What do you all think of Macedonia's official coat of arms?

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_emblem_of_the_Republic_of_Macedonia[/url]

[QUOTE=Carlin15;177855]What do you all think of Macedonia's official coat of arms?

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_emblem_of_the_Republic_of_Macedonia[/url][/QUOTE]

Bit weak, would much prefer the lion.

Some Macedonians seem to like the flag.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/SUMf2ku.png[/img]

[I]Macedonia wins the title of Best-Looking Flag[/I]

URL:
[url]https://theprovince.com/travel/macedonia-wins-the-title-of-best-looking-flag[/url]

We wanted to see how our Maple Leaf measured up against other world flags in terms of design.

For the past three weeks, we’ve run a little tournament to determine which country has the best-looking flag.

And now, we have our winner: Macedonia.

The single-elimination knockout tournament started with 64 flags and used online voting to determine winners in each round. The Maple Leaf fared well in victories over Iceland, Egypt, Australia and the Netherlands before running into Macedonia in the semifinals.

[B]It seems Macedonians caught wind of the contest sometime around the quarterfinals[/B], when a huge wave of support for that flag began to build, carrying the Balkan republic past Switzerland, Canada and finally the United Kingdom. The final tally in the championship round was 13,190 for Macedonia to 858 for the U.K.

[B]Overwhelming wins for Macedonia in the last three rounds suggested a semi-organized campaign was at work, but that’s OK. After all, what is a flag for, if not to rally behind?[/B]

[QUOTE=Carlin15;178719]Some Macedonians seem to like the flag.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/SUMf2ku.png[/img]

[I]Macedonia wins the title of Best-Looking Flag[/I]

URL:
[url]https://theprovince.com/travel/macedonia-wins-the-title-of-best-looking-flag[/url]

We wanted to see how our Maple Leaf measured up against other world flags in terms of design.

For the past three weeks, we’ve run a little tournament to determine which country has the best-looking flag.

And now, we have our winner: Macedonia.

The single-elimination knockout tournament started with 64 flags and used online voting to determine winners in each round. The Maple Leaf fared well in victories over Iceland, Egypt, Australia and the Netherlands before running into Macedonia in the semifinals.

[B]It seems Macedonians caught wind of the contest sometime around the quarterfinals[/B], when a huge wave of support for that flag began to build, carrying the Balkan republic past Switzerland, Canada and finally the United Kingdom. The final tally in the championship round was 13,190 for Macedonia to 858 for the U.K.

[B]Overwhelming wins for Macedonia in the last three rounds suggested a semi-organized campaign was at work, but that’s OK. After all, what is a flag for, if not to rally behind?[/B][/QUOTE]

It's not a bad design, certainly unique but personally pisses me off.

[QUOTE=nushevski77;178764]Same. I think its more of what it represents and how it came about that pisses me off whenever I see it, I like the real flag from 1992-1995, I think it would of won the competition as well.[/QUOTE]

Yeah agree, more what it symbolises than the design itself. Our true flag is far more aesthetically appealing too.

[QUOTE=nushevski77;178779]could you ever see a situation where the real flag is brought back officially? I can not, but it would be truly amazing.[/QUOTE]

Considering the government is changing the name, identity, language and historiography of the country I think I would be mad to believe we'd reinstate our real flag

When was the first recorded use of the real/true flag?

[QUOTE=Carlin15;179029]When was the first recorded use of the real/true flag?[/QUOTE]

Excellent question. I've seen photos/videos of its use dating to the late 80s. Yet to come across any from before then but the sun as a symbol itself has been in use for over a century and the Кutleš style had been appearing in churches for centuries.

About the Macedonian Sun

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1q91MpeMyQ[/url]

[QUOTE=Liberator of Makedonija;179033]Excellent question. I've seen photos/videos of its use dating to the late 80s. Yet to come across any from before then but the sun as a symbol itself has been in use for over a century and the Кutleš style had been appearing in churches for centuries.[/QUOTE]

So no earlier than late 80s.

