Gents, I've been reading your posts regarding this issue and I've just got one point to make. My ancestry goes back to Lerin and Polog in the
Mariovo province so I've always got my Macedonian hat on.

However, gruveski ancestry relates back to ovcarani. A village and essentially an area of land which had been occupied by Greeks for the last 100 years, and for these last 100 years it has been denied by the greeks for so long that Macedonians do not exist there. I remember in 2008 gruveski stated strongly regarding the Macedonian minority in Greece and how Greece has treated them so poorly for so many years. Now don't get me wrong here but if gruveski starts clamping down on macedonia's biggest minority and their rights as a minority, don't you think he'll look like a hypocrite to the rest of the world? Just a thought!!!:macedonia

[QUOTE]However, gruveski ancestry relates back to ovcarani. [/QUOTE]
Actually Gruevski's ancestry is from Krushodari and Setina

[QUOTE]A village and essentially an area of land which had been occupied by Greeks for the last 100 years, and for these last 100 years it has been denied by the greeks for so long that Macedonians do not exist there.[/QUOTE]
Macedonians do exist there and they are the strongest in Ovcharani

[QUOTE]I remember in 2008 gruveski stated strongly regarding the Macedonian minority in Greece and how Greece has treated them so poorly for so many years. [/QUOTE]

All he did was send a letter. This was just politics so that he can score some points at home. As far as I am concerned Gruevski does not care how the Macedonian minority is treated.

[QUOTE]Now don't get me wrong here but if gruveski starts clamping down on macedonia's biggest minority and their rights as a minority, don't you think he'll look like a hypocrite to the rest of the world? Just a thought!!!:macedonia[/QUOTE]

What are you talking about? Albanians have all the human rights they need. What we are talking about in this thread is treason and violations to Macedonian sovereignty.

Human rights include the right to identity, right to learn your native language after the Macedonian language, and right to organize into cultural associations, etc.

Waving Albanian flags on government buildings are not human rights. Changing municipal borders to raise the Albanian population and impose the Albanian language on Macedonians are not human rights. Celebrating Kosovo's and Albania's independence day to fuel separatist feelings is not a human right. Drawing a map of greater Albania on buildings is not a human right. Building statues of people not related to Macedonia and naming schools after murderers from UCK and building mosques in every city without permits with money from Saudi Arabian extremists are not human rights.

And unlike Aegean Macedonians, Albanians were never persecuted in Macedonia. Albanians have enjoyed human rights since 1944. Macedonia did not change their names or did not try to Christianize them and the Albanian identity was never threatened, it was protected. Macedonia has always protected the Albanians, their culture and language. If anyone does not agree, please show us proof where Albanians were denied to learn Albanian or were not allowed to call themselves Albanians.

And finally, Macedonians did not annex Albanian lands. Albania was the one that annexed Macedonian land along with 50+ villages along the Macedonian-Albanian border after 1913.

So please do not compare the Albanian minority with the Macedonian minority in Greece

[QUOTE=Niko777;121297]What are you talking about? Albanians have all the human rights they need. What we are talking about in this thread is treason and violations to Macedonian sovereignty.

Human rights include the right to identity, right to learn your native language after the Macedonian language, and right to organize into cultural associations, etc.

Waving Albanian flags on government buildings are not human rights. Changing municipal borders to raise the Albanian population and impose the Albanian language on Macedonians are not human rights. Celebrating Kosovo's and Albania's independence day to fuel separatist feelings is not a human right. Drawing a map of greater Albania on buildings is not a human right. Building statues of people not related to Macedonia and naming schools after murderers from UCK and building mosques in every city without permits with money from Saudi Arabian extremists are not human rights.[/QUOTE]

Exactly right.
Pavle, get off the grog.

[QUOTE=Voltron;121283]I read about this the other day in the Greek press. What I dont get is why dont the Serbs declare Republic of Srpska in Bosnia. They should officially split already.
If the Albanians in Kosovo think they can join Albania they should kiss Northern Kosovo good bye in the process. Thats where all the minerals and resources are, they are bluffing.[/QUOTE]

Exactly right Voltron.
I've always hated the way people refer to Bosnia as if it's one place and always belonged to the 'Bosnians who are muslin' - fete accompli!

