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-   -   Macedonian Language - 16th Century (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3066)

Soldier of Macedon 03-23-2010 07:12 PM

Macedonian Language - 16th Century
 
The administration of the Macedonian Truth Organisation is proud to present the following historical source to our readers, a priceless document accompanied with analysis that shows how little the Macedonian langauge and vernacular has changed since the Middle Ages.


[CENTER][U][SIZE="6"][B]Macedonian Lexicon - 16th Century[/B][/SIZE][/U]


[IMG]http://www.macedoniantruth.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Un Lexique Macedonien du XVI siecle-p00.png[/IMG][/CENTER]

[SIZE="2"][B][U]Record of the Macedonian language[/U][/B][/SIZE]

The texts presented for analysis in this article were produced by the [I]Institut Detudes Slave, De L'universite De Paris[/I] in 1958, and are a study based on words and phrases from Macedonia in the 16th century. It is one of the earliest manuscripts written in a purely Macedonian vernacular tongue, and its content was collected from the village of Bogatsko, which is found in the region of Kostur in the south-west of Macedonia. The author remains anonymous and the only likely conclusion that can be drawn is that he may have spoken the Macedonian language natively or acquired it as an additional tongue due to living in close proximity to people who spoke it. The texts were written using the Greek alphabet, which was not uncommon in the Balkans during the Ottoman period, as similar examples with the Albanian and Vlach languages have demonstrated. Furthermore, the 'Bulgarian' label that was at times attached to the Macedonian language is employed in the texts, remnant terminology that had remained in use largely due to Macedonia's former location within the Bulgarian Empire. Despite this, however, there can be no doubt that the dialect (and indeed location) of Bogatsko belongs to Macedonia, and not Bulgaria.

[SIZE="2"][B][U]Macedonia during the Middle Ages[/U][/B][/SIZE]

By the end of the 14th century, Macedonia had already been under Ottoman rule for a few decades, losing its status as a vassal state under the leadership of King Marko in 1395. As the greater region was finally deprived of any sense of liberty after the death of George Kastriot - Skenderbeg in 1444, forms of local state structure in Macedonia ceased to exist. This left the responsibility of retaining the culture, language and identity of the people with the religious institutions that were active in Macedonia at that time. The traditional influence of the Patriarchate at Constantinople that was prevalent during the Roman period had resurfaced again in the Ottoman Empire, as the latter looked to use the former to consolidate a single Roman Millet of Orthodox Christians within their domains. However, institutions such as the Archbishopric of Ohrid and even more significantly the hundreds of churches in Macedonia, played a pivotal role in ensuring the local culture, language and identity of the people would survive throughout the centuries of hardships.

Despite the absence of written works relating to statehood, material of a religious and educational character continued to flourish, and Church Slavonic, an essentially Macedonian tongue that was initially developed for such purposes in the 9th century, remained the literary language of the Macedonian people. However, the vernacular tongue of the Macedonians had co-existed with Church Slavonic and matured over the years, demonstrating a remarkable resilience and stability, which earned its introduction as the language of church services in Macedonia. The Macedonians were faced with foreign interference in both their lands and institutions, but their language had been largely solidified, evidenced by the fact that spoken Macedonian from the 16th century has a far greater affinity to spoken Macedonian dialects of today than it does to Church Slavonic. For well over half of a millenium, the Macedonian language has basically remained the same.

[SIZE="2"][B][U]Vocabulary and Linguistic Characteristics[/U][/B][/SIZE]

The texts reveal distinctive local features that have tenaciously survived the ages, and are still present in a number of today's spoken Macedonian dialects. This fact reveals the remarkable consistency of the Macedonian language despite the lack of state support or schooling until the 20th century. Below is a sample of words from the texts, along with linguistic characteristics peculiar to the language of the Macedonians.

[U]Animal/Food/Anatomy Terms[/U] - Mrave (Ants); Curvec (Worm), Sokol (Falcon), Vrapci (Birds), Golobi (Pigeons), Kokoshki (Chickens), Petel (Rooster), Ofci (Sheep), Kozi (Goats), Jagne (Lamb), Mechika (Bear), Elen (Deer), Lisica (Fox), Kon (Horse), Krusha (Pear), Meso (Meat), Sireni (Cheese), Jajca (Eggs), Vino (Wine), Sol (Salt), Zhito (Grain), Koska (Bone), Gas (Buttocks), Kuro (Penis), Made (Testicles).

