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-   -   Albanianization in Macedonia (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4837)

George S. 09-13-2012 03:12 PM

Epirot you guys can't get behind square one in your discussions you are confusing priveleges with rights.You talk of a homeland for macedonians as being also the homeland of different ethnicities.That 's where the argument has derailed you can't accept the fact that
minorities can be coexisting as minorities be they any sort of ethnicity but the dominant one is still macedonian.But from Ohrid framework agreement comes absurdities like priveleges to second language & other absurdities.Have you seen the thread earlier on the albanians are bipassing learning macedonian alltogether & learning only about albanian.Also in the books nothing is taught about macedonia only about a greater albania.This is thanks to the hrid framework agreement.Epirot here's where i say good riddance to a maggot & cockroach who doesn't know what he is talking about.What is albanians giving in return to macedonia for ""cooperating"" by getting all these priveleges absolutely nothing!.You still hate & show no respect for us macedonians.Keep it like that so that we'll know who we are fighting.

Niko777 09-13-2012 04:41 PM

Today, Gostivar's city administration announced it will implement plans to rename all of its 80 streets and boulevards after UCK fighters.

Risto the Great 09-13-2012 09:20 PM

[QUOTE=Niko777;133720]Today, Gostivar's city administration announced it will implement plans to rename all of its 80 streets and boulevards after UCK fighters.[/QUOTE]
There should not even be local government in Macedonia.

George S. 09-14-2012 01:18 AM

Macedonia has 84 municipalities.by way of comparison australia has only 28 municipalities.

chentovist 09-14-2012 01:38 AM

[QUOTE=George S.;133729]Macedonia has 84 municipalities.by way of comparison australia has only 28 municipalities.[/QUOTE]

Acutally Australia has about 560 local councils. Municipalities are just one form of local council..others include Shires, Towns, Cities....

George S. 09-14-2012 04:06 AM

Macedonia still has a lot compared to the landsize.When they were formed the coments were that they are too much for the small size country.Albanian s are using local municipalities to their sdvantage maybe they should do away with them.

Soldier of Macedon 09-14-2012 10:47 AM

[QUOTE="Epirot"]I'd never say that Albania is ethnically homogeneous as long as the national minorities are recognized in constitutional basis.[/QUOTE]
But it is still the national home of the Albanians, where their culture and language are nurtuted and considered prevalent. Are you implying that Macedonians don't deserve to have the same in their national home?
[QUOTE]It appears that my point was not taken properly. If I am not mistaken, the constitution of 1971 postulated Macedonia as the homeland of both Macedonians, Albanians and Turks, by declaring them as equal.[/QUOTE]
It is the home of all of its citizens. But it is also the [U]national[/U] home of Macedonians. The national home of Albanians is Albania. The national home of Turks is Turkey. Do you understand that?
[QUOTE]If we are to compare the constitution of 1991, we realize that it has fundamentally changed by not taking in account the multi-ethnic being of Macedonia.[/QUOTE]
Rubbish. The other ethnicities are regarded as equal citizens, and the Albanians, Turks, Vlachs and Roma are even mentioned by name. Here is what was written in 1991:

[COLOR="Red"][I]Taking as starting points the historical, cultural, spiritual and statehood heritage of the Macedonian people and their struggle over centuries for national and social freedom as well as the creation of their own state, and particularly the traditions of statehood and legality of the Krushevo Republic and the historic decisions of the Anti-Fascist Assembly of the People's Liberation of Macedonia, together with the constitutional and legal continuity of the Macedonian state as a sovereign republic within Federal Yugoslavia and freely manifested will of the citizens of the Republic of Macedonia in the referendum of 8 Sep 1991, as well as the historical fact that[U] Macedonia is established as a [B]national state of the Macedonian people[/B], in which [B]full equality as citizens and permanent co-existence[/B] with the Macedonian people is provided [B]for Albanians, Turks, Vlachs, Romanics and other nationalities[/B] living in the Republic of Macedonia...........the provision of peace and a [B]common home for the Macedonian people with the nationalities living in the Republic of Macedonia[/B]......[/I][/U][/COLOR]

It can even be argued that the above was too much if we compare to our neighbours. Does the Albanian constitution mention its minorities by name? Does the Serbian constitution, or Greek constitution, or Bulgarian constitution? Does the amended and watered-down version (cited below) read any better for Albanians, aside from entirely omitting the obvious fact that Macedonia is the national home of the Macedonian people?

