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-   -   Ancient Balkan Languages - Proto Slavic Words (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=703)

Soldier of Macedon 01-24-2009 10:10 PM

TerraNova, I advise you to stop wasting people's time and answer Makedonin's question. You weren't missed nor will you be if you continue to show how worthless you are.

Soldier of Macedon 01-25-2009 01:20 AM

[QUOTE=makedonin;10088]it is Albanian feature the change of the "L" character to "R" character. It is very frequent one with very low rate.

It is noticed in Macedonian, Bulgar in Serb only as isolated feature.

My guess, either it is a local Macedonian change (bastardation) or it is an Albanian one.[/QUOTE]
Can you give us some examples of which words?

Soldier of Macedon 01-25-2009 01:32 AM

Slovak,

What are your thoughts on the Sarmatae/Sauromatae? Do you agree with the apparent Iranian origin of the people and the actual name itself? Any other suggestions about what the name of the Sauromatae could mean?

Reading an article about them recently I wondered if their name of Sauromatae could be related to Slavic 'Severmatia' (Northern Motherland), probably a long shot, but I would like your opinion on it as I have read that the Sauromatae were considered Slavic by some people, that they shared much with people named Scythians, Thracians and Dacians, and furthermore, they occupied the lands where the East Slavs are found.

Here is some light reference from wikipedia:

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmatians[/url]

Soldier of Macedon 01-25-2009 02:50 AM

Check 'Ziggurat':

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziggurat[/url]

[B][I]A ziggurat (Akkadian ziqqurrat, D-stem of zaqāru "to build on a raised area")................. [/I][/B]


Are there any links with 'Gorod' from the Phrygian and Slavic languages?

Delodephius 01-25-2009 03:55 AM

I think Salvic speakers were definitely a part of the Sarmatian tribes in the western part of the territory. In the northern parts the Baltic and the Uralic people also constituted a significant part. We must not make a mistake to think of the Sarmatians or the Scythians as an ethnic group but more as a mutli-ethnic class society, a faction of sort, where different ethnicities existed side by side both horizontally and vertically.

Soldier of Macedon 01-25-2009 04:18 AM

Slovak, taking into consideration the multi-ethnic character of the Scythians, would you find the following description accurate:

West Scythia: Largely (but not exclusively) Slavic

Central Scythia: Largely (but not exclusively) Iranian

East Scythia: Largely (but not exclusively) Turkic


What do you think?

Delodephius 01-25-2009 07:04 AM

That is pretty much accurate, but I would add Northern Scythia as largely Uralic and Southern Scythia as primarily Iranian and Caucasian. Of course there would be a mixing of all these groups in certain points in place and hierarchy, like for example that there would a Scythian general of Slavic descent with his deputy of Iranian and the army made of Turkic and Uralic warriors going to battle in the Balkans.

The steppe people that came to Europe were not all Tataric as is many time thought by the uneducated. We of course take the highest class into consideration here: the Scythians were Iranian, the Huns were Turkic, the Avars were Caucasian, the Bulgars were Iranian, the Magyars were/are Uralic. And all these ethnic groups were very different in language, culture and religion. And if we look at the lower classes and in time also the higher classes, the ethnic make up of their societies is a bit over-colourful.

Soldier of Macedon 01-25-2009 07:08 AM

That's what some of the archaeological finds seem to indicate, that burials and graves demonstrate a multi-layer of cultural elements.

I am sure you have seen it, some of the Scythian sites found on Russian territory and the items extracted are absolutely stunning and magnificent, surely not from an uncultured people.

