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-   -   Albanianization in Macedonia (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4837)

Bugi 03-11-2012 04:28 AM

[QUOTE=makgerman;122579]You are a lost cause with a typical Albanian "eye for an eye" way of thinking.
In Kosovo the shqiptars abused, threatened, swore, spat at the Macedonian junior team. Did the Macedonian burn your flag, start a demonstration - No.
How do the Macedonians mock the Islamic religion. Do we burn your mosques, do we destroy your graves?

The Macedonian flag should be respected by everyone who wants to regards themselves as part of Macedonia. If you worship the Albanian then go back to Albania.

I like many other people don't believe the current Australian flag represents the nation as a whole. There were times when a small percentage of Australians chanting racist comments against the "European Wogs". Did anyone burn the Australian flag?

Self defense against four drug dealers threatening and attacking a policeman in front of his daughter is acceptable to you?? Poor Albanian youths -four of them against a Macedonian policeman?
Imagine if it was the other way around. The shqiptars will have made sure the other two were dead also.

What you have today is what we have allowed you to have. It is time for the Macedonian people to wake up and insist on the government take the Albanian problem as a High Priority.

The Shqiptars main aim is to destroy Macedonia and none of this bullshit to live in a multicultural society where everyone will be treated equally. They are in the process of dividing Macedonia in the way they did to Serbia's Kosovo.[/QUOTE]

treated equally?
so why dont albanians dont have full rights as macedonians?
why the albanian language is not official on all state levels?

What we have today in Macedonia is what we fought for and got through blood!

if it wasnt for our struggle,you wouldnt give us anything!
you are contradicting yourself with this sentcence!

do you know how many times the albanian flag was burned?
as I said,start looking at the cause!

making fun of islamic values is a insult,you should have known better!

this is not Australia,this is the balkans,things here are a little bit more complicated...

Big Bad Sven 03-11-2012 04:31 AM

[QUOTE=Bugi;122556]When someone is pushed to the wall he doesnt have any other choice than to chose the bad but at that moment,the only choice!

Let me remind you that albanians arent just a minority in Macedonia,albanians are on those territories since pre recorded history,and they are more than 30% of the population-not exactly a minority...
serbs in Kosovo are 5% and they have serbian as official language on the entire territory of the country and in all levels of government!

if they didint take arms,the discrimination would have resumed,they only had the right to learn their language in elemantary school...
you know the protests that macedonians staged in 1997?
would you remind me what were they about?:blush:

other minorities got their rights thanks to the albanians...[/QUOTE]

You didnt answer the mans question, stop skirting around the issue with your stupid philosofical sayings and shiptars dreams about kosovo!

Tell us, what "discrimination" and "lack of rights" do shiptars face in macedonia today from the evil and nationalistic(lol) macedonian government?

Btw, its been a proven fact that shiptars dont make 30% of macedonia's population. If you take away for fabrication of cencuse results and the bullying of non-albanian muslims you get something closer to 17%, which was revealed to us last year....

Bugi 03-11-2012 04:32 AM

[QUOTE=Phoenix;122580]If the shiptari have this rabbit like reproductive capacity and have existed in Macedonia since "pre recorded history" (btw...how does he know this if it's been in a "[B][I]pre-recorded[/I][/B]" period?) wouldn't the shiptar population be much higher today, considering by comparison the lower birthrate of the Macedonians and the waves of Macedonian emigration in the period from the 1950's through to the 1970's.

Instead we have numerous accounts of outright fraud and irregularities in an attempt to quantify the shiptar numbers and recently we witnessed the failure to complete the last census.

If the shiptar numbers are so "high" why is there a need to manipulate the figures, surely the Macedonian landscape would resemble that of the ubiquitous battery hen farm and Macedonia would be awash with folk wearing egg shells on their heads...[/QUOTE]

today you have a bigger albanian-macedonian diaspora than a macedonian diaspora,so...

