"Racism" about a certain group of people is really just generalizations, stereotypes. Nothing more, nothing less, let's move on to more important things.

I find the whole concept of the word racism stupid. It's like calling someone a xenophobe because they wish to retain their countries cultural and ethnic history. Going off topic slightly here, but literally most people are then xenophobes. You'd have to be a quite ridiculously liberal pacifist to not show signs of discontent at large scale migration/immigration into one's country.

Anyway...

I think your taking serious topics lightly. Being racist and or xenophobic is not the same as making generalizations, it is a lot more than that. For you to simply brush off the concept of racism as something "stupid" is a bit worrying. Racism, can be many things, some of which can be: Unfair treatment based on race, ethnicity, or religion, disliking someone based purely and Ra, Eth, or Re. Thinking you are superior to a specific group of people.

Xenophobia, is an irrational fear of another race or ethnicity. We don't have mass scale immigration into our country, and we don't irrationally fear Albanians, so how does that make us "technically" xenophobes. Are fears are not based on irrational imaginary circumstances, but real events that have happened.


You are mincing words and making light of a topic that could make all of us look like a bunch of bigots, which is exactly what the Greeks are, and why we dislike them. Again looking like a bunch of hypocrites wont help anything.


[QUOTE=Volokin;152515]"Racism" about a certain group of people is really just generalizations, stereotypes. Nothing more, nothing less, let's move on to more important things.

I find the whole concept of the word racism stupid. It's like calling someone a xenophobe because they wish to retain their countries cultural and ethnic history. Going off topic slightly here, but literally most people are then xenophobes. You'd have to be a quite ridiculously liberal pacifist to not show signs of discontent at large scale migration/immigration into one's country.

Anyway...[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=sydney;152512]Yes, very inspirational. Let's suck eggs for another 100 years.[/QUOTE]

Grow up man.

Vulgarity does make you seem tough or patriotic, it just make you look immature and idiotic. Or as we would say in Macedonian a Seljak or as I prefer Seljachina. Just let it go.

Goce, it's not about a show or chest puffing. Some of us prefer to express ourselves in less moderate terms. Big shit. The message is the same i.e. where has our civility taken us? Where has the softly softly approach made a difference in either internal or external matters? Maybe you're right, there are too many seljaci for any real progress.

[QUOTE=sydney;152521]Goce, it's not about a show or chest puffing. Some of us prefer to express ourselves in less moderate terms. Big shit. The message is the same i.e. where has our civility taken us? Where has the softly softly approach made a difference in either internal or external matters? Maybe you're right, there are too many seljaci for any real progress.[/QUOTE]

So what are you proposing then? If being civil is too "softy" as you put it, then what is the right way?

In my opinion we have failed not because of a soft approach, but because of no approach at all.

[QUOTE=Gocka;152518]I think your taking serious topics lightly. Being racist and or xenophobic is not the same as making generalizations, it is a lot more than that. For you to simply brush off the concept of racism as something "stupid" is a bit worrying. Racism, can be many things, some of which can be: Unfair treatment based on race, ethnicity, or religion, disliking someone based purely and Ra, Eth, or Re. Thinking you are superior to a specific group of people.

Xenophobia, is an irrational fear of another race or ethnicity. We don't have mass scale immigration into our country, and we don't irrationally fear Albanians, so how does that make us "technically" xenophobes. Are fears are not based on irrational imaginary circumstances, but real events that have happened.


You are mincing words and making light of a topic that could make all of us look like a bunch of bigots, which is exactly what the Greeks are, and why we dislike them. Again looking like a bunch of hypocrites wont help anything.[/QUOTE]

I'm not making light of racism in any way. I'm scoffing at the fact that Macedonians are and will be called racist and xenophobic against the Albanian population, now and in years to come.

If the basis of racism is not generalizations and stereotypes at it's core, what is it then?

Nazi Germany applied the most extreme form of racism on the Jewish population and based on what? Hitler's irrational hate of the Jews, "due" to the common thought that the Jewish population were the reason for Germany's economic downfall and the Treaty of Versailles etc etc. Basically all down to the Jews being the scapegoat of Europe for many centuries, which had been ingrained in people's minds.

Xenophobia, simply, is the dislike of foreigners in one's country. Do the Macedonian people, by and large, like the Albanian population in the roMacedonia? My point being, to then call all of the Macedonian population xenophobic would be wrong, because the whole concept is so individual to certain situations, which is wrong in Macedonian's case.

[QUOTE=Constellation;152509]It is a bit amusing how Macedonians decry the racist treatment towards them from Greeks and the international press, and yet many Macedonians have no compunction about doing the same to people they dislike.

No one is saying there aren't problems with Albanians in Macedonia, or Albanian territorial ambitions in the Balkans. But using obscene language against this people is not going to improve relations between the nations.

You need lessons in manners and civility mate.[/QUOTE]

Just like how the bulgarian slavs cry for more freedom in republic of macedonia but refuse to even recognize macedonian people in Bulgaria or let them live in peace. The irony from you silly bulgies

What does the regular bulgarian slav also think of the roma people that live in Bulgaria? I will give you a hint: their dark fantasies of how they would solve the roma 'problem' would even make Hitler blush.

Stop acting all high and mighty. You guys were Nazi's as well so you cant talk

And also LOL at you thinking one macedonians opinion on shiptars on this forum is ok to be used to paint all macedonians the same.

[QUOTE=Big Bad Sven;152531]Just like how the bulgarian slavs cry for more freedom in republic of macedonia but refuse to even recognize macedonian people in Bulgaria or let them live in peace. The irony from you silly bulgies

What does the regular bulgarian slav also think of the roma people that live in Bulgaria? I will give you a hint: their dark fantasies of how they would solve the roma 'problem' would even make Hitler blush.

Stop acting all high and mighty. You guys were Nazi's as well so you cant talk

And also LOL at you thinking one macedonians opinion on shiptars on this forum is ok to be used to paint all macedonians the same.[/QUOTE]

Where should I start? First, I am not Bulgarian, so 99% of what you wrote has no bearing on this thread or conversation.

Second, it was not one Macedonian's opinion. It is more than one.

Third, I am not, not by any means, suggesting all Macedonians use obscene language against racial groups they dislike. I am merely pointing out the double standards.

all minorities in macedonia have never had it so good.The albanians are by no means an exception.THey enjoy not only citizenship rights but priveleges in addition.It makes a mockery in a democracy for the albanians to receive them with so many rights and priveleges..

Far too many people have told me that ethnic Albanians in Macedonia (in Governmental jobs) are typically more efficient than Macedonians. They are more inclined to work strictly in accordance with legislation when it comes to fulfilling the tasks of their jobs and they seem to get things done in a more expedient manner.

Macedonians (particularly Government employees with strong Jesus complexes) prefer to bypass anything resembling responsibility on a daily basis.

So when I hear about Macedonians complaining about ethnic Albanians, I am loathe to accept generalisations about them or us. What is abundantly clear is that nothing has worked to date.

There was a time when Macedonians were grateful for the help that the poorest of poor Albanians gave to them when they fled from Greek atrocities in Macedonia.

I'm tired of falling into the trap that all Albanians are bad. My experience with Macedonians is that [B]some[/B] are dim-witted and evil and useless. But I am not prepared to believe all are. I am sure the same applies to Albanians.

Macedonia has a unique position in the Balkans and can use its ethnic Albanian minority to its advantage. But the mentality needs to change. Having said that, the Macedonian language is the key to harmonising the people of Macedonia and must be part of the solution.