[U]Unique and Loan Words[/U] - The word Galuhci (Mice) is used, which can also be said as Gluhci or Glufci, and Macedonians are the only people who use this word. The word Veligden (Easter) is used, pronounced with the 'g' in Macedonian only. Turkish loans are very rare, one example being Jorgano (Blanket).

[U]Dialectal and Jat Features[/U] - The Kostur region contains dialects that have several interesting characteristics, such as the word Ranka (Hand) rather than the more common Macedonian variant of Raka. An interesting trend is found in the use of multiple transitions of the [I]Jat[/I] feature that is present in various Macedonian and Slavonic dialects. For example, the text employs the word Dedo (Grandfather) and not Djado, yet Hljap (Bread) and not Lep or Leb.

[U]Definite Articles[/U] - The typical Macedonian postfixed definite article is exhibited in words such as Krushata (The Pear) and Dushata (The Soul). It is also noted in the word Patot (The Path) for 'the path' , although as the case of Jorgano (The Blanket) demonstrates, the 't' at the end can also be dropped, as in several of today's Macedonian dialects.

[SIZE="2"][B][U]Words and Phrases, Unchanged for Centuries.[/U][/B][/SIZE]

Containing a rich glossary and in excess of 300 words and phrases, the texts demonstrate the strength of the Macedonian language through preservation. Following is a comparison of sentences between the texts and the Macedonian dialect of Bitola as spoken today.

[COLOR="Blue"]16th cent., Kostur dialect[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]21st cent., Bitola dialect[/COLOR]

[I][COLOR="Blue"]Gospodine, brate, da si zdrav, da si prost, ostavi ni da spime, ela da jame, i da pieme, dol (?)da pojdime, da rabotime.[/COLOR][/I]
[I][COLOR="Red"]Gospodine, brate, da si zdrav, da si prost, ostai ne da spiame, ela da jaime, i da piame, dolu (?) da pojdime, da rabotime.[/COLOR][/I]

[I][COLOR="Blue"]Imate hljap-o da kupime, imate vino da kupime, ot koja strana da pojdime vo Bogasko.[/COLOR][/I]
[I][COLOR="Red"]Imate lep da kupime, imate vino da kupime, od koja strana da pojdime vo Bogatsko.[/COLOR][/I]

As can be clearly noticed, most of the vocabulary and grammar is identical.

All of the elements that would later be required to rejuvinate the Macedonian people as they were shaking off centuries of subjugation, were present during this period. The language of the people had solidified, a tradition of heraldry and symbolism had developed which incorporated the emblem of a rapant lion and historical figures from Macedonia's past, and the churches continued preserve the local customs and serve as cultural centres for the population. The significance of all these elements together cannot be overstated, the language of medieval Macedonia is the same as the language of the Macedonians today. Unfortunately, only a small portion of the larger amount of Macedonian literature from the Middle Ages has survived, much of it being looted and destroyed by Greek-speaking officials, clerics and teachers. Nevertheless, Macedonian as a language reached its current form centuries before the creation of the Balkan states in the 19th and 20th centuries.

[SIZE="2"][B][U]Short-dictionary of the Macedonian language, Kostur Dialect, 301 entries.[/U][/B][/SIZE]

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[SIZE="2"][B][U]Further Reading and References[/U][/B][/SIZE]

Un Lexique Macédonien du XVie siècle. Institut d'Études Slaves del'Université de Paris. Giannelli, Ciro and André Vaillant. 1958.
Victor A. Friedman, Vocabulary elements in early Macedonian lexicons.
Richard Frucht, Eastern Europe, Introduction to the people, lands and culture. Page 619.
[url]http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2151&highlight=14th+century[/url]
[url]http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=962&highlight=1500-1800[/url]

Daskalot 03-23-2010 07:16 PM

It is as if our language has not been touched by time, 500 later years and it is still the same.

Golden! :macedonia

Soldier of Macedon 03-23-2010 07:18 PM

Daskale, a special thanks to yourself for bringing this magnificent source to our attention in such detail, Macedonians like you are a source of pride for us all, samo napred brate!