Delodephius 01-25-2009 07:43 AM

Scythians were a very advanced civilization. Many of their technological advances primarily in the field of building and architecture were adopted by the Mycenaeans and Hittites. Scythians on the other hand received further knowledge in metallurgy and perfected it.
I suppose you have seen this picture of Scythian soldiers made according to the archaeological knowledge:
[IMG]http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/Theyetiking/Scythians.jpg[/IMG]

Or this one:
[IMG]http://www.spartanwarband.com/albums/modernart/Scythians.sized.jpg[/IMG]

Delodephius 01-25-2009 07:58 AM

The best known supporter of the idea that Scyhians (at least Western Scythians) were a Proto-Slavic people was Boris Rybakov:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Rybakov[/url]
[QUOTE]Rybakov held a chair in Russian history at the Moscow University since 1939, was a deputy dean of the university in 1952-54, and administered the Russian History Institute for 40 years.[/QUOTE]

Soldier of Macedon 01-25-2009 08:04 AM

Slovak, no I had not seen them yet until now, brilliant pictures, thank you :cool:

How did certain cultural elements and knowledge of the Scythians pass on to the Mycaneans and Hittites?

Were there any cultural elements that were used across all of Scythia, in which there could be some sort of defined links?

Was Scythia ever under one ruler from west to east?

How solid is the notion of the Oiorpati being connected to the Krobati/Hrvati? Personally, I do believe it is plausable, as with the Serboi tribe, however, I would like to know what type of Scythians they were prior to their arrival closer to their current homes?

Sorry to hit you with the questions at once, when you get a chance let us know.

Delodephius 01-25-2009 08:09 AM

[QUOTE]How did certain cultural elements and knowledge of the Scythians pass on to the Mycaneans and Hittites?[/QUOTE]
I read this text in Slovenian, I don't have a translation for it, so if you don't understand something ask Zrinski :)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12. Skiti (Scytians)
Podobnosti Mikenske arhitekture in umetnosti s skitskima arhitekturo in umetnostjo.

Skite (Scythians), ali kot so jih klicali Slovani »Čute« in, ki jih lahko najdemo celo v angleško-sanskrtskem slovarju kjer je naslednji vnos: (Saka = Scythians - svetlopolto ljudstvo), omenja tudi grški zgodovinar Herodotus in pravi, »da so se imeli za najmlajše ljudstvo«. To Herodotovo izjavo je potrebno jemati z rezervo, saj so se Grki že v Herodotovem času zelo načrtno trudili dokazovati svojo prvobitnost, kar je skozi tisočletja pustilo, vsaj s stališča zgodovine in, če hočete resnice, zelo negativne sledove. Edino kar je novega v zvezi s tem je, da je ta grški odnos do sveta okoli njih dobil sodobnejše ime, namreč »helenizacija«. Kadar Skite omenjajo sodobni zgodovinarji smo navajeni opisov kot je naslednji:

Veliki nemiri in premiki narodov v 8. in 7. stol. pred n. št. so bili povod in vzrok, da so se iz azijskih globin nenadoma na pragu tedanjih civiliziranih narodov, kot so bili Asirci, Grki in Egipt, pojavila nomadska plemena »Skitov«. Pred tem so živeli vzhodno od reke »Araxus« to je, ali afganistanske reke »Oxus«, ali pa »Volge«. Njihovo prvo naselitev v južni Rusiji datirajo proti koncu 8. stol. to je v času, ko so se blizu jezera »Urmija« jugo zahodno od kaspijskega morja prvič z njimi spopadli tudi Asirci. V naslednjih nekaj desetletjih, so Skiti doživeli silni razcvet in na svojem vrhuncu ogrožali celo Egipt in pripomogli k razsulu Asirskega kraljestva. Končno so jih Perzijci uspeli ukrotil in jih potisniti nazaj v stepe za Kavkaz.

Zgornji opis Skitov je verjetno le delno točen. Predvsem so v zadnjih dveh stoletij odkrili, da je to »nomadsko ljudstvo« bilo zavidljivo visoko razvito. Njihova tehnika izgradnje obokov na identičen način kot so to znali Mikenci in Etruščani, kot tudi njihove zavidljivo visoko razvite metalurške obrti ter zlatarstvo kot tudi lončarstvo in umetnost so vzrok za resne dvome o točnosti zgornjega tisočletja starega grškega klišeja o nomadskih Skitih.

