were to read the above it sounds to me like a pep talk to convince someone who is in their shell that they too are valuable as a person and to make them realise they have rights ie tools at there disposal to achieve their needs. It doesn’t say anything to me in a step by step list how to exercise those rights to achieve those objectives.

There may be some in RoM or the diaspora who faced with the current situation find it too overwhelming and don’t know where to start and have fallen into a kind of paralysis where they need to be coax out of this paralysis first before they can start thinking and doing anything. You are right in saying that the first thing is to stir the mind but this is Not what Bratot is asking. He accepts there is a need for action and is fired up to do something. He realises and understands the broad objectives outlined above and now he is stuck on ok this is what we want to do…ie exercise our rights to fulfil our responsibilities…so how do we start…step by step how to s.

I really didn’t want to say any of the above because I think we are of the same desires and I don’t want to sound like I am questioning anyone’s intelligence because I know from other posts you are all intelligent but reading this thread I cannot help seeing the repetitive statements going around in a circle and it reminds me of two people playing chess and are so engrossed in the game that they cannot see a move yet a third person walking by says just do x move.

Bratot, you are being far too naive with this secret plan or conspiracy that you are suggesting. It is unrealistic.

To undertake anything serious that will fix the problems that Macedonia has, the Macedonian people must be completely behind it. It is impossible to have the Macedonian people completely behind it, when they no nothing about what is supposed to happen and more importantly, the way things are heading in Macedonia, there will need to be a substantial mind shift for any such 'grand plan' as you suggest to actually be widely supported, because as it stands it will be opposed by the Macedonian people, in favour of Euro-integration.

That is the reality of the situation in Macedonia and these suggestions sound far too much like a day dream and sound like someone who is in serious debt, begging to win the lotto without facing the reality and dealing with it.

How does one encourage (rather quickly) a shift in individuals consciousness , as a collective?

There are many ways, but I'll leave that one for the experts.

Though what is most important, is to realise that the mind shift is what is necessary, not some cloak and dagger strategy that is really a denial or avoidance of reality.

One thing I find peculiar with all this talk of rights is where dose the quotient [I]my might is right[/I] fit in these equations.

I have a cousin who was involved in the 2001 conflict. At the end he was ordered to keep his head down and stop shooting even though the Albanians were still shooting because the NATO troops were going to be coming in to disarm the Albanians…read save their backsides. He told his commander if they could have a few more hours with them the NATO troops wont need to do anything the problem will be solved. He was told to shut up.

What that says is you have right but NATO doesn’t give a flying F if you do and their might is right. There’s more to the Macedonian equation than just rights.