Soldier of Macedon 03-23-2010 07:20 PM

[QUOTE=Daskalot;43857]It is as if our language has not been touched by time, [B]500 later years and it is still the same[/B].[/QUOTE]
Indeed, even the words relating to profanity are the same, lol, :)

Daskalot 03-23-2010 07:20 PM

Thank you SoM for your solid work with the original source, together we can move mountains!

Makedonci, ramo za ramo se borime protiv dushmanite! :macedonia

Risto the Great 03-23-2010 08:24 PM

500 years ago our language was indeed the same.
This cannot be said with equal conviction about any of our neighbours.
And we are treated like second class inhabitants of the Balkan landscape.
Thank you Soldier of Macedon for the interpretation and Daskalot for the source.

I defy any of our neighbours to find their language so untarnished over the same 500 year period. The Greeks deserve a special mention in this instance because we all know grandchildren could not even understand their grandparents as recent as 180 years ago.

Bravo.

Risto the Great 03-23-2010 08:26 PM

And that was post 5000 for me .... I could not be happier to mark the occasion with such a powerful revelation as this.

Struja 03-23-2010 09:17 PM

This is unbelievable. It’s like our language is frozen in a time capsule..

Great find Daskale...

osiris 03-23-2010 09:22 PM

rtg you will be bale to show your buddy from bogatsko and i have already emailed it to my daughter . i kept asking her grandfather when he was alive what vogatsiko meant in greek he didnt know. maybe now his children and grandchildren will know.

Pelister 03-23-2010 09:35 PM

This is really important.

It demonstrates the stability and the continuity of the Macedonian language, despite the geo-political turmoil of the region over a period spanning five hundred years.

It is also a stick in the eye to those post-structural theorists who argue that there is nothing "distinctive" (their terminology would be 'essential') about the Macedonian ethnic group, or its langauge, and that 'Macedonian' is as much a recent construct as anything else.

makedonche 03-23-2010 10:59 PM

Daskalie & SOM
Truly inspirational, thank you both for your outstanding efforts! If I had to buy you both a beer for each piece of interesting and factual information you have posted here I would need to own a brewery!
Shit that's not a bad idea -I'll have to buy one in ROM, remove the Greek owners and invite the MTO for drinks!!!!!!!! lol
:21:

TrueMacedonian 03-23-2010 11:03 PM

Excellent. This is truly a great thing for our people and our history. SoM, Daskale you guys are True:macedonia

Soldier of Macedon 03-23-2010 11:28 PM

Thanks gentleman, this is truly an amazing source that should inspire great pride in our people, just think about it, not too far from the days of Marko Krale and Skenderbeg, the people of Macedonia were speaking the same language as we do today. The Macedonian soliders of these two rulers and their descendants were speaking our language!!

Couple that with literary works from Pribojevic, Orbini, the heraldry and insignia incorporating the lion and Alexander, and one soon realises that our sentiments about ourselves and our history predate those of our neighbours.

We are an old people guys, with a long tradition and history. Long live the Macedonians!

Soldier of Macedon 03-23-2010 11:58 PM

[QUOTE="Risto the Great"]I defy any of our neighbours to find their language so untarnished over the same 500 year period.[/QUOTE]
Greeks, Bulgars, Serbs....here is your chance.

Risto the Great 03-24-2010 03:09 AM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;43993]Greeks, Bulgars, Serbs....here is your chance.[/QUOTE]

Why just the Greeks, Bulgars and Serbs? The French language in the 16th century is described as "Early Modern French". It was not until the 17th century that they fixed their main grammar conventions.

16th century English was the time of William Shakespeare. Doth anyone thinketh something stinketh?

Homer MakeDonski 03-24-2010 03:18 AM

O Lord
Bless your's MTO children
and all their hard work
Amen

julie 03-24-2010 03:20 AM

[B]M[/B]ighty
[B]T[/B]errific
[B]O[/B]rganisation

TRAVOLTA 03-24-2010 03:52 AM

Thank you my friends for this one.

The LION will ROAR 03-24-2010 04:54 AM

Magnificent work guy's.....
This is another FACT/proof we have against our Neighbours...
Do our politicians know all these findings...? Do they see what sort of evidence we are finding everyday..?
I think we should shove this in their face and make them realise that negotiating our name needs to stop immediately...

Risto the Great 03-24-2010 06:48 AM

TLWR, Ivanov was raving about this book over 1 year ago if I remember correctly.

