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-   -   Albanianization in Macedonia (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4837)

julie 07-18-2011 02:42 PM

[QUOTE=Droog;105666]So if you were part of a minority in a country and the government passed a law that moved pupils from one school to another with the purpose of not allowing your community's pupils from being taught in their own mother tongue, you wouldn't consider that opressive? Should I remind you that most people who post in this forum complain
about [B]Macedonian minorities that aren't allowed to be taught in their mother tongue? [/B]

That's called hypocrisy and it leads to resentment towards the majority by the minority. For the record it's the opposite of integration: the whole point of integration is the promotion of peaceful co-existence and not the promotion of actions that arouse resentment, because that's what happens when the majority tries to do something like that against the minority.[/QUOTE]
Macedon

THOSE MACEDONIAN MINORITIES ARE ON MACEDONIAN SOIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i HAVE been reading your posts and you are really pissing me off,
HYPOCRACY BEING MURDERED ON YOUR OWN SOIL, give me a break!!!!!!!!!!!!
Come to Australia and make those demands!
Give you guys an inch and you take a mile. Murdering Macedonians in their own country, do that here in AUstralia and see how far you get, its called TERRORISM what the Albanians have been doing on MACEDONIAN SOIL

George S. 07-18-2011 03:51 PM

Droog you are a stupid fool why because you got this simplistic brain.Macedonia doesn't stop you from albanian.Please explain to me how great was your albanian country when it expelled your islamic lot from albania in world war II.How is macedonia stoping you from learning albanian that's bullshit.If it is stoping you have you heard that maybe you are rude & seeking preeminence to macedonian.That's bullshit.You desrve a good hiding that's what you desrve.Macedonia has tolerated you people too much.You want albanian perhaps you may have to pay for it .Why should normal macedonian citizens have to subsidise you for your fucking stupid albanian language.Any way you have tvs & radios use that not when you want your own language.Who cares for your language.
Don't you think the macedonians have had enough of your bullshit.Can i come to albania & start my own university & call it macedonian.Can i have schooling where i want no you cant the country cannot afford the bs you are asking.

George S. 07-18-2011 03:57 PM

Droog It's called starting trouble again.The next time you start a war the us or nato isn't going to prevent us .Youll be fighting normal macedonian citizens.How do you feel at the end of a fucking pitchfork with your guts spilling all over the place we have had a gutfull of your demands.& next time we'll finish you off for good.In macedonia you never had it so good what are you complaining that we should learn your albanian language.Remember the census how you desperately wanted to show turks as albanians & how you s to come & vote.Thats' fucking hypocrisy people like you need to be wiped out.

El Bre 07-18-2011 04:06 PM

[QUOTE=Droog;105666]So if you were part of a minority in a country and the government passed a law that moved pupils from one school to another with the purpose of not allowing your community's pupils from being taught in their own mother tongue, you wouldn't consider that oppressive? Should I remind you that most people who post in this forum complain
about Macedonian minorities that aren't allowed to be taught in their mother tongue?

That's called hypocrisy and it leads to resentment to wards the majority by the minority. For the record it's the opposite of integration: the whole point of integration is the promotion of peaceful co-existence and not the promotion of actions that arouse resentment, because that's what happens when the majority tries to do something like that against the minority.[/QUOTE]

No, I don't consider that to be oppressive, I consider it normal. Students should be educated in the language of the state in which they live, just like in every other country of the world. Now, if you want a small portion of the school day dedicated to instruction in the minority language, I have no qualms about that.

The line of reasonable accommodation has been so blurred in Macedonia, that it will unfortunately be the country's undoing.

The Aegean Macedonians, which you so predictably and clumsily used as a parable, would have wanted to have their very existence recognized before ever dreaming of having the rights enjoyed by Macedonian Albanians.

Droog 07-18-2011 04:38 PM

[QUOTE=George S.;105670][B]Youll be fighting normal macedonian citizens.How do you feel at the end of a fucking pitchfork with your guts spilling all over the place we have had a gutfull of your demands.& next time we'll finish you off for good.[/B][/QUOTE]
I'm not sure what the purpose of that full of internet rage message was, but it's very amusing and it shows a certain mentality.