Sicer je pa, ne toliko v kontekstu Venetov ampak, v kontekstu prastarih in veliko preveč ohlapno identificiranih evro-azijskih kultur potrebno gledati na stepe nad Kavkazom in na sibirski prostor dosti bolj pozorno, ker resnično izgleda, da je že v času srednjega neolitika tam cvetela kultura »stalnih naselij«, kar je v nasprotju s popularnim mnenjem in mnenjem velike večine znanstvenikov, da je šlo za nomadsko pastirske skupnosti. V končni fazi bomo najbrž spoznali, da je res šlo za Venete oz. Arijce, ali pa za neko njihovo skupno genetsko in jezikovno deblo, katerega karakteristike so razširjene tako med Indijci na indijskem podkontinentu kot med Slovani po vsej Evropi, o čemer pričajo številne genetske in jezikovne analize evro-azijskega prostora, ob katerih je potrebno omeniti, da raziskovalci razširjajo časovne okvire svojih hipotez vse do pleistocenskih časov tj. obdobja med in neposredno po zadnji ledeni dobi.

Torej, rad bi opozoril na tiste primitivnejše oblike gradnje s pomočjo megalitskih blokov, iz katerih se je polagoma razvil poznani mikenski in etruščanski »zvonasti obok« - ti. »corebelled vault«, ki so ga najprej dopolnili pri gradnji mikenskih in etruščanskih grobnic in so ga nato razvili do absolutne popolnosti Etruščani, ki so svoje znanje predali Rimljanom, kateri pa so končno to metodo gradnje razširili po vsem antičnem svetu z gradnjami akvaduktov, viaduktov in amfiteatrov, ki vsi slonijo na tem principu skitskega »zvonastega oboka«.

Naj povem, da so v na jugu Rusije in Ukrajine, v Ruskih stepah nad Kavkazom ter v okolici kaspijskega morja, odkrili ogromno takih zgradb iz monolitov. Če primerjamo način izgradnje, je jasno vidno, da je skitski način gradnje preprostejši in verjetno prvotni ali izvirni, kar pomeni, da je zelo malo verjetno, da bi se Skiti naučili graditi od Hetitov, Grkov ali pa celo Etruščanov. Torej, če sklepamo po arhitekturi in razvoju metod gradnje so skitska naselja nastala pred hetitskimi in se razume pred grškimi. Toda kako je to mogoče, če so se Skiti pojavili šele v 8. stol. pred n. št., to je okoli 800 ali 900 let po ustanovitvi mikenske kulture. Ali pa pomislimo zakaj je že Herodot širil »helenistično propagando«, da so Skiti najmlajši narod na svetu.

Kaj se je zgodilo v zibelki sodobne civilizacije v času od leta 14 000 do 3500 pred n. št., kjer naj bi se razvili Arijci, Grki, Italci, Kelti in Germani potem pa so okoli leta 900 pred n. št. prevzeli njihovo neolitsko kulturo divjaški Skiti iz Sibirije in se naučili metalurških, zlatarske in lončarskih obrti na nivoju Egipta in najimenitnejših mikenskih in minojskih delavnic. Očitno je nekaj tu narobe! Nekdo je nekoč in nekje začel pisati zgodovino, ki se nikoli ni zgodila.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Delodephius 01-25-2009 08:17 AM

[QUOTE]Was Scythia ever under one ruler from west to east?[/QUOTE]
I don't know. Greeks usually spoke only of western part of Scythia and that was once ruled whole by Ateus who died in battle with Philip II.

[QUOTE]How solid is the notion of the Oiorpati being connected to the Krobati/Hrvati? Personally, I do believe it is plausable, as with the Serboi tribe, however, I would like to know what type of Scythians they were prior to their arrival closer to their current homes?[/QUOTE]
Well, the territory the Oirpati inhabited is pretty much the same place the White Croatians inhabited centuries later, the eastern hills of Carpathia, and after all Carpathia is named after the Croats (Khorvati > Khorvatia).

