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-   -   Albanianization in Macedonia (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4837)

Pelister 01-03-2011 06:55 PM

A little more contemporary to a century ago, but thought it should go here anyway.

[quote] Unlike the Ottoman Turks, Albanians were known for their assimiliatory propensity. The movement of Albanians into Macedonian Muslim villages saw a gradual Albanianisation occur. The villages of Ostreni, Trnovo, Klene, Leten, Dzheptisa, Brbele, Obuki, Makelari and others were largely Albanianised by the end of the nineteenth century. Where Albanians moved into Christian villages, it was common for Macedonians to leave. In the middle of the nineteenth century the Debar villages of [I]Vichica, Goleica and Pisanki[/I] [B][U]were exclusively Macedonian Christian[/U]; by the end of the century they had [U]become exclusively Albanian[/U].[/B] In [I]Grazhdani[/I] [B]Albanians [U]arrived in the 1850's[/U][/B]. [B][U]By 1900 [/U]there remained only eight Christian homes.[/B] Migrating [B]Albanians overran entire districts in the frontier Debar region[/B] ([I]Grika, Luzunija, Dolno Debar[/I]) with the only remnants of the original Macedonian inhabitants being the obviously typical Macedonian toponyms. p.75-76 [/quote] 'The Contest for Macedonian Identity' by N. Anastasovski

Niko777 01-03-2011 07:12 PM

There is an Albanian-Muslim village just south of Skopje called "Sveta Petka". The Albanian villagers themselves call their village "Sveta Petka". Obviously there are many Albanian villages like these, villages with a pure Macedonian name and an old historic church. The Albanians have no history in Macedonia, they are settlers. Just visit any Albanian village and you will find a new mosque. Go to a Macedonian village and you will find a church centuries old. Go to the Macedonian village and you will find a centuries old cemetery. Go to an Albanian village and you will find their cemeteries are relatively new - hence my point, their ancestors were not from Macedonia.

George S. 01-03-2011 07:13 PM

They just seem to be taking over

Niko777 01-03-2011 07:19 PM

The Albanians themselves know that their ancestors were not from Macedonia, this is why they are attaching themselves to Ottoman monuments - there are no Albanian monuments in Macedonia so the Turkish monuments act like a substitute, as if their ancestors had built them. They are trying to link their foreign culture to the land.

Niko777 01-03-2011 07:23 PM

[QUOTE]Albanians arrived in the 1850's.[/QUOTE]

You don't even have to go this far back to prove that Albanians settled in Macedonia. You can just go back 100 years or 50 years, they were still settling then. You can just look at the Bulgarian statistics from Kanchov of villages in 1905 and compare them with the same villages in the 2002 census.

Risto the Great 01-03-2011 07:30 PM

[QUOTE=Niko777;84962]The Albanians themselves know that their ancestors were not from Macedonia, this is why they are attaching themselves to Ottoman monuments - there are no Albanian monuments in Macedonia so the Turkish monuments act like a substitute, as if their ancestors had built them. They are trying to link their foreign culture to the land.[/QUOTE]
Strong point!

Onur 01-04-2011 06:21 AM

[FONT="Verdana"][QUOTE=Niko777;84506]A few pages back I mentioned that the Islamic Faith Committee (IVZ) of Macedonia has been illegally building a mosque on a site that is home to historic Ottoman ruins (Arasta Dzamija), and owned by the Ministry of Culture. The site is located beside the National Museum of Macedonia in the Cair district of Skopje. The Albanians are defending themselves by claiming this is a "restoration", however it is clear that they are building what ever they want, and it is only for political purposes (they want to highlight the Albanian-Islamic presence in Macedonia, building the mosque beside the museum is clever). But like I mentioned, they have no permit, no documents, and they are building on state owned land. Yet the government is not stopping them.[/QUOTE]

I`ve found some news about this in Turkish media;

[url]http://www.rumelibalkanfederasyonu.org/site/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1115:ueskuepte-5-asrlk-osmanli-camiinin-kalan-parcalar-dozerle-yerlebir-edildi&catid=8:makedonya&Itemid=44[/url]

This is the web site of Balkan immigrants association in Turkey. In the article, it says that Arasta mosque built in 15th century has been destroyed by bulldozers and it was actually unknown who were responsible for this at first then few days laters, Behadzhudin Sehapi, director of the National Conservation Centre of Macedonia said that it was the IVZ who did this by their own will and without any permission. In the article, it also says that just one month b4 this incident occurs, Cair municipality already agreed with the municipality of Bursa in Turkey to finance all the restoration work of Arasta mosque and along with everyone in Turkey, also the governor of Bursa has been shocked about this sad news because it was already decided that all the funds were going to come from them and everything for the restoration work had already been set up.