[I][COLOR="Blue"]The citizens of the Republic of Macedonia, the Macedonian people, as well as citizens living within its borders who are part of the Albanian people, the Turkish people, the Vlach people, the Serbian people, the Romany people, the Bosniak people and others taking responsibility for the present and future of their fatherland, aware of and grateful to their predecessors for their sacrifice and dedication in their endeavours and struggle to create an independent and sovereign state of Macedonia, and responsible to future generations to preserve and develop everything that is valuable from the rich cultural inheritance and coexistence within Macedonia, equal in rights and obligations towards the common good - the Republic of Macedonia - in accordance with the tradition of the Krushevo Republic and the decisions of the Antifascist People’s Liberation Assembly of Macedonia, and the Referendum of September 8, 1991, have decided to establish the Republic of Macedonia as an independent, sovereign state, with the intention of establishing and consolidating the rule of law, guaranteeing human rights and civil liberties, providing peace and coexistence, social justice, economic well-being and prosperity in the life of the individual and the community, and, in this regard, through their representatives in the Assembly of the Republic of Macedonia, elected in free and democratic elections, adopt...........[/COLOR][/I]

We even have reference to the sacrifice and dedication of people who struggled to create an independent and sovereign state of Macedonia. The only other people (aside from Macedonians) in Macedonia that really provided a degree of help were the Vlachs. How many Albanians, Turks, Serbs or Bosniaks struggled for such a cause?

[QUOTE="Epirot"]The patriots of both sides soon understood they were surrounded by aggressive nationalism (Serbian, Bulgarian and Greek ones).[/QUOTE]
Macedonians were also surrounded by aggressive Albanians, some being Ottoman lackeys, others being chauvinistic nationalists.
[QUOTE]Even the Aubrey Herbert and Moses Gaster did their best to advocate an independent Macedonian state.[/QUOTE]
Neither Herbert or Gaster were Albanians.
[QUOTE]Appeal of the "National Macedonian-Albanian League" Brother Macedonians! Brother Albanians! ...There is no need that the Bulgarians, the Greeks or others amend our homeland... Executive Committee British Museum (British Library), London, 1902

[url]http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/Co...Documents.html[/url][/QUOTE]
That looks more like Macedonians trying to appeal to Albanians rather than the other way around, just like in the Ilinden Uprising. Again I will ask, can you name any ethnic Albanians that willingly fought for an independent Macedonian state?
[QUOTE]Some Albanians took the side of Ottomans rather to escape from poverty. Yet those Albanians were insignificant comparing to the rest who struggled against Ottomans.[/QUOTE]
You're either deliberty downplaying the significance or being naive. It is well known that Albanians swelled the ranks of the Bashibozuk irregulars in the Balkans. The few Albanians who may have supported a Macedonian state are invisible compared to those Ottoman lackeys.

George S. 09-14-2012 03:54 PM

Epirot can i go to albania & demand a secession of mala prespa for the greater Macedonia??Can i do the very things you guys are doing in macedonia.Can i argue that albania is not the homeland of albanians.Can i just create my own artificial country within a country.If i want can my language be no2 like yours & i don't have to speak albanian.Also i want my own university to teach macedonian.I want my own passports, my own army ,my own police etcWhat does that tell you i'm taking over your country.

The LION will ROAR 09-14-2012 05:24 PM

[IMG]http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/561002_386389521429928_39765736_n.jpg[/IMG]

No comments needed

Epirot 09-14-2012 05:58 PM

[QUOTE=George S.;133740][B]Epirot can i go to albania & demand a secession of mala prespa for the greater Macedonia??[/B]Can i do the very things you guys are doing in macedonia.Can i argue that albania is not the homeland of albanians.Can i just create my own artificial country within a country.If i want can my language be no2 like yours & i don't have to speak albanian.Also i want my own university to teach macedonian.I want my own passports, my own army ,my own police etcWhat does that tell you i'm taking over your country.[/QUOTE]

Follow my answer ( #406) which I made a long time ago:

[url]http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=112494#post112494[/url]

The exchange of territories was a proposal by a Macedonian academic!


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