If it wasnt for the deportations of albanians from Serboslavian controlled Vardar Banovina,we would have been double the number we are today!

in royal and communist yugoslavia,about 250,000 albanian muslims are sent to Turkey under a series of treaties between the two states...

Skopje/Shkupi for example,before the serbian occupation in 1912,was a 60% muslim city!

Bugi 03-11-2012 04:41 AM

[QUOTE=Big Bad Sven;122589]You didnt answer the mans question, stop skirting around the issue with your stupid philosofical sayings and shiptars dreams about kosovo!

Tell us, what "discrimination" and "lack of rights" do shiptars face in macedonia today from the evil and nationalistic(lol) macedonian government?

Btw, its been a proven fact that shiptars dont make 30% of macedonia's population. If you take away for fabrication of cencuse results and the bullying of non-albanian muslims you get something closer to 17%, which was revealed to us last year....[/QUOTE]

I told you,the right to have the albanian language on all levels!

I gave you a clear fact from 2008/2009 from the state statistics department!

If we are 17% of the total population,then how can we make up 33% of the kids on the albanian program in primary schools?

that kind of young population structure doesnt even exist in Pakistan and Afghanistan:)

the number of albanian students in pre-school age,primary and highschool is about 150,000 !

If we are 17% of the total population-which is 340,000,how can we have a population under 18 years of age that numbers 45%?

As I said,not even Pakistan and Afghanistan have those numbers!

so it is more like we are around 550,000 or 30% under the age of 18-which means we make up 27-28% of the total population!

Bugi 03-11-2012 04:46 AM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;122581]I agree with you!
My turn:
Why should ethnic Albanians (as a minority) have more rights than Macedonians in accordance with the framework agreement?[/QUOTE]

well why should albanians be treated as a minority?

I would like to think more about the future,and the future shows that the albanians will grow in terms of the share in the macedonian population body,which means Macedonia will have find new ways in order to make the upcoming generation feel it as their own country!

thats the main problem,albanians dont feel wanted,they feel the state/government as foreign!

Bugi 03-11-2012 04:48 AM

[QUOTE=Big Bad Sven;122586]LOL you are pathetic!

The policeman was attacked by DRUG DEALERS in front of his OWN house, and they also threatened his own DAUGHTER!

There is no excuse for the 4 shiptar drug dealers for intimidating a policeman, but you are so blinded by hate and nationalism that you are willing to defend drug dealer criminals just because they are albanian.

You are pathetic[/QUOTE]

yea,drug dealers,and you saw everything,you knew who they were,right?

they said they attacked his kid,which later turned out to be false,then they said he fired a couple of warning shots,which again turned out to be false...now we have the drug dealer story!

Bugi 03-11-2012 04:54 AM

[QUOTE=Big Bad Sven;122587]But ancient macedonia extended as far as kosovo at its peak bre tikvar, and skopje was part of ancient macedonia too! And when the ancient macedonian kingdom fell apart im sure many ancient macedonians still lived in most of those places. When the ottoman empire collapsed there were still many turks in the balkans and arabic lands!

What makes you shiptars so special, that makes you guys "ethnically pure"? Your starting to sound like the modern "greeks'! Let me guess, you can trace your family tree back to the ancient Illyrians lol[/QUOTE]


we arent ethnically pure,but our background is Illyrian!
and all parts of Macedonia populated by albanians were Illyrian and Paeonian!

Skupi-Shkupi-capital of the illyrian dardani tribe!

ancient macedonians extended till India!
but all of that was OCCUPIED territory!

ancient Macedonia is in todays northern Greece and very small parts in Manastiri region!-Pelagonia

Bugi 03-11-2012 05:02 AM

[QUOTE=Big Bad Sven;122585]Lol albania does not recognize the macedonian republic, only as FYROM :)

Shiptars in macedonia dont recognize or accept our flag, want it changed, same as the name of macedonia.