Soldier of Macedon 01-25-2009 08:40 AM

Ok, ok, now that is interesting. In Porphyrogenitus, both the people of White Croatia and White Serbia (Hrovatoi/Hrobatoi and Servloi/Serbloi) are mentioned as living "[B][I]beyond Turkey and next to Francia[/I][/B]".

In this instance, is it safe to assume that Turkey is the land of Hungarians and Francia is the land of Germans? I know that you have your doubts about Porphyrogenitus, but where do you think the Croats and Serbs were situated according to his description? It seems like the lands populated by Slovaks, Czechs and Poles, what do you think?


As for the connection of the Croat name to the Carpathians, the name itself means 'rock' from Karpa in Slavic, does it not? Is this a possible etymology for the Croatian name? Porphyrogenitus provides the following explanation for the name 'Croats', "[I]in the Slav tongue it means [B]those who occupy much territory[/B][/I]". Not too sure about that one, what's your thoughts?

Delodephius 01-25-2009 09:08 AM

In Slovak we have words "hŕba" which means "pile, mound", and for a place that has many hills we say "hrbaté", also "chrbát" meaing "back" (part of body). It is possible that Croat (Hrvat) is someone connected to the word for a hill or better yet a mountain range which reminds of the human spine on the back, so Hrvat could means something like a highlander.

The name Serb is present at many locations throughout Europe, many of them seem unconnected. Today we have Serbs in Germany (the Sorbs, Wends) and Serbs in the Balkans. But Serbs have been mentioned by some ancient authors all the way near the Aral sea near Kazakhstan (I'll for the exact author). I don't want to speculate here about from where di the ethnonym Serb or Croat came, if they indeed came from somewhere and what do they mean. I'll need to study that a bit more in detail and I don't have time for it at the present.

osiris 01-25-2009 09:24 AM

i remember reading somewhere that serb and croat are related and come from the same root.ie srb hrb.

Soldier of Macedon 01-30-2009 10:47 PM

[QUOTE=osiris;10222]i remember reading somewhere that serb and croat are related and come from the same root.ie srb hrb.[/QUOTE]
I read that a while back too, and about a proposed relation to the Thraco-Illyrian tribe called the Tribal (Hrb, Srb, Trb).

osiris 01-30-2009 11:01 PM

its an interesting question som, in the piece i read they were some type of samartian or persian tribe. do you know why their language is so simmilar.

Soldier of Macedon 01-30-2009 11:35 PM

Osiris, lets look at it from a pragmatic viewpoint. Most of us are of the opinion that the Slavic tribes that invaded the south of the Danube were in some important ways related and kindred to the populations of Macedonia, Illyria and Thrace. East Roman writers tend to sensationalise events as all of the destruction was aimed at the Roman establishment such as towns, cities, forts, etc, that is what they mean by the "whole country" was devastated.

These Slavic tribes had already crossed the Danube before powerful groups from Scythia such as the Serbs, Croats, Avars and Bulgars came to the same area, and there is no reason to assume that the (relevant) Slavic tribes had differed in any significant way prior to crossing the river. Which leads back to pre-existing 'boundaries' if you will, between the Illyria-Thrace divide, which is often grey and overlapping. Hence, some writers speak of the Dardani and Tribali as Illyrians, others as Thracians, just like today you have the Torlak dialect which is claime by all sides.

Generally speaking, this 'boundary' roughly corresponds the Serbo-Croat and Macedono-Bulgar divide where it concerns the sub-groups of South Slavic dialects. Personally, I think the similarities of Serbian and Croatian are due more to the common Illyrian history rather than the closeness shared by the Serb and Croat tribes prior to their arrival in the Balkan area.

osiris 01-31-2009 03:25 AM

what a pity the ancient greeks were not more curious and diligent in recording the cultures they came into contact with, they seem to have been avery egocentric lot.

Spartan 01-31-2009 08:03 AM

Osiris

You are right my friend, the Ancient Greeks were rather egocentric.
However there are some exceptions from what I have read.
For instance, Ancient Greek writings have a plethora of information on the Persians and Phoenicians. This is probably due to being in constant contact with them, Phooenicians for trade, Persians for war.