[QUOTE=Carlin15;178719]Some Macedonians seem to like the flag.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/SUMf2ku.png[/img]

[I]Macedonia wins the title of Best-Looking Flag[/I]

URL:
[url]https://theprovince.com/travel/macedonia-wins-the-title-of-best-looking-flag[/url]

We wanted to see how our Maple Leaf measured up against other world flags in terms of design.

For the past three weeks, we’ve run a little tournament to determine which country has the best-looking flag.

And now, we have our winner: Macedonia.

The single-elimination knockout tournament started with 64 flags and used online voting to determine winners in each round. The Maple Leaf fared well in victories over Iceland, Egypt, Australia and the Netherlands before running into Macedonia in the semifinals.

[B]It seems Macedonians caught wind of the contest sometime around the quarterfinals[/B], when a huge wave of support for that flag began to build, carrying the Balkan republic past Switzerland, Canada and finally the United Kingdom. The final tally in the championship round was 13,190 for Macedonia to 858 for the U.K.

[B]Overwhelming wins for Macedonia in the last three rounds suggested a semi-organized campaign was at work, but that’s OK. After all, what is a flag for, if not to rally behind?[/B][/QUOTE]



I think the voting was done by non Macedonians and probably mistook it for a variant of the Japanese Kamikaze flag.

Only Macedonians that would like that flag are the ones who were for a name change and selling their identity for free.

Fuck the ventilator and Miroslav Grchev the dog.

[QUOTE=Liberator of Makedonija;178774]Yeah agree, more what it symbolises than the design itself. Our true flag is far more aesthetically appealing too.[/QUOTE]

The design is a mock up of the kamikaze flag.

[QUOTE=Carlin15;179037]So no earlier than late 80s.[/QUOTE]

It was first linked to Ancient Macedonia in 1977 when the Royal Tomb in Kutlesh was unearthed.

Other than that it is found all over Macedonia including Orthodox churches.

[QUOTE=Carlin15;179037]So no earlier than late 80s.[/QUOTE]

I am yet to see evidence of it prior to then. But keep in mind I am referring soley to the sun in its Kutleš form on a red background. Variants had been used for over a century prior.

I assume Macedonians started using it first with the red background before the Greeks with the blue?

[QUOTE=sydney;179058]I assume Macedonians started using it first with the red background before the Greeks with the blue?[/QUOTE]

Oh yeah. I don't think I've seen the blue variant used prior to 1991.

[QUOTE=Carlin15;179037]Some Macedonians seem to like the flag.[/QUOTE]
Excuse my sarcasm Carlin but some Macedonians also seem to like the name North Macedonia. It doesn't make it right. The flag represents all that is shitty with the republic and its "citizens".

[QUOTE=VMRO;179046]Only Macedonians that would like that flag are the ones who were for a name change and selling their identity for free. Fuck the ventilator and Miroslav Grchev the dog.[/QUOTE]
100% agree. Grchev has a lot to answer for. But, if I'm being honest, that anti-Macedonian cunt did manage to produce a decent proposal for the Macedonian coat of arms. It has all the traditional elements in what Macedonians see as their rightful coat of arms:[LIST][*]The rampant golden lion on a red background[*]The twin tail element of the lion that is present on most medieval depictions &[*]The crown atop of the lion's head symbolising the ancient kingdom of Macedonia (really odd, considering Grchev's opposition to the republic having any association with Ancient Macedonia)[/LIST][IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Macedonian_lion.svg[/IMG]
He pretty much nailed it with this one...But he's still a cunt in my book.

[QUOTE=Carlin15;179037] When was the first recorded use of the real/true flag?[/QUOTE]
Well, since a flag is technically just a symbol or an emblem representing a country or a people, then around the 300's B.C. is a safe bet (but earlier of course)...Besides being stamped on various parts of their body armour as national adornments (including helmets), the most prominent place was displayed on shields. Being an easily recognisable symbol of the Macedonians, soldiers proudly carried it on their shields to announce to their enemies that they were Macedonians.