It is the Bosnia area and the Herzegovina area merged by Tito to form a republic within the Federation of Yugoslavia - it was Never just Bosnia and all belonging to one group ie 'Bosnians', that's why under Yugoslavia the republic was called Bosnia-Herzegovina and NOT just Bosnia. [B]It's so much yummy to just swallow up someone else's land, re-name it and claim it's yours since God created it - something the Balkan neighbours are good at doing.[/B] Bosnia is a total artificially contrived fabrication by the West to keep tension in the area and support the Muslims (USA policy) - remember when all the parties (Serbia, Croatia and the "Bosnian Muslims") wanted to split Bosnia-Herzegovina along ethnic lines and negotiate a 'tit-for-tat' land swap for those villages that were away from the main bulk of land of their ethnic group? The USA forcibly put a stop to any splitting of Bosnia-Herzegivina and left a permanent tension in the area because the USA wanted to loot all the resources there and leave a weak easily manipulated puppet government.

In a practical sense splinting Bosnia-Herzegovina makes sense especially since there never really was a true Bosnian identity (Croatian/Dalmatian, Serbian, and Bosnian Muslim who I think are mostly converted Serbs?) but Kosovo was Serbian.

If the Serbians want to go down that line with Kosovo (like putting shit in your mouth) then they should grab every bit they can of those villages still holding out bravely AND ALSO those owned by Serbs but ethnically cleansed by the Albanians to maximise their portion.

ProMKD Post1716
[QUOTE]Don't read too much into this BS about 'lawmakers in kosovo'.[/QUOTE]

Don't be such a denier. What do you think the merging of councils in Western Macedonia and Albanians buying up land is for??? Don't the Albanians say it (Greater Albania) to your face everyday?

[QUOTE]First of all, there is no such thing as law in Kosovo.[/QUOTE]

It might be the law of the Mafia there but technically Kosovo is recognise by the USA and the West and a parliament does exists so even if they pick the village idiot with a ring in his nose to be the puppet, laws can be passed. And this does NOT sound good for Macedonia. I cannot understand this attitude in Macedonia that if the Albnians haven't actually said we ARE doing this or we HAVE DONE this it's like it doesn't exist or 'as if that would ever happen'.

[QUOTE]Secondly, albania is now in NATO and would never even entertain such requests,[/QUOTE]

WTF??? What does Albania being in NATO have to do with or not entertaining the idea of 'Greater Albania' and securing most of, if not all of Kosovo with the future likelihood of Western Macedonia?

I have no idea what you are talking about, and I sometimes wonder if you (and RoM) do? It's all happening under your noses and Gruevski is helping to fund it. Think beyond today and this week - the Albanians plan in terms of decades beginning with the split from Yugoslavia. It's already more than 10 years since the conflict and is this thread not full of the Albanians' piece by piece actions of Albanizing Macedonia and then the next logical step to split?

[QUOTE]so why should Macedonia?[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying Macedonia should entertain such ideas but should not ignore them less Macedonia be forced to entertain such ideas in the future.

[QUOTE]Our government should only speak out when our nation or borders are threatened, like earlier last week when those comments were made from prishtina.[/QUOTE]

WTF?

Taka, kutejtesi - i Albancite sakkat mir - oti da ne, polesno e da ebis nekojgo koj ke ne se protivi.

Wasn´t the Sandzhak of Hercegovina part of the Sandzhak of Bosnia during Ottoman times?
Wasn´t Bosnia Hercegovina seen as one entity during the time of Autro-Hungarian empire? Divided in 6 districs?
If Bosnia and the Bosnians was a creation of Tito then Macedonia and the Macedonians also was a creation of Tito. :001_smile::001_smile::001_smile: Damn..the Greeks and Bulgarians have been right all this time;)

[QUOTE=slovenec zrinski;121395]Wasn´t the Sandzhak of Hercegovina part of the Sandzhak of Bosnia during Ottoman times?
Wasn´t Bosnia Hercegovina seen as one entity during the time of Autro-Hungarian empire? Divided in 6 districs?
If Bosnia and the Bosnians was a creation of Tito then Macedonia and the Macedonians also was a creation of Tito. :001_smile::001_smile::001_smile: Damn..the Greeks and Bulgarians have been right all this time;)[/QUOTE]

hahahaha..........don't be so cheeky!

RTG you are right about albanian righhts they allways had them but they want more rights & more priveleges to the point they are threatening us.

I am in a cheeky mood today Makedonche:)

[QUOTE=slovenec zrinski;121403]I am in a cheeky mood today Makedonche:)[/QUOTE]

"Cheeky" is the word.[IMG]http://www.beyondbooks.com/images/left/left08.gif[/IMG]
Yeah, yeah, technicalities. I was over generalising.

Being "seen" is one thing but having two names means 2 parts no matter where the 'border' was pushed back and forth and by whom.