These are just two examples I know, but its worth mentioning I believe.
They werent always looking in the mirror is my point, lol
Damn Narcicists...

TerraNova 01-31-2009 08:29 AM

[QUOTE=Spartan;10734]Osiris

You are right my friend, the Ancient Greeks were rather egocentric.
However there are some exceptions from what I have read.
For instance, Ancient Greek writings have a plethora of information on the Persians and Phoenicians. This is probably due to being in constant contact with them, Phooenicians for trade, Persians for war.

These are just two examples I know, but its worth mentioning I believe.
They werent always looking in the mirror is my point, lol
Damn Narcicists...[/QUOTE]

Spartan...we shouldn't wait everything from the Greeks.After all almost all we know about other pre-Roman people come from the Greek sources.
Illyrians,Thracians and hundreds of other people didn't leave any literature or written history about themselves.

osiris 02-01-2009 07:49 AM

spartan i am surprised at how sensitive some modern greeks are about the ancients, any criticsm is considered sacreligious, its not a very healthy state of mind, thanks for calling me freind i hope you mean it.

terra you dont get it do you , its true we know a lot about the ancient world from greek writings, but the point is we know so little, and we know it from a greek perspective, hardly an objective view. who is darius terranova and why is he called darius. why are the phoenicians so called when they had their own name. why was there no illyrian or thracian glossary , do you understand what i mean.

the modern european view of ancient greece is through rose coloured glasses and not a true representation of the greek world its a fantasy world. when one looks at the art of greece one is in awe but past that and they are not much better than any one the other ancients from whom they took so much knowledge. terranova get a grip on reality please and stop living that fantasy too.

TerraNova 02-01-2009 07:58 AM

[QUOTE=osiris;10822]spartan i am surprised at how sensitive some modern greeks are about the ancients, any criticsm is considered sacreligious, its not a very healthy state of mind, thanks for calling me freind i hope you mean it.

terra you dont get it do you , its true l we know a lot of the ancinet from greek writings, but the point is we know so little, and we know it form a greek perspective, hardly an objective view. who is darius terranova and why is he called darius. wahy are the phoenicians so called when they had their own name so we can have abetter understanding of them. why was there no illyrian or thracian glossary , do you understand what i mean. the view we have of ancinet greece is through rose coloured glasses and not a true representation of the greek world its a fantasy world.

when one looks at the art of greece one is in awe but past that and they are not much better than any one the other ancients from whom they took so much knowledge. get a grip on reality please and stop living that fantasy too.[/QUOTE]


oK..ok ...the fact remains one.
Ancient Greeks left us a treasure-thousands of works about everything.
Science,mathematics,philosophy,theater,literature,history...

It's very probable they used pre-existing knowledge,but they didn't just imitate or copy.
They adjusted,expanded ,transformed this knowledge and created new.
I believe their major accomplishment was that they escaped the magical-religious way of thinking,and achieved a thinking human-centered and based on logic.
This is the base of western civilization ,and this is the crucial difference from the great Middle Eastern civilizations.

osiris 02-02-2009 12:47 AM

yeah yeah yeah viva hellas, can you name one technological development that is ancinet greek terranova, or is repeating the rose coloured romanticsm of wesern europes view of the greeks enough for you.

alphabet gods technologies all frome others, so for the record whats the unique greek contribution, logic theatre, want to see real contributions to human knowledge look at india and china.

Spartan 02-02-2009 09:54 AM

[QUOTE=osiris;10822]spartan i am surprised at how sensitive some modern greeks are about the ancients, any criticsm is considered sacreligious, its not a very healthy state of mind, thanks for calling me freind i hope you mean it.
[/QUOTE]
It saddens me that you question what I say Osiris
Of course I mean it :)
Spartans never say what they dont mean ;)

osiris 02-02-2009 05:42 PM

sorry spartan i am kind of inecure these day i cut my very short a number one cut aand its rocked my self confidence. lol

Soldier of Macedon 02-06-2009 09:29 PM

The capital city of Bulgaria, Sofia, has only been known by that (Greek) name since the 14th century, previous to that, it had retained an ancient name of local etymology and significance. Originally, it was recorded as [COLOR="Red"][B]Serdica/Serdika[/B][/COLOR] (or Sardica), after the Thracian tribe that inhabited the region who were called Serdi.

