[QUOTE=Niko777;122561][B]Albanians do not make 30% of the population.[/B] Even in Skopje, the Albanian population in 2002 was under 14% that the government had to expand the city's borders into rural territory just so it can increase it to the 20% minimum outlined in the Framework Agreement.

As for Albanians in "pre-recorded history", Albanians were first mentioned in the Middle Ages. In Macedonia, Albanians today occupy territory where they never used to exist. For example they are spreading into Macedonian Christian villages. How do you explain the fact that ALL Albanian villages in Macedonia have pure Macedonian names with no Albanian equivalent or meaning? For example a Muslim-Albanian village near Skopje bears the name "Sveta Petka", which is proof that these people are foreigners, in other words they are not native to the land they occupy, and they must have settled recently in the last century. Further proof is in the statues proposed by the Albanians, or the new proposed street names for Skopje. Albanians are trying to build statues or name streets after people who were not even born in Macedonia. If Albanians have always existed in Macedonia, than who were they? There is not even one historically significant Albanian from Macedonia who was born before 1900. Albanians like to point to Mother Theresa (b. 1910) as proof that Albanians have always existed in Macedonia, yet according to her official biography, her parents were born in neighboring Kosovo and Albania.[/QUOTE]

oh really?
so can you explain to me then how come 33% of the kids in primary schools in Macedonia are on the albanian language program?

PS the number of macedonian kids is even lower,many turks,serbs,vlachs,roma,bosniaks even albanians are learning on the macedonian program.

[IMG]http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg263/scaled.php?server=263&filename=osnovnofillore.png&res=medium[/IMG]


your arguments are funny,giving a village name to prove a point...
names of villages change,a government can change names,but historical legacy remains.

albanians as a name didint exist in ancient times BUT
Pelasgians-Illyrians-Albanians

[QUOTE=Niko777;122564]Buddy, if it wasn't for the Serbs, there would be no Kosovo today! Kosovo came from Serbia. [I]Kosovo[/I] is Serbia.[/QUOTE]

deffending the etnic group that tried to asimilate you and denied/denies your ethnicity,church,language...over the albanians who recognize you in terms of everything just shows the level of antialbanian sentiment in you...

[QUOTE=Niko777;122564]So this is your solution, settling in other people's lands and kicking them out by force?[/QUOTE]

if you only knew the serbian crimes in Kosovo in those 100 years...
there were no serbs in Kosovo,they were brought from Croatia,Bosnia,Montenegro under a process of colonization,same as in the former 'Vardar Banovina'...

[QUOTE=makgerman;122565]Being pushed to the wall! Bugi what world do you live in? The Albanians have been the odd ones for as long as I can remember, as far back as the Yugoslavia years.[LIST][*]Stabbing is common to an Albanian[*]Bullying, threatening, swearing by Albanian is not new[*]Cowardly ganging up on Macedonians like a pack of wolves is an Albanian art[*]Illegal weapons, drug dealing, prostitution profiteering and ruining many Macedonian & Albanian young lives[*]Voting for Alabanian racist former terrorists[*]Being racist and hating anyone that is non-Albanian[/LIST]
I have gone to school with Albanians, have worked with them and have learnt the way they act. Talk to someone who doesn't know you![/QUOTE]

Looks like I have to remind you that all these incidents were started by macedonians...

macedonians-thousands of them were screaming antialbanian chants in Belgrade on the handball tournament.

reaction:albanians burn the macedonian flag

macedonians mock the islamic religion,flag and the muslim woman

reaction:muslims-many of them albanians burn the macedonian flag

macedonian policeman with a criminal background kills 2 albanian youths

reaction:what we have today

criminal act like that are done everywhere by all ethnic groups...
and ofcourse,the albanians that fought for the albanians are racist terrorists,how old is that:yawn:

[QUOTE=Bugi;122566]oh really?
so can you explain to me then how come 33% of the kids in primary schools in Macedonia are on the albanian language program?

PS the number of macedonian kids is even lower,many turks,serbs,vlachs,roma,bosniaks even albanians are learning on the macedonian program.[/QUOTE]

Yes, Albanians are a higher percentage in some of the younger age groups due to higher birthrates in recent years, which is why when you look at the population of people 50+, Macedonians make up 90%. The Albanian language program is controversial because it also includes non-Albanians. Albanians will only achieve a population of 33% if it maintains the same birthrates for the next 20 years and if all other ethnic groups also maintain the same birthrate, AND only if all Albanians stay in Macedonia instead of moving to Switzerland. This is unlikely because as Albanians become more developed and more women are educated/work, Albanians will likely have a lower birthrate like everyone else is the Western developed world.


[QUOTE]your arguments are funny,giving a village name to prove a point... names of villages change,a government can change names,but historical legacy remains.[/QUOTE]

That is my point, in Aegean Macedonia there are 1000 historic Macedonian names for every village because the Greek government changed them. In R. Macedonia, there are no "Albanian names", the Albanian names are the Macedonian names. This means that the Albanians are settlers, they were not originally from Macedonia, the culture of the land is Macedonian, not Albanian because you guys have only been in Macedonia for a short period of time.