There are few links to the Macedonian sources about this story;

[url]http://alsat.mk/vesti/zemja/504355.html[/url]

[url]http://www.utrinski.com.mk/default.asp?ItemID=1E7782E8AAA1EF4195A13A7B9EA3BB8F[/url]

[url]http://www.vreme.com.mk/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabindex=0&tabid=1&ArticleID=139189&EditionID=2003[/url]

[url]http://www.kanal5.com.mk/default.aspx?mId=37&eventId=59715&egId=13[/url]


I`ve checked some of them with google translator and this part seems interesting;
[QUOTE]Албанизација на исламот

Верниците муслимани од македонска и од турска националност протестираат поради дискриминаторскиот однос на Исламската верска заедница кон нив затоа што целата церемонија на ставањето камен-темелник на Араста-џамија беше само на албански јазик.
- Според Куранот, исламот мора да се проповеда на јазикот на верниците. Во Македонија перманентно се албанизира исламот. Јас како верник сакам да можам да разберам што се случува, а не само да гледам и да се чудам што се случува. Ние поднесовме барање до ИВЗ и за држење обука во џамиите на македонски јазик, но не добивме одговор. Никој воопшто не не извести ниту, пак, не повика на поставувањето на камен-темелникот на џамијата - вели Исмил Бојда, претставник на Македонците муслимани.
И пратеникот на Демократската партија на Турците, Кенан Хасипи, вели дека не бил поканет на поставувањето на камен-темелникот на Араста-џамија и изразува зачуденост зашто врвот на ИВЗ и се обраќа само на една етничка заедница иако има муслимани од различни етникуми.
[/QUOTE]



One of the most known columnist in the best selling newspaper of Turkey wrote about this and he calls this incident with an headline as "[B]This is Vandalism[/B]"

[url]http://hurarsiv.hurriyet.com.tr/goster/haber.aspx?id=14551980&p=2[/url]






[QUOTE=Niko777;84962]The Albanians themselves know that their ancestors were not from Macedonia, this is why they are attaching themselves to Ottoman monuments - there are no Albanian monuments in Macedonia so the Turkish monuments act like a substitute, as if their ancestors had built them. They are trying to link their foreign culture to the land.[/QUOTE]

100% agree to you and i think Albanians probably works in collaboration with Wahabi Arabians. Wahabis doing exactly the same thing in Kosovo and Bosnia too. This is an article from Turkish website which explains this;

[url]http://balkanpazar.org/mimarlik_turkmimari.asp[/url]

All the middle-east including Jerusalem and Mecca ruled by Turkish empires from 11th century `till WW-1. Seljuks, Mamluks and Ottomans. We did 1000s of monuments in there in that time period and after great powers set up their puppet Wahabi rulers in there, they literally destroyed everything done by Turks in whole middle-east. Currently you cant find even one Turkish monument in Mecca. They did this cuz they cant handle the fact that they have been ruled by Turks for nearly 900 years and they hate from us even with the fact that it was the Turks who saved all of them from being butchered by crusaders. They erased whatever left from Turks in whole middle-east and they are doing same in Balkans now. This is also suitable for Albanian agenda which aims for Albanisation of islam in Balkans.

Then you know, Wahabis gained influence in Balkans after 1990s and this article above shows that Wahabis destroyed several Ottoman era mosques both in Bosnia and Kosovo and they did new Wahabi style pure white painted inartistic mosques at same spots.

Here is an example from the article;

[B]This was one of the 16th century mosque in Sarajevo, Bosnia;[/B]
[IMG]http://balkanpazar.org/BegovaInterior.gif[/IMG]


[B]It has been destroyed by Wahabis and replaced with this work of ugliness;[/B]
[IMG]http://balkanpazar.org/BegovaInteriorStripped.jpg[/IMG]

All the ceramic and mosaic works in the Turkish style mosque has been gone and all the walls are empty with pure white paint suitable to Wahabi Arabian style but it looks like they have preserved the Turkish carpets and few furniture in it and still use those in new Wahabi mosque!!!



They also destroys all the Ottoman era graveyards in Balkans cuz according to Wahabi belief, graveyards are just like pagan idols!!! After Wahabi rule, they even destroyed the graveyard of the wife of prophet Mohammad in Saudi Arabia because they thought that ignorant Arabs may gone there to worship.[/FONT]

Prolet 01-05-2011 09:09 PM

Niko777, I know where Sveta Petka is, its in Opstina Sopishte right behind the Millennium Cross. They didnt have water there they are slowly building new pipes so they can get water across. I know people who have houses there used to bring water in bottles and barrels.

Onur, I was saying the same thing for years, finally people can see whats going on.

Niko777 01-07-2011 10:50 PM

[B][U][COLOR="Red"]ELECTIONS IN MACEDONIA: A Polling Station[/COLOR][/U][/B]

[IMG]http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/21/uneetitled.jpg[/IMG]

fyrOM 01-08-2011 12:19 AM

[QUOTE=Niko777;84958]There is an Albanian-Muslim village just south of Skopje called "Sveta Petka". The Albanian villagers themselves call their village "Sveta Petka". Obviously there are many Albanian villages like these, villages with a pure Macedonian name and an old historic church. The Albanians have no history in Macedonia, they are settlers. Just visit any Albanian village and you will find a new mosque. Go to a Macedonian village and you will find a church centuries old. Go to the Macedonian village and you will find a centuries old cemetery. Go to an Albanian village and you will find their cemeteries are relatively new - hence my point, their ancestors were not from Macedonia.[/QUOTE]

Hi Prolet did you have a nice break I missed you stating the obvious or the useless style.

Niko777 point was the Albanians are settlers and have no real history to he land and as evidence he offered the example of Sveta Petka which obviously can only be a Macedonian name and hence could only have been a Macedonian village but which now is occupied by Albanians hence they could only be settler and recent ones to boot so what relevance if any does your statement that you know where the village is and that they do not have running water have.

To paraphrase the point its like a guy telling he cops you and he witnessed another guy in a white shirt murder the guy in the blue shirt on the footpath and when the cop turns to you for your statement you say the footpaths made of concrete. Do you think the cop would be too far out of line if he wanted to smack you in the mouth.


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