In the Middle Ages the name Triaditsa came to be known however this was a translation of the local name for those writing in Greek. The name the city was known as by the Slavic tribes inhabiting it among the local Thracians was [COLOR="red"][B]Sredec/Sredets[/B][/COLOR] (or Sreditsa), which can mean either the 'centre' [B]срeдe[/B] (Srede in Macedonian) or the 'heart' - [B]срцє[/B] (Srtse in Macedonian), [B]срьдьцє[/B] (Sr'd'tse in Old Slavonic).

The actual geographic location of modern Sofia is virtually in the centre of the Balkan region having almost equal distance to the Adriatic and Black Sea on the one hand, and the Dabube and Aegean on the other.
[URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/3617/thebalkansmaptv7.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

The difference between Serdica and Sreditsa are very minimal and indicate a crossing of common dialects between Thracian and the Slavic language from the Danube areas rather than two completely unrelated tongues. In this case, an ancient Thracian placename was preserved in its related Slavic variant for centuries after the disruptions caused by tribes beyond the Danube against East Rome.

Pelister 02-10-2009 10:42 PM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;11305]The capital city of Bulgaria, Sofia, has only been known by that (Greek) name since the 14th century, previous to that, it had retained an ancient name of local etymology and significance. Originally, it was recorded as [COLOR="Red"][B]Serdica/Serdika[/B][/COLOR] (or Sardica), after the Thracian tribe that inhabited the region who were called Serdi.

In the Middle Ages the name Triaditsa came to be known however this was a translation of the local name for those writing in Greek. The name the city was known as by the Slavic tribes inhabiting it among the local Thracians was [COLOR="red"][B]Sredec/Sredets[/B][/COLOR] (or Sreditsa), which can mean either the 'centre' [B]срeдe[/B] (Srede in Macedonian) or the 'heart' - [B]срцє[/B] (Srtse in Macedonian), [B]срьдьцє[/B] (Sr'd'tse in Old Slavonic).

The actual geographic location of modern Sofia is virtually in the centre of the Balkan region having almost equal distance to the Adriatic and Black Sea on the one hand, and the Dabube and Aegean on the other.
[URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/3617/thebalkansmaptv7.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

The difference between Serdica and Sreditsa are very minimal and indicate a crossing of common dialects between Thracian and the Slavic language from the Danube areas rather than two completely unrelated tongues. In this case, an ancient Thracian placename was preserved in its related Slavic variant for centuries after the disruptions caused by tribes beyond the Danube against East Rome.[/QUOTE]

This is fascinating stuff. Good work SoM.

Soldier of Macedon 02-13-2009 10:01 AM

Macedonian Kinship terms, as explained in an MPO article:

[url]http://www.macedonian.org/tribune/article.asp?ID=13[/url]

[QUOTE]Have you ever wondered what the difference between a vuyna and a strina is? Or a cheecho and a tetko? Have you found it difficult to distinguish between a zolva and an etarva? You are not alone! All children and grandchildren of Macedonian immigrants to the New World have been confused about our kinship system, or the way we address our relatives and our in-laws.

It is quite a bit different than the Anglo-American system and in many respects, considerably more precise. There was considerable interest in this topic at the language seminar conducted by Janice Chachoff and myself at the MPO Convention in Indianapolis. Many of the participants, both young and old, asked me to record this portion of the seminar in the pages of the MACEDONIAN TRIBUNE. I am happy to oblige.