Droog 07-18-2011 04:54 PM

[QUOTE=julie;105668]Macedon

THOSE MACEDONIAN MINORITIES ARE ON MACEDONIAN SOIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i HAVE been reading your posts and you are really pissing me off,
HYPOCRACY BEING MURDERED ON YOUR OWN SOIL, give me a break!!!!!!!!!!!!
Come to Australia and make those demands!
Give you guys an inch and you take a mile. Murdering Macedonians in their own country, do that here in AUstralia and see how far you get, its called TERRORISM what the Albanians have been doing on MACEDONIAN SOIL[/QUOTE]
Maybe you should learn the laws of Australia and Macedonia. In Macedonia there are 3 minorities with state-funded education rights: Albanians, Serbs, Turks and the state(whose taxpayers these people are) is responsible for education in their mother tongue.

That right of the communities and responsibility of the state exists in almost all European and western countries Julie. It's one of the basic rights of every minority and whenever a government tries to revoke that right of course it causes negative reactions. Countries like Germany that have progressed over the decades now protect the rights of even the rights of very small minorities like the Sorbs, who are less than 100.000, and while in Germany they may not be necessary, such functions are an absolute necessity for multiethnic societies, whose progress relies on the peaceful co-existence of its communities.

Niko777 07-18-2011 05:24 PM

[B]New Law was passed today: Minority flags can be flown in municipalities with a minority population of above 50%. Also the Macedonian flag has to be beside it and has to be 1/3 larger.

Therefore according to this law, Albanian flags should be coming down in a number of municipalities, such as Butel or Jegunovce, for example. But I highly doubt anything will change. Just look at the situation up to now, how many places have we seen without a Macedonian flag? Also, unless there is a large American minority living in Tetovo, Gostivar, Chair, Debar, or Struga, I highly suggest that authorities take the American flags off Macedonian government buildings in those areas. Would America allow Macedonian flags on its own government buildings?[/B]

Vangelovski 07-18-2011 06:50 PM

Droog,

With the Banditer veto under the Framework Agreement, an Albanian's vote is essentially worth more than a Macedonian's vote. Why do you think the Albanians deserve that sort of privelage? Why do you think Albanians are worth more than Macedonians?

Vangelovski 07-18-2011 06:58 PM

[quote=Niko777;105677][B]New Law was passed today: Minority flags can be flown in municipalities with a minority population of above 50%. Also the Macedonian flag has to be beside it and has to be 1/3 larger. [/B]

[B]Therefore according to this law, Albanian flags should be coming down in a number of municipalities, such as Butel or Jegunovce, for example. But I highly doubt anything will change. Just look at the situation up to now, how many places have we seen without a Macedonian flag? Also, unless there is a large American minority living in Tetovo, Gostivar, Chair, Debar, or Struga, I highly suggest that authorities take the American flags off Macedonian government buildings in those areas. Would America allow Macedonian flags on its own government buildings?[/B][/quote]

Niko777, as I posted in the other thread, I'm not sure why the media is selling this as something new. The law already stated that a minority needed to be above 50% in the municipality in order to raise its own flag. The only difference is the size of the flag.

I think this is just Gruevski trying to gain some more "patriotic" credibility by pretending to make it harder for the Albanians to use their flag. But anyone who has read the FA and the previous law on the usage of flags in Macedonia, knows that's not the case. See links below:

Section 7 of the FA
[URL="http://faq.macedonia.org/politics/framework_agreement.pdf"][url]http://faq.macedonia.org/politics/framework_agreement.pdf[/url][/URL]


Закон за употреба на знамињата на заедниците во Република Македонија (2005)
[URL="http://www.pravo.org.mk/documentDetail.php?id=272"][url]http://www.pravo.org.mk/documentDetail.php?id=272[/url][/URL]

George S. 07-18-2011 09:44 PM

Droog your main language should be macedonian.Do you read & write macedonian??
How long have you lived in macedonia.Also do you need an interpreter to speak macedonian
like your fearless leader ahmeti.I'm telling you a hell of number of macedonians are fed up with your demands you allready get language in your mother tounge.This is a pretext to cause trouble.Our politicians with their stupid agreements bend over to accommodate your lot.Is there another ethnic minority that demds like you.You allready get instructions in your mother tounge at school stop lying.I don't beleive a word you are saying.
You think the macedonians are bad then why did the macedonians in 1956 gave your people tv & radio access that is their own tv station ahead of the albanians in albania.They got theirs in 1957?,
So what makes you special in macedonia to want special rights & priveleges ahead of majority of macedonians.It doesn't make sense you are complaining about something you allready have got.You can get mother tounge training virtually anywhere in macedonia.


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