[QUOTE=Carlin15;179037]So no earlier than late 80s.[/QUOTE]
Speaking of the symbol itself, as apposed to just an official flag of a recognised political state, the Macedonian sun symbol has a tradition going back centuries among Macedonians. You can see its presence on churches frescoes, religious icons, folkloric art and even church bells.
[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Izvora-church-bell-closeup.jpg[/IMG]

I got the above image from a previous thread on this forum and the discussions there revealed the origins of this bell to be from the year 1904. The inclusion of this ancient Macedonian sun symbol with the word "MAKEDONIA" and the crucifix is no coincidence I feel. Although the Greek archaeologist, Manolis Andronicos, "discovered" the symbol as a clear emblem of the Ancient Macedonians back in 1977, the Macedonian bell maker who made this bell must have had some sense of the symbol's significance and connection with Macedonia and the Macedonian people. Otherwise he wouldn't have gone to the trouble of stamping it on there. I don't know, call it a sixth sense if you like but just because the significance of it's association with Macedonia and the Macedonian people was lost over the centuries, it's quite clear that it's usage remained among the people as seen in many of the examples I have described above.

[QUOTE=Karposh;179120] 100% agree. Grchev has a lot to answer for. But, if I'm being honest, that anti-Macedonian cunt did manage to produce a decent proposal for the Macedonian coat of arms. It has all the traditional elements in what Macedonians see as their rightful coat of arms:[LIST][*]The rampant golden lion on a red background[*]The twin tail element of the lion that is present on most medieval depictions &[*]The crown atop of the lion's head symbolising the ancient kingdom of Macedonia (really odd, considering Grchev's opposition to the republic having any association with Ancient Macedonia)[/LIST][IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Macedonian_lion.svg[/IMG]
He pretty much nailed it with this one...But he's still a cunt in my book. [/QUOTE]

Would much prefer this as our coat of arms, especially as it has been used as such since at least the 14th century. Possibly earlier but I have not encountered heraldry before this.

[QUOTE=Karposh;179120] Speaking of the symbol itself, as apposed to just an official flag of a recognised political state, the Macedonian sun symbol has a tradition going back centuries among Macedonians. You can see its presence on churches frescoes, religious icons, folkloric art and even church bells.
[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Izvora-church-bell-closeup.jpg[/IMG]

I got the above image from a previous thread on this forum and the discussions there revealed the origins of this bell to be from the year 1904. The inclusion of this ancient Macedonian sun symbol with the word "MAKEDONIA" and the crucifix is no coincidence I feel. Although the Greek archaeologist, Manolis Andronicos, "discovered" the symbol as a clear emblem of the Ancient Macedonians back in 1977, the Macedonian bell maker who made this bell must have had some sense of the symbol's significance and connection with Macedonia and the Macedonian people. Otherwise he wouldn't have gone to the trouble of stamping it on there. I don't know, call it a sixth sense if you like but just because the significance of it's association with Macedonia and the Macedonian people was lost over the centuries, it's quite clear that it's usage remained among the people as seen in many of the examples I have described above.[/QUOTE]

This is one of the examples I was talking about. This bell is from the the village of Gorno Brodi near Ser.

I've never seen this flag before. Photo of Alexandrina Ivanova from Nevrokop, Pirinsko

[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Alexandrina_Ivanova_Postcard.jpg[/IMG]

They don't make women like they used to!

[img]https://i.imgur.com/LuwTDq8.jpg[/img]

Cedi Osman (born April 8, 1995 in Ohrid, Macedonia) is a Turkish professional basketball player. He was born to an ethnic Turkish father and a Bosniak mother (from Novi Pazar, Serbia).

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cedi_Osman[/url]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but the Church of St Demetrius in Bitola has the Macedonian sun on its pillars. You can see it briefly at about 0:38 seconds in this video. This Church was built in around 1830.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQbm7-pwFRo[/url]


Its also mentioned in this episode of Mario's History Talks where I found it out.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1q91MpeMyQ[/url]

[QUOTE=Karposh;179120]Excuse my sarcasm Carlin but some Macedonians also seem to like the name North Macedonia. It doesn't make it right. The flag represents all that is shitty with the republic and its "citizens".