Our language is, of course, written in the Cyrillic alphabet, but because so few of the younger generation know it, I am transliterating the terms using a modified English system. Therefore, when you are reading, please remember that: "i" is always pronounced as "ee", as in feet, or keel "a" is used for the Cyrillic letter b. This vowel is similar to the final vowel in sofa or toga. An "e" at the end of a word is always pronounced as the "e" in bet or set. A "u" is always pronounced as the "oo " in cool or pool.

Maika is the word for "mother". When addressing your mother, you would use the forms maiko or mamo. Mashchea or para-maika means stepmother.

Tatko is the word for father. When addressing your father, you could say tatko or tate. Other dialects say tato. Para-tatko means stepfather. Brat is brother. Sestra is sister. Dedo is grandfather. Your greatgrandfather is your dedo star. Baba is grandmother. Your greatgrandmother is your baba stara. Sin is son. Often, the word dete, meaning boy is used instead. Kerka or shcherka is daughter. Often the word chupa, meaning girl is used instead. Both male and female children were often addressed as chedo (or chendo in the Kostur Region). Literally, this means offspring or child.

Vnuk means grandson, and vnuka means granddaughter. These two words also mean nephew and niece. This sometimes causes confusion, as it is one of the few cases where our kinship system is not as accurate as the English one.

Striko or chicho is your father’s brother. In the eastern Lerin Region (Banitsa, Ekshi Su, Zeleniche, the term baiche is used instead.

Strina is your striko’s (father’s brother’s) wife. Vuyko or vuyche is your mother’s brother. His wife is your vuyna. Teta is your father’s sister or your mother’s sister. Her husband is your tetko or tetin.

Brached or bratuched is a male cousin, while bratcheda or bratucheda (brachenda or bratuchenda) in the Kostur dialect) is a female cousin. Snaa is daughter-in-law. When talking to her you use the word nevesto (or in some dialects ne’esto, which also means bride. Zet is your son-in-law. The word also means bridegroom.

If you are a married woman, your mother-in-law is your svekarva and your father-in-law is your svekor. Your husband is referred to as your momche if he is young or your mazh or mazh or mozh, if he is older, depending on the dialect.

Your husband’s brother is your dever. Your dever’s wife is your etarva (yatarva in Buf, Lerinsko and to the north of that village.) In the Kostur Region, you address your brother-in-law’s wife as zonye. Your husband’s sister is your zolva (or zalva in the eastern Lerin Region). In the Kostur Region, you address her as motro. If you are a married man, your wife’s mother is your teshcha and your wife’s father is test. You would address them as baba and dedo, respectively.

Your wife’s brother is your shura, and his wife is your shurna. Your wife’s sister is your sveska, and her husband is your badjanak. The families of your daughterin- law or son-in-law are your svatovi or svatovshchini. The father of the daughter-in-law or son-in-law is your svat, while the mother is your svatya (or svakya or svaikya outside of the Kostur Region). Everyone belonged not only to a family or familya, but also to a clan or soy or rod, a group of families with the same last name, or a number of different last names, but who all had one common ancestor. Your relatives by blood are called rodnini. The godfather and godmother played an important role in the life of each person. They chose your name, they baptized you and marriage could not take place without their active participation. It was they who moved the crowns from the head of the groom to that of the bride and vice-versa during the Orthodox wedding ceremony. Though not a blood relation, they were considered to be relatives of the highest order. In the Kostur Region, the godfather is called the kum, while the godmother is the kuma. In other areas they were called the nunko and the nunka. In the village of Buf, they were called numko and numka.

The terms defined are native to the whole region of southwestern Macedonia. There are minor differences in the various dialects, which I have tried to indicate. I would appreciate hearing from any reader who can indicate any new details from the various dialects. Southwestern Macedonia is very mountainous and these geographical barriers impeded communications between the different areas. This is the reason for the minor differences which developed. Our kinship system has served our people for centuries, but is starting to disappear both in Greek ruled Aegean Macedonia as well as North America and Australia as the second and third generations no longer speak the ancestral language.