Daskalot 03-24-2010 07:49 AM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;44131]TLWR, Ivanov was raving about this book over 1 year ago if I remember correctly.[/QUOTE]

Correct Risto, if I am not mistaken he only had a xerox copy of it, I have the original in my library. ;) I would like to thank all of you for your kind words, and remember this is only the tip of the iceberg, there is so much more to be found! When we have uncovered all unknown documents we will have rewritten Macedonia's history! Think about that :)

Bratot 03-24-2010 10:07 AM

Two PDF in both Macedonian and original English for easy sharing among interested:

English:
[url]http://www.scribd.com/doc/28858477[/url]

Macedonian:
[url]http://www.scribd.com/doc/28857995[/url]


Spread the word, opismenuvajte narod :)

Daskalot 03-24-2010 10:20 AM

thank you Bratot for the links to the documents!

Bratot 03-24-2010 10:42 AM

Np, just keep it coming :)

Risto the Great 03-24-2010 05:01 PM

Bratot, please attribute the documents to Soldier of Macedon of the Macedonian Truth Organisation. It is certainly available for distribution at all levels, however, it is equally appropriate to attribute it to its author with a suitable web link.

Bratot 03-24-2010 06:26 PM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;44194]Bratot, please attribute the documents to Soldier of Macedon of the Macedonian Truth Organisation. It is certainly available for distribution at all levels, however, it is equally appropriate to attribute it to its author with a suitable web link.[/QUOTE]


It's attributed in the description under, the website is attached also on my profile.

Risto the Great 03-24-2010 06:49 PM

I just saw that Bratot. To be honest, I had to click on the "more details" button before I even got to that.

My only concern is that the document will be downloaded and the links to here will be lost. We have so much more to offer the reader. :)

Po-drum 03-25-2010 05:34 AM

Guys thank you very much. I have been waiting very long time for this.

500 years are good historical distance when we speake about language development or continuity in this case. One another example of how macedonian dialect (ohridski) sounds some 250 years ago is The tetraglosson - part of the book "Teachings for begginers" by the moscopolean priest Daniil. Written in the second half of 18 century it contains full sentences in greek, albanian, walachian and "bulgarian". Determination of the Ohrid dialect like "bulgarian' is understandable because this and the other books containing the Tetraglosson aimed to build up the myth of Greece. We should have on mind that the purpose of this book was to spread Greek among the Balkan peoples. And here is what Daniil the Moscopolean says: “Enjoy yourselves you Bulgarian, Albanian, and Arman youth…/ Wake up from your deep sleep of ignorance/ Learn the Greek language, the mother of wisdom.” The phonetics of the text, as in the above mentioned Kostur dictionary, are complicated by the fact that it uses a Greek alphabet inadequately adapted to the precise representation of Macedonian pronunciation.

You could find it with included english translation in this book [URL="http://books.google.mk/books?id=QtRDAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Researches+in+greece&source=bl&ots=i0fMwtCtxX&sig=NHHwJVskFQDDep5X2R7YbWgKvMw&hl=mk&ei=bDurS7HvMIyssAbDq5GJDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=false"][U]"Researches in Greece"[/U][/URL] by William Martin-Leake, in the part PENTAGLOSS EXERCISES on pages 383-402.

Daskalot 03-25-2010 08:07 AM

"Македонска нација" have noticed our findings but sadly we are not credited for the work.

See here:
[B]Македонски Лексикон од 16 век[/B]
[URL="http://mn.mk/aktuelno/1593-Makedonski-Leksikon-od-16-vek"]http://mn.mk/aktuelno/1593-Makedonski-Leksikon-od-16-vek[/URL]

Pavel 03-25-2010 08:10 AM

top work SoM and Daskalot. :rockon::clap:

зорт 03-25-2010 12:04 PM

воа је голема работа!

Bratot 03-25-2010 12:14 PM

[QUOTE=Daskalot;44392]"Македонска нација" have noticed our findings but sadly we are not credited for the work.

See here:
[B]Македонски Лексикон од 16 век[/B]
[URL="http://mn.mk/aktuelno/1593-Makedonski-Leksikon-od-16-vek"]http://mn.mk/aktuelno/1593-Makedonski-Leksikon-od-16-vek[/URL][/QUOTE]


I have contacted them and I took the freedom to send this text after I translated it in Macedonian to be understanable for more Macedonians, I wrote an email 5 min. ago to the editor to attach our MTO website on every article they get from me.