In kosovo the shiptars treat the goranci like garbage and try to forcefully assimilate them.

You guys dont respect macedonia one bit.[/QUOTE]

Yea,you know how we treat Goranis,and why do you care about goranis anyways?

it would be strange if we dont asimilate them,we share the same religion!

I can tell you 3 personal cases where Torbesh muslims married albanians in Dibra region.
when two ethnic groups with the same religion live next to eachother,its always the bigger one who asimilates the otherone-thats the definition!

Phoenix 03-11-2012 05:13 AM

[QUOTE=Bugi;122590]today you have a bigger albanian-macedonian diaspora than a macedonian diaspora,so...[/QUOTE]

Have you got any official statistics to back up your claim?

[QUOTE=Bugi;122590]If it wasnt for the deportations of albanians from Serboslavian controlled Vardar Banovina,we would have been double the number we are today!![/QUOTE]

We're discussing Macedonia here you disrespectful fuckin' prick, use the name Macedonia or fuck off...

[QUOTE=Bugi;122590]in royal and communist yugoslavia,about 250,000 albanian muslims are sent to Turkey under a series of treaties between the two states...[/QUOTE]

Show me officially where these people were 'albanian' and not Turkish.
It wouldn't be the first time that a shiptar was bullshitting...

[QUOTE=Bugi;122590]Skopje/Shkupi for example,before the serbian occupation in 1912,was a 60% muslim city![/QUOTE]

Once again...show me the official statistics

Bugi 03-11-2012 05:23 AM

[QUOTE=Phoenix;122596]Have you got any official statistics to back up your claim?
[/QUOTE]

1995, there were 40,000 Macedonian citizens in Switzerland. This number has risen further to 61,000 by 2002. This increase does not necessarily reflect immigration, but rather re-registration of formerly Yugoslav citizens as Macedonian nationals. An estimated 50,000 emigrants from Macedonia are ethnic Albanians.

you have about 100,000 more in Germany and a 30,000 more in other countries in Europe!

be sure on that!


[QUOTE=Phoenix;122596]We're discussing Macedonia here you disrespectful fuckin' prick, use the name Macedonia or fuck off...[/QUOTE]

Im talking about the official name of the region under serbian occupation!


[QUOTE=Phoenix;122596]Show me officially where these people were 'albanian' and not Turkish.
It wouldn't be the first time that a shiptar was bullshitting...[/QUOTE]

look at the censuses taken in Macedonia from 1945
you can see a huge decrease of the turkish population in favor of the albanian one,back then the albanians declared to be turks in order to get out of the country which had a high anti-albanian sentiment