[QUOTE=Brian;122562][COLOR="Navy"][COLOR="Red"][B]So turning the whole country into Albanian is the best way to "make them feel Macedonian as their own"???[/B][/COLOR]

[COLOR="SeaGreen"][B]The Albanians (including the politicians) refused to celebrate Macedonia's independence day. If they are also Macedonians then shouldn't they feel happy and celebrate their independence from Yugoslavia or did the ethnic Albanians get their independence on a different day?[/B][/COLOR]

[COLOR="Blue"][B]Ethnic pride is one thing so waving the Albanian flag at weddings, celebrations ect is your choice but insisting it is put on a government building or ANY official capacity is wrong. It might be the flag of the country of your ethnicity but it is NOT the flag of YOUR country as a Macedonian citizen and putting ANY other countries flag on a government building or in any official capacity in ANY country is a sign of occupation and insulting. If YOU want to be "Macedonian as their own" then YOU TOO should feel insulted and take action to defend and celebrate YOUR country's flag.[/B][/COLOR]

I think the above exist because YOUR country, Greater Albania, has not yet got it's independence day to celebrate.

So if you want to be a Macedonian regardless of your ethnicity then be one and behave like you are a Macedonian citizen or stop BSing.[/COLOR][/B][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Red"][B]Bosnia is not fully serbian or croat or bosnian
Macedonia wont be eather fully albanian or macedonian or whatever!
it will belong to all of us![/B][/COLOR]

[COLOR="SeaGreen"][B]celebrate a day full with ethnic macedonian nationalism?
albanians still remember how they were treated by the state in the time of communism and the 90's by the macedonian state,thats why they cant join the party,those wounds are still open...
why dont you ask youreself why albanians celebrate more 4 th of july than Macedonia's indipendence?

maybe because America give them more than the macedonian state?
you need to invest in your population if you want them to respect the state,show them that the state cares![/B][/COLOR]


[COLOR="Blue"][B]The problem is that the official flag of this country is the flag of the ETHNIC macedonians,the flag should be something accepted by bouth groups,dont you agree?
the current flag is considered as a national simbol of ethnic macedonians,so how can albanians go under the flag of another ethnic group and see it as their own?
Im sorry I dont get it...[/B][/COLOR]

[QUOTE]The problem is that the official flag of this country is the flag of the ETHNIC macedonians,the flag should be something accepted by bouth groups,dont you agree?
the current flag is considered as a national simbol of ethnic macedonians,so how can albanians go under the flag of another ethnic group and see it as their own?
Im sorry I dont get it...[/QUOTE]

The ancient symbols of Macedonia for 2500 years is the sun and the lion. This is why they are the symbols of Macedonians, because they are symbols of Macedonia. If Albanians have always lived in Macedonia, then these symbols should be familiar to them.

[QUOTE=Niko777;122569]Yes, Albanians are a higher percentage in some of the younger age groups due to higher birthrates in recent years, which is why when you look at the population of people 50+, Macedonians make up 90%. The Albanian language program is controversial because it also includes non-Albanians. Albanians will only achieve a population of 33% if it maintains the same birthrates for the next 20 years and if all other ethnic groups also maintain the same birthrate, AND only if all Albanians stay in Macedonia instead of moving to Switzerland. This is unlikely because as Albanians become more developed and more women are educated/work, Albanians will likely have a lower birthrate like everyone else is the Western developed world.
[/QUOTE]

The macedonian program is controversial,as I said,even some albanians are on that program,dont want to talk about the other groups-especialy serbs,vlachs and bosniaks!
they are 99,9% on the macedonian program!

I agree that we have a younger population,BUT if we arent 33% now,we will be in about 10 years when the generation replacement period comes!

albanians will have the current birthrate for at least another 5 years!
and they will remain in plus for at least the next 20 years !

while macedonians have a negative natural growth since the early 90's!
and that negative growth is getting bigger year by year,as the macedonian generations of the baby-boom period in the 1950's is dying out.

and yes,the albanians do emigrate more than macedonians,in fact the macedonians emigrate the least than all nations in the balkans.

but albanians invest in their homeland,look at Kicevo for example,50% of the people are macedonians but 80% of the stores,land in and around the city are in albanian hands.
While if a macedonian goes somewhere in Australia lets say,you can put him on the dead person's list,he isn't coming back!

[QUOTE]maybe because America give them more than the macedonian state?
you need to invest in your population if you want them to respect the state,show them that the state cares![/QUOTE]

You are NOT from Macedonia! So do not talk like you know the situation. Here is what the Albanians from Macedonia are saying:

[B][SIZE="4"]"Even if we had more rights than the Macedonians, we dont really care about Macedonia, we are working on the Greater Albania Project". [/SIZE][/B]

Why should we invest even more? For a Greater Albania?

[QUOTE]but albanians invest in their homeland,look at Kicevo for example,50% of the people are macedonians but 80% of the stores,land in and around the city are in albanian hands.
While if a macedonian goes somewhere in Australia lets say,you can put him on the dead person's list,he isn't coming back![/QUOTE]

This is what I have been saying all over this thread since day one. This is a ethno-social problem from the Macedonian side which needs to change.

[QUOTE=Niko777;122571]The ancient symbols of Macedonia for 2500 years is the sun and the lion. This is why they are the symbols of Macedonians, because they are symbols of Macedonia. If Albanians have always lived in Macedonia, then these symbols should be familiar to them.[/QUOTE]

I dont get it
Yes but todays region of the R.of Macedonia doesnt cover up the land of ancient Macedonia...while the regions where albanians live were ancient Illyria and Paeonia!

Skopje/Shkupi was the capital of Dardania...


and those are the simbols of todays ethnic macedonians who tend to be the ancient people of Macedonia!
what connection we have with you as a ethnic group?