Risto the Great 03-25-2010 04:51 PM

Thanks Bratot, I was very sure this article would capture a great deal of attention hence my desire to ensure everyone learns more about what the MTO can offer. Translating it into Macedonian was an awesome initiative.

Risto the Great 03-25-2010 04:52 PM

[QUOTE=зорт;44435]воа је голема работа![/QUOTE]

Spolaj Ti Zort i dobrodoijde.
Spread the message!

Pelister 03-25-2010 05:48 PM

I found this. It might be of interest here.

Written by a Greek professor of linguistics in 1966.

Chapter IV: Some conclusions on the relationship of the Skopje dialect with the Serb and Bulgarian languages

[quote] This so called 'Macedonian dialect' is, according to A.Vaillant, a dialect whose genealogy makes it part of the Bulgaro-Macedonian group... p.16[/quote]

[quote] A.Vaillant and H.Lunt in support of the view that this idiom should rather be classed with the Bulgarian language, p.17 [/quote]

[quote] The Slavo-Greek glossary to which reference has been made above is of major interest for the history of this dialect. [B][U]Written by a Greek of Macedonia, in Greek characters, it contained 301 Slav words and phrases that were current in the region of Kastoria.[/U] It was first published from a Vatican Code by C. Giannelli and A. Vaillant under the title 'Un Lexique Macedonien du XVIe Siecle' in the series of the 'Institut d' Etudes Slaves de l'Universite de Paris' (1958).[/B] This glossary has made it possible to estimate the dates of the different grammatical features of the Slavic dialects, on which the so called 'Macedonian language' is based. p.46 [/quote]

Source:
Andriotis, Nicholas, P., The Federative Republic of Skopje and its Language, 2nd Edition (Athens, 1966) NB: Andriotis was professor of linguistics at Solun University at that time.

Bratot 03-25-2010 08:32 PM

Maybe of some interest too

[IMG]http://pic.mk/images/staromaked.png[/IMG]

Translation from Slovakian:

[I]Konstantin before he went to Moravia has translated the Gospel in [B]old-macedonian dialect [/B]and in his mission in the great-moravian land with the help of Metodious also all of the other liturgical texts.[/I]

Soldier of Macedon 03-25-2010 09:27 PM

Excellent work fellas, Bratot, a special thanks to yourself, there was no doubt that this source would attract alot of attention, how could it not, it clearly demonstrates that our language has very old roots and has remained virtually unchanged for centuries on end.

Bratot 03-29-2010 05:12 PM

[QUOTE=Daskalot;44392]"Македонска нација" have noticed our findings but sadly we are not credited for the work.

See here:
[B]Македонски Лексикон од 16 век[/B]
[URL="http://mn.mk/aktuelno/1593-Makedonski-Leksikon-od-16-vek"]http://mn.mk/aktuelno/1593-Makedonski-Leksikon-od-16-vek[/URL][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Bratot;44436]I have contacted them and I took the freedom to send this text after I translated it in Macedonian to be understanable for more Macedonians, I wrote an email 5 min. ago to the editor to attach our MTO website on every article they get from me.[/QUOTE]

They've corrected the source leaving a link to MTO:

[url]http://www.mn.mk/aktuelno/1593-Makedonski-Leksikon-od-16-vek[/url]

Pelister 03-29-2010 07:09 PM

Because the text uses the term 'Bulgarian' our enemies can use it against us. I'm not sure the average Macedonian will understand the subtle differences in the use of this term and the misunderstanding that follows.

This Greek professor used this 16th century text as "evidence" (back in the 1960's) of the Bulgarian language of the "Slavs" of this region.

[url]http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showpost.php?p=44458&postcount=35[/url]

Soldier of Macedon 03-29-2010 07:19 PM

Pelister, I disagree completely. Our enemies can use this against us if our people are not smart enough on how to combat against such a weak argument. Apart from the 'Bulgarian' label for which there are reasons that can be easily explained, there is nothing 'Bulgarian' about the text.

Surely you would know that this implication would have been considered prior to its presentation here, so I am a little puzzled as to why you would even accept that it "can" be used against us. I have no problem in explaining this to anybody, neither should you. In the case that you do, perhaps you should go through some of the other threads we have in relation to the insignificance of the 'Bulgarian' label on such occasions.


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