It is worth preserving, because it is indispensable for all who are doing family history or genealogy. It is also a unique part of our heritage.[/QUOTE]

Soldier of Macedon 02-13-2009 10:08 AM

Interesting is the word for children or off-spring, it has been suggested that [B]Chedo[/B] is related to the Thracian word [B]Kenthas[/B] which means the same thing. When one considers the dialects of Kostur in Macedonia and the equivalent variant of [B]Chendo[/B], it provides even more resemblance.

This feature is often present in the dialects of Kostur, so instead of Zabi it is Zambi, instead of Bracheda it is Brachenda, etc.

Soldier of Macedon 02-13-2009 10:27 AM

Of all the members of the Slavic linguistic group, the Macedonian language is the only one that has a unique word for a 'mouse'. While in Russian, Bulgarian, Polish, Croatian, etc it is Mish or Mush (or some variant with that root), in the Macedonian language it is [B]Глушец[/B], ([B]Glušec[/B], [B]Glushets[/B]). In Thracian the word is Argilos.


A discussion in relation to the same topic,

[url]http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1033641[/url]

Soldier of Macedon 02-13-2009 08:50 PM

What is the origin of the word 'Kukla' meaning 'Doll'? Most sources on the net seem to indicate Turkish, and apart from Macedonians, Albanians and Greeks using the same word, Google Translate shows the same word in Russian.

Risto the Great 02-14-2009 04:43 PM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;11803]Of all the members of the Slavic linguistic group, the Macedonian language is the only one that has a unique word for a 'mouse'. While in Russian, Bulgarian, Polish, Croatian, etc it is Mish or Mush (or some variant with that root), in the Macedonian language it is [B]Глушец[/B], ([B]Glušec[/B], [B]Glushets[/B]). In Thracian the word is Argilos.


A discussion in relation to the same topic,

[url]http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1033641[/url][/QUOTE]
Make it 2 unique words for "mouse".
20km South of you we say "glufets".

I find it interesting that "f" can replace "sh" or vice versa.

makedonin 02-14-2009 04:56 PM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;11890]Make it 2 unique words for "mouse".
20km South of you we say "glufets".

I find it interesting that "f" can replace "sh" or vice versa.[/QUOTE]


The original word is Glufets. It comes from Gluf, or Gluv, which means to be deaf, even though they can hear.

In German, pigins are called Taube and comes from Taub > deaf.

Why is it so, can't really tell.

Risto the Great 02-14-2009 05:17 PM

[QUOTE=makedonin;11892]In German, pigins are called Taube and comes from Taub > deaf.

Why is it so, can't really tell.[/QUOTE]

Maybe 'cause they don't listen when you tell them to f_ck off! :D

Soldier of Macedon 02-14-2009 07:32 PM

So we have a unique Macedonian word, and there are surely several more, and the best place to find them is when speaking with older Macedonians in the native dialects, as we begin to uncover more we will compile an eventual list.

makedonin 02-15-2009 04:51 AM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;11896]Maybe 'cause they don't listen when you tell them to f_ck off! :D[/QUOTE]

:D similar to the Grks ;)

Soldier of Macedon 02-17-2009 07:06 AM

How about the words [B]KANDISA[/B] and [B]BENDISA[/B], does anybody else here use them, and if so, what do they mean to you?

The word Bendisa is close Bendis, the name of an ancient Thracian goddess of the moon. The ancient Greeks identified her with Artemis.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bendis[/url]

[QUOTE]"Just as in all other respects the [B]Athenians continue to be hospitable to things foreign[/B], so also in their worship of the gods; for they welcomed so many of the foreign rites that they were ridiculed for it by comic writers; and [B]among these were the Thracian and Phrygian rites[/B]." --Strabo Geography (1st Century CE), 10.3.18.[/QUOTE]

Thracians and Phrygians = Macedonians.

makedonin 02-17-2009 07:12 AM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;12003]How about the words [B]KANDISA[/B] and [B]BENDISA[/B], does anybody else here use them, and if so, what do they mean to you?[/QUOTE]

Bendisa > to like somebody, to be attracted to someone.

Kandisa > to prepare one self for work after long thought or avoiding some task for example.


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