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-   -   Ethnic map showing where Albanian was spoken in the Peloponnese, 1890! (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=405)

Daskalot 11-22-2008 04:23 AM

Ethnic map showing where Albanian was spoken in the Peloponnese, 1890!
 
[IMG]http://makedonika.wordpress.com/files/2008/11/pelopones_ethnic.jpg[/IMG]

Source: Ethnographische karte des Peloponnes (ethnographic map of the Peloponnese), by Dr. Alfred Philippson, Petermanns Mitteilungen, 1890.

The Legend translated into English:

PURPLE - Newgreek language.
BLUE - Tzakonian dialect.
RED - Albanian language (current spreading).
RED - Greek and Albanian mixed.
RED - territory of Hellenized Albanians in the last generation.
Underlined in yellow ELIS, MELINCER, Vatika, Giannitsa - Slavic tribes and by Slavs inhabited regions and places from the 9th to the 12th century.
Guvaes: Popular region names, Geronthron: Names of ???,
BLUE ------ Traditional border of the Mani
RED ------ The approximate border of the Albanian territory by the 15th century
I-X Enclaves of the Albanian people

Svoliani 11-23-2008 02:55 AM

The purple by far outnumbers the Red.
Clear to see who was the majority in the pelloponese.

What are Slavic tribes and Slavs and why have you underlined these toponyms in yellow. I dont understand this, why would this make you happy?

Daskalot 11-23-2008 03:38 AM

I have not changed the map, it is like that in its original form
look for tsakonian on wikipedia and you will find the exact same map.

So you are Newgreeks then?

Svoliani 11-23-2008 03:49 AM

[QUOTE=Daskalot;5359]I have not changed the map, it is like that in its original form
look for tsakonian on wikipedia and you will find the exact same map.

So you are Newgreeks then?[/QUOTE]


New Greek language means the Modern Greek language.
Surely you knew this.
What are Slavic Tribes and Slavs???

Daskalot 11-23-2008 04:01 AM

[QUOTE=Svoliani;5362]New Greek language means the Modern Greek language.
Surely you knew this.
What are Slavic Tribes and Slavs???[/QUOTE]

they are the one living in the Morea before your kind....

Carlin 03-04-2016 11:47 PM

RE: "BLUE - Tzakonian dialect."

Documents inédits relatifs à l'histoire de la Grèce au Moyen âge publiés ...
By Konstantinos N. Sathas

[url]https://books.google.ca/books?id=0bUdvmsCP7IC&pg=PR72&dq=tzaconien+albanais&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi6hL-g36jLAhXFnIMKHameCCwQ6AEIOzAC#v=onepage&q=tzaconien%20albanais&f=false[/url]

I'll let the following finding speak for itself.

PREFACE, Page LXXII -

"DANS LA BULLE DE MICHEL GABRIELOPOULOS, PRINCE THESSALIEN (1295), LA GARNISON MILITAIRE EST NOMMEE '[B]TSAKONIKI[/B]'. PAR CE MOT SONT DESIGNEES LES BANDES ALBANAISES, COMME LA BULLE ELLE-MEME PARAIT L'EXPLIQUER."

ENGLISH:
"IN THE CHRYSOBULL OF MICHEL GABRIELOPOULOS, PRINCE OF THESSALY (1295), THE MILITARY GARRISON IS NAMED 'TSAKONIAN'. BY THIS WORD ARE DESIGNATED ALBANIAN BANDS AS THE CHRYSOBULL ITSELF SEEMS TO EXPLAIN."

Amphipolis 03-05-2016 02:44 AM

[QUOTE=Carlin;164283]
ENGLISH:
"IN THE CHRYSOBULL OF MICHEL GABRIELOPOULOS, PRINCE OF THESSALY (1295), THE MILITARY GARRISON IS NAMED 'TSAKONIAN'. BY THIS WORD ARE DESIGNATED ALBANIAN BANDS [B]AS THE CHRYSOBULL ITSELF SEEMS TO EXPLAIN