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-   -   Ancient Balkan Languages - Proto Slavic Words (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=703)

Soldier of Macedon 01-18-2009 05:40 AM

Check the below link also, it gives a more detailed version of the text:

[url]http://citanka.cz/tocp1250.en/harant/II-11.html[/url]


What do you think?

Delodephius 01-18-2009 05:52 AM

The word "holemư" appears quite archaic and I only could find it in the dictionary of Old Czech not Modern. It also seems to appear only in Czech apart from the South Slavic languages, but I don't think it appears in Slovene.
It could have been imported by the Glagolitic liturgy from Croatia.

Soldier of Macedon 01-18-2009 05:54 AM

Interesting, thanks Slovak.

Soldier of Macedon 01-22-2009 07:08 AM

There is a Croatian tennis player called Roko [B]KARANUSIC[/B].

It would be interesting to determine the origin of that name.

Soldier of Macedon 01-22-2009 07:24 AM

[url]http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=9867#post9867[/url]

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;9867]The Thracian [B][I]Pulpudeva[/I][/B] produces some interesting information also, 'dava' and 'deva' are common suffixes of Thracian placenames, which are very similar to 'ovo', 'evo', 'ova' and 'eva' in Slavic.

Thacian toponyms found in the Balkans and beyond the Danube:

[B][I]Pulpud[COLOR="Red"]eva[/COLOR], Zisnud[COLOR="red"]eva[/COLOR], Cumud[COLOR="red"]eva[/COLOR], Markod[COLOR="red"]ava[/COLOR], Pelend[COLOR="red"]ova[/COLOR], Girid[COLOR="red"]ava[/COLOR], Sucid[COLOR="red"]ava[/COLOR], Pred[COLOR="red"]ava[/COLOR][/I][/B]

Slavic toponyms, hydronyms, personal names and surnames found in the Balkans and beyond the Danube:

[B][I]Kic[COLOR="red"]evo[/COLOR], Brez[COLOR="red"]ovo[/COLOR], Tet[COLOR="red"]ovo[/COLOR], Trn[COLOR="red"]ava[/COLOR], Bratisl[COLOR="red"]ava[/COLOR], Mor[COLOR="red"]ava[/COLOR], Petr[COLOR="red"]eva[/COLOR], Mil[COLOR="red"]eva[/COLOR], Borisl[COLOR="red"]av[/COLOR], Voisl[COLOR="red"]ava[/COLOR].[/I][/B]


It seems that at some point the 'd' in 'deva' was dropped where now it is present as 'eva' and 'ava', and in other variants such as ovo, ova and evo.

In Slavic, the 'eva' suffix is reserved largely for female surnames, such as Petreva, Mileva, Gorgieva, etc. The 'ev' and 'ov' suffixes are common from Russia to Macedonia, this is a purely Slavic suffix.

There are no other linguistic groups that use such suffixes except the Slavic-speakers, who live exactly where the Thracians of the ancient period had existed. There can be no doubt that the Thracian language is related to the Balto-Slavic linguistic group, our language has ancient roots.[/QUOTE]

This will have more relevance here.

Soldier of Macedon 01-22-2009 07:49 AM

Here is something else that is interesting about Thracian placenames, this time with regard to the suffix 'diza' which has evolved into Slavic 'itsa', again, the 'd' is dropped. In ancient times it seems to be largely present in eastern Thrace, and given its widespread use in varying degrees among the Slavic languages, the particular tribes that employed such names more frequently are likely to have spread from this area originally.

Thracian (Most are likely to have appeared on record in the 'Hellenized' form, ie; 'os' suffix):

[B][I]Tyrod[COLOR="Red"]iza[/COLOR], Kistid[COLOR="red"]iza[/COLOR], Tarpod[COLOR="red"]iza[/COLOR], Beod[COLOR="red"]iza[/COLOR], Ostud[COLOR="red"]iza[/COLOR], Bortud[COLOR="red"]iza[/COLOR][/I][/B]

Slavic:

[B][I]Strum[COLOR="red"]itsa[/COLOR], Bistr[COLOR="red"]itsa[/COLOR], Bel[COLOR="red"]itsa[/COLOR], Banska Stiavn[COLOR="red"]itsa[/COLOR], Koprivn[COLOR="red"]itsa[/COLOR], Virovit[COLOR="red"]itsa[/COLOR][/I][/B]

Soldier of Macedon 01-22-2009 10:33 PM

From the first post on this thread, in relation to the suffix 'diza':

[QUOTE]Diza (Fortified settlement in Thracian)
Dzid (Wall in Macedonian)[/QUOTE]

The probable assumption that 'diza' meant a 'settlement' seems to derive from its use as a suffix in Thracian placenames. It is interesting to see how it still relates to Slavic words in variants.

Of all the ancient languages that were related to Slavic, Thracian has the most to offer in terms of evidence and conclusive links.

Soldier of Macedon 01-23-2009 08:18 AM

The word for 'language' in Greek is [B]Glossa (Γλώσσα)[/B], whereas the word for 'voice' in Macedonian and Slavic in general is [B]Glas (Глас)[/B], while in Russian it is [B]Golos (Голос)[/B].

There must be a relation between these two words as 'language' and 'voice' can both be in reference to speech. Given that all of the Slavic languages employ this word, it cannot be a loan from Greek.

makedonin 01-23-2009 08:42 AM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;9941]The word for 'language' in Greek is [B]Glossa (Γλώσσα)[/B], whereas the word for 'voice' in Macedonian and Slavic in general is [B]Glas (Глас)[/B], while in Russian it is [B]Golos (Голос)[/B].

There must be a relation between these two words as 'language' and 'voice' can both be in reference to speech. Given that all of the Slavic languages employ this word, it cannot be a loan from Greek.[/QUOTE]

Ancient Hellenes used Φονη > Fone for language, while in Modern Greek it means voice.
[QUOTE]
The word [B]φονη [/B]actually meant language, as can be seen in the example in the Drama Agamemnon written by Aeschylus where written:
[B]αγνωτα φονην βαρβαρον -> the unknown barbarian language.[/B]
The same word for language is written by Xenophon in his Kunegetikos 2.3
where he says: [B]φονην Ηελληνα -> the Hellenic language.[/B]

References:

A Greek English lexicon / comp. by Henry George Liddell and Robert Scott. Rev. and augmented throughout by Henry Stuart Jones . - New (9.) ed., reprint, with a supplement . - Oxford : Clarendon Press , 1968 . - Getr. [Bearb.]
[/QUOTE]

Soldier of Macedon 01-23-2009 09:28 AM

So if Glossa means 'language' in modern Greek, what did it mean in ancient Greek?


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