[QUOTE]Iseljavanje iz Kraljevine Jugoslavije

Po povratku srpske vojske 1918. godine, nasilno iseljavanje Albanaca, bez prava povratka, nastavilo se sve do Drugog svjetskog rata. U periodu Kraljevine Jugoslavije, "leteći odredi" vojske, policije i četnika mučili su i ubijali albansko stanovništvo.Od 1918. do 1938. vojska je zapalila i uništila 320 albanskih sela. Samo u razdoblju 1918-1921, ubijeno je 12.346 osoba, zatvoreno 22.160, opljačkano 50.515 kuća i spaljeno 6.125 kuća. Prema podacima Istorijskog instituta u Prištini, u periodu 1919.-1940. godine je iseljeno ukupno 255.878 muslimana iz Kraljevine Jugoslavije u Tursku, od čega:
Albanaca: 215.412
Turaka: 27.884
Bošnjaka: 2.582
Pored iseljavanja u Tursku, postojala je i velika emigracija u Albaniju. Prema nekim podacima, samo u 1921. godini iz jugoslavenskih oblasti u Albaniju je iselilo oko 40.000 osoba. Osim Turske i Albanije, Albanci su bježali i u Europu i Sjevernu Ameriku, i na taj način je nastala brojna albanska dijaspora u tim zemljama.
Prvi državni kontakti između Kraljevine SHS i Turske oko iseljenja Albanaca ostvareni su 1926. godine, a 1933. je uspostavljena nova platforma Jugoslovenskog ministarstva agrikulture, čija je misao vodilja bila da ekspatrijacija Albanaca može biti postignuta samo kao dugoročan proces, jer ni Jugoslavija nema dovoljno sredstava niti međunarodne okolnosti dozvoljavaju da to bude izvedeno u kratkom roku. Po zavođenju diktature, Kraljevina Jugoslavija je intenzivirala etničko čišćenje Albanaca, u čemu je vodeću ulogu imao Srpski kulturni klub, podržan od državne administracije.
Jugoslavenske vlasti su 1935. održale sastanak predstavnika pet ministarstava i Generalštaba na kome je sastavljen projekat „o iseljenju neslovenskog elementa iz Južne Srbije“. Među njegovim zaključcima dominira potreba hitnog donošenja bilateralnih konvencija sa Turskom i Albanijom. Dogovorom je predviđeno oslobađanje od svih poreza i vojne obveze za one koji bi se dobrovoljno odrekli jugoslavenskog državljanstva i besplatan prijevoz za one koji bi svoju nepokretnu imovinu ostavili državi. Prijedlozi Generalštaba su prihvaćeni kao mjere za „uspešnije i brže iseljavanje neslovenskog življa“ u Tursku i Albaniju. Mjere su podrazumijevale i suzbijanje propagande protiv iseljavanja koja se vodila iz Tirane, češće pozivanje albanskih regruta iz graničnih područja na vojne vježbe, zabranu primanja u državnu službu „lica koja dolaze u obzir za iseljenje“, premještaj neslavenskih činovnika u druge krajeve zemlje, „nacionalizovanje geografskih objekata i osobnih prezimena“ itd.
Turska je početkom 1936. izrazila spremnost zaključiti s Jugoslavijom formalni sporazum o iseljavanju 200.000 stanovnika "koji su srodni po mentalitetu turskom, te će se u Turskoj lako asimilirati".
Kritizirajući politiku dugotrajnog iseljavanja Albanaca, srpski akademik i političar Vasa Čubrilović predlaže načine za rješavanje "albanskog problema" masovnim etničkim čišćenjem Kosova od Albanaca.Čubrilović je 1937. godine izradio projekat isterivanja Albanaca za Stojadinovićevu vladu, koji su trebale sprovesti državne vlasti.
„Arnaute je nemoguće suzbiti samo postupnom kolonizacijom ... Jedini način i jedino sredstvo to je brutalna sila jedne organizovane državne vlasti, u čemu smo mi uvek bili iznad njih.“
(Vaso Čubrilović)
Beogradska vlast je organizirala paravojne formacije četnika, koje su predvodili Kosta Pećanac, Milić Krstić, Jovan Babunski, Vasilije Trbić i drugi, koji su organizirali kaznene ekspedicije vršeći nasilje, teror i organiziranu pljačku.7. oktobra 1938. Ministarstvo vojske Kraljevine Jugoslavije naređuje da se nastavi akcija iseljavanja Albanaca, a komanda III. armije predlaže mjere kojima treba "smišljeno, sistematski, ali i energično" sprovoditi ovu akciju, dovoditi srpski elemenat i nastojati da se u što skorije vrijeme jake kompaktne mase arnautske razbiju. Armija pritom ukazuje i na značajnu ulogu koju trebaju odigrati Crkva, narodna obrana i privatna inicijativa.
U vrijeme veoma teškog razdoblja za Albance pod srpskom monarhističkom upravom, Komunistička partija Jugoslavije je djelovala na Kosovu i Metohiji, zalažući se za autonomiju i bratsku ravnopravnost naroda , a protiv iseljavanju Albanaca u Tursku, oduzimanju njihove zemlje i teroru prema njima.[/QUOTE]


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