[QUOTE=Komita;123532]Yeah it was really worth it, by looking at this topic our independence was the biggest mistake in the last 20 years.[/QUOTE]

In the early 90's i heard a lot of macedonians say they should have stayed with yugoslavia no matter what, as macedonians couldn't survive on their own.

Then in the early 00's i heard a lot of macedonians say that places like Tetovo, gostivar, debar etc should be given to albania, to "cut the cancer" from the country etc

Im guessing you are one of those types of macedonians?

Macedonia should never be part of any federation, kingdom, or any of that crap. We are a people, a nation, and we should remain independent!

[QUOTE=Big Bad Sven;123542]My personal opinion is that the last true patriot in macedonia with a vision was cento, and his generation was the last pure and noble patriotic group of macedonians. And we all know what happened to Cento and people who shared his idea - they had the shit beaten out of them by the Yugoslavs. Strange that today that we have many macedonians who want macedonia to be part of yugoslavia.

[B][COLOR="Navy"]Very true. Not one Macedonian politician has done what was needed since. SDSM are openly traitors while Grujo and Co. try to do it on the sly.[/COLOR][/B]

I think after the 60's and the 'removal" of people like Cento, Tito made macedonians lazy and useless, and dependant on a "provider" or "big brother" type country for support. He also made macedonians think Yugoslavia was more of a priority then macedonia. Yugoslavia also introduced a lot of lazy and corrupt way of doing things to macedonia.

[B][COLOR="Blue"]Yeah well, I'm sure you've heard the saying 'Nisaj vrata, zemaj plata' - a Yugo days' favourite saying.[/COLOR][/B]

Almost 40 years of the yugoslav gravy train of the easy life and being lazy and corrupt resulted in debacle in macedonia's Independence and the country being a joke ever since. The humiliating defeat to the shiptars was the final straw that broke the camels back.[/QUOTE]

Or the back was already jelly.

[QUOTE=Bill77;123506]All these concessions towards Albanians would be argued it is for the sake of keeping peace. Little do they realise its opening up many cans of worms. Once you allow terror to dictate, it sends a clear message of encouragement to these terrorists not only to continue evil, but increase it in order to tighten the noose.[/QUOTE]

Budali se vo RoM Bill77. "He who trades liberty for safety shall have neither".

[QUOTE=Big Bad Sven;123543]In the early 90's i heard a lot of macedonians say they should have stayed with yugoslavia no matter what, as macedonians couldn't survive on their own.

Then in the early 00's i heard a lot of macedonians say that places like Tetovo, gostivar, debar etc should be given to albania, to "cut the cancer" from the country etc

Im guessing you are one of those types of macedonians?[/QUOTE]

I'm one of those macedonians that say if we choose to be independent and build a country that will be the nation state of macedonians,
we wouldn't of been in this situation that we are today.
We have no culture of nation and country building, we have no national idea, we have no determination or will to be masters of our own fate.
We had a country and we weren't ready to sacrifice anything for it in 2001, and this is the result.

[QUOTE=Big Bad Sven;123541]Actually, people like Gligorov, and im guessing a lot of macedonians who were yugozombies or srbomans [B]actually tried their hardest to still be in yugoslavia even though croatia and slovenia left and serbia attacked them.[/B]
Poor old Gligorov tried his heart out to keep macedonia in Yugoslavia, and even tried to keep it as a "loose federation".

But unfortunately for him and other yugo nostalgic old men, slobodan milosivic and his government tried to divide macedonia between serbia and grease, and then also invited bulgaria and albania a piece of the cake as well. We also had many serbian "strong men" talk about the end of macedonia - so poor old Gligorov's dream was shattered.

If macedonians were stupid enough to have stayed with yugoslavia they would just be used as bargaining chips by serbia to keep greece or bulgaria happy, and if macedonia was not "traded away" then i would assume macedonian soldiers would have been used to fight the KLA, and thus being targeted and bombed by NATO.

And in the end, the serbs lost kosovo, i dont see how our big brothers would have helped us[/QUOTE]
sorry I stopped reading.

You should keep reading Komita. There is a huge gap in your understanding of Serbian oppression against Macedonians.

The saddest part of all of this is that real Macedonians over the last 50 years have always been pushed to the side.

We have Macedonian politicians (of Albanian ethnicity) declaring they have nothing to do with Macedonia.

I ask any DPmNE supporter whether they have sought or DEMANDED a response form Gruevski about this public display of treason from amongst their coalition.

I was speaking to a spasticated Macedonian from RoM who said DUI were the "least bad" Albanian party therefore they were good to go into a coalition with. This spasticated Macedonian (and his family) held themselves out to be great and proud Macedonians tied into all the right circles in Bitola.

I'm starting to think the peasants should take over because the "educated" Macedonian people are scaring me with their intellectualism.

[QUOTE=Komita;123558]We have no culture of nation and country building, we have no national idea, we have no determination or will to be masters of our own fate.[/QUOTE]You seem to have a short memory and a lack of knowledge about Macedonia's history it would appear. There used to be a group of people called VMRO, you should read about them one day but don't confuse them with the SerboBulgaroAlbano group of misfits nowadays.


[QUOTE=Komita;123558]We had a country and we weren't ready to sacrifice anything for it in 2001, and this is the result.[/QUOTE]
No, we didn't have a country. What on Tito's planet makes you believe that?

I believe that Macedonians were not willing to sacrifice anything for Macedonia in the last 20 odd years (not just since 2001). Though 2001 was the stake in Macedonia's whimpering heart.

But don't worry .... stupid Macedonians will celebrate the historical map of Macedonia for many years to come whilst they try to ignore the red & black elephant in the room.

Our (Albanian) politicians at work...

[SIZE="5"][COLOR="Red"][B]Кој ги пушти од притвор лидерите на „балистите“?[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]

[IMG]http://www.utrinski.com.mk/WBStorage/Articles/E51123F03934E643BC0A76DADE92B032.jpg[/IMG]

[SIZE="4"][B]Беџети не сака да коментира зошто тетовскиот суд ги пуштил од притвор двајцата насилници од навивачката група[/B][/SIZE]

Article: [url]http://www.utrinski.com.mk/default.asp?ItemID=9CDA96EF46A51F4F96F95889437444EB[/url]


[SIZE="5"][COLOR="Red"][B]ВИЦЕПРЕМИЕРКАТА ВО РАБОТНА ПОСЕТА НА KОСОВО
[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]

[IMG]http://www.dnevnik.com.mk/WBStorage/Articles/BB2FAE95FE19B0489C053EE057EF05D8.jpg[/IMG]

[B][SIZE="4"]Приштина ја смирува Арифи[/SIZE][/B]

Article: [url]http://www.dnevnik.com.mk/default.asp?ItemID=B4E9635318472C4786E7FEB222240485[/url]