100% agree. Grchev has a lot to answer for. But, if I'm being honest, that anti-Macedonian cunt did manage to produce a decent proposal for the Macedonian coat of arms. It has all the traditional elements in what Macedonians see as their rightful coat of arms:[LIST][*]The rampant golden lion on a red background[*]The twin tail element of the lion that is present on most medieval depictions &[*]The crown atop of the lion's head symbolising the ancient kingdom of Macedonia (really odd, considering Grchev's opposition to the republic having any association with Ancient Macedonia)[/LIST][IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Macedonian_lion.svg[/IMG]
He pretty much nailed it with this one...But he's still a cunt in my book.


Well, since a flag is technically just a symbol or an emblem representing a country or a people, then around the 300's B.C. is a safe bet (but earlier of course)...Besides being stamped on various parts of their body armour as national adornments (including helmets), the most prominent place was displayed on shields. Being an easily recognisable symbol of the Macedonians, soldiers proudly carried it on their shields to announce to their enemies that they were Macedonians.


Speaking of the symbol itself, as apposed to just an official flag of a recognised political state, the Macedonian sun symbol has a tradition going back centuries among Macedonians. You can see its presence on churches frescoes, religious icons, folkloric art and even church bells.
[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Izvora-church-bell-closeup.jpg[/IMG]

I got the above image from a previous thread on this forum and the discussions there revealed the origins of this bell to be from the year 1904. The inclusion of this ancient Macedonian sun symbol with the word "MAKEDONIA" and the crucifix is no coincidence I feel. Although the Greek archaeologist, Manolis Andronicos, "discovered" the symbol as a clear emblem of the Ancient Macedonians back in 1977, the Macedonian bell maker who made this bell must have had some sense of the symbol's significance and connection with Macedonia and the Macedonian people. Otherwise he wouldn't have gone to the trouble of stamping it on there. I don't know, call it a sixth sense if you like but just because the significance of it's association with Macedonia and the Macedonian people was lost over the centuries, it's quite clear that it's usage remained among the people as seen in many of the examples I have described above.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Momce Makedonce;179733]Not sure if this has been mentioned but the Church of St Demetrius in Bitola has the Macedonian sun on its pillars. You can see it briefly at about 0:38 seconds in this video. This Church was built in around 1830.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQbm7-pwFRo[/url]


Its also mentioned in this episode of Mario's History Talks where I found it out.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1q91MpeMyQ[/url][/QUOTE]


Yes it appears on quite a lot of churches from that period and in various variants from the centuries prior.

[QUOTE=VMRO;179046]I think the voting was done by non Macedonians and probably mistook it for a variant of the Japanese Kamikaze flag.

Only Macedonians that would like that flag are the ones who were for a name change and selling their identity for free.

Fuck the ventilator and Miroslav Grchev the dog.[/QUOTE]

Sadly we have people in their teens, 20s and even early to mid 30's who love the flag and dont know/forgetten about the old flag. Its all they have known and associated with. In the rare times i show disgust towards the ventilator i am seen as a mental patient.

It scares me becasue whats to say in 20-30 years the young macedonians will start freely calling themselvs northern macedonians and alexander the great and the ancient macedonians will be either forgotten or seen as foot stops in greek history.

[QUOTE=Big Bad Sven;179745]Sadly we have people in their teens, 20s and even early to mid 30's who love the flag and dont know/forgetten about the old flag. Its all they have known and associated with. In the rare times i show disgust towards the ventilator i am seen as a mental patient.

It scares me becasue whats to say in 20-30 years the young macedonians will start freely calling themselvs northern macedonians and alexander the great and the ancient macedonians will be either forgotten or seen as foot stops in greek history.[/QUOTE]

I've had similar idiots, when i point out who made that flag and what it actually stands for they too hate it.

I think there will be many who will want to burn it now after Macedonia became the North Korea in Europe.

[QUOTE=VMRO;179749]I've had similar idiots, when i point out who made that flag and what it actually stands for they too hate it.

I think there will be many who will want to burn it now after Macedonia became the North Korea in Europe.[/QUOTE]

I agree, the backlash against it is already being felt now that it's becoming associated with the current regime.

[QUOTE=Liberator of Makedonija;179750]I agree, the backlash against it is already being felt now that it's becoming associated with the current regime.[/QUOTE]

That flag isn't even worth wiping your arse on it.

From the diaspora you mean?

A modern recreation of a banner from the Tikveš Uprising (supposedly). Never seen the original, does anyone have a photo?

[IMG]https://i.vgy.me/FD05vu.png[/IMG]

Apparently the original ended up in the Museum of Belgrade, which burnt in 1941.

According to the partizanka Jamila Kolonomos, this was the first flag designed by the NLA Macedonia which was lost in battle near the end of the war. The request for the flag originally had it written in Serbian but it was printed in Macedonian by the designers.

[IMG]https://i.vgy.me/75N7mB.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Niko777;179544]I've never seen this flag before. Photo of Alexandrina Ivanova from Nevrokop, Pirinsko

[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Alexandrina_Ivanova_Postcard.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Where did you find this and do you know what organisation she belonged to?

[QUOTE=Liberator of Makedonija;180726]Where did you find this and do you know what organisation she belonged to?[/QUOTE]

She was apart of SMC

[QUOTE=VMRO;180728]She was apart of SMC[/QUOTE]

Had a feeling, the flag seemed to imply it

Flag of the Skopje četa.

[IMG]https://i.vgy.me/nZzyAf.jpg[/IMG]

Flag from Gorna Džumaja during the time of the Melnik Uprising.

[IMG]https://i.vgy.me/y5kjNu.jpg[/IMG]

Flag of the Second Macedonian Shock Brigade.

[IMG]https://i.vgy.me/tq0EQX.png[/IMG]

Artist's interpretation of the flag of the Provisional Government of Macedonia based on documentation from the time (c. 1881)

[IMG]https://i.vgy.me/NlIlbz.png[/IMG]

Does anyone know what flag this is? I took this photo recently when I was at the Museum of Macedonian struggle in Skopje. Photos weren’t allowed so I took it quickly but I’ve also forgotten what it said in the description. I’m interested because it looks like a Bulgarian flag which I found strange to see there. Pretty sure the description said something along the lines of “Flag of Ohrid 5th division/ battalion”.

I am having trouble uploading the photo, but it basically looks like a Bulgarian flag with some kind of crest on the top left corner and "M.O.B.N.O Gary and USA" on the top right

[QUOTE=Momce Makedonce;181436]Does anyone know what flag this is? I took this photo recently when I was at the Museum of Macedonian struggle in Skopje. Photos weren’t allowed so I took it quickly but I’ve also forgotten what it said in the description. I’m interested because it looks like a Bulgarian flag which I found strange to see there. Pretty sure the description said something along the lines of “Flag of Ohrid 5th division/ battalion”.

I am having trouble uploading the photo, but it basically looks like a Bulgarian flag with some kind of crest on the top left corner and "M.O.B.N.O Gary and USA" on the top right[/QUOTE]

That sounds like an MPO flag to me. Try using this site to post the picture here - [url]https://vgy.me/[/url]

[QUOTE=Liberator of Makedonija;181440]That sounds like an MPO flag to me. Try using this site to post the picture here - [url]https://vgy.me/[/url][/QUOTE] Thanks Liberator, this was the one.

[IMG]https://i.vgy.me/nBFaeu.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Momce Makedonce;181446]Thanks Liberator, this was the one.

[IMG]https://i.vgy.me/nBFaeu.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Yeah I've seen this before, believe it was commissioned by the MPO in its later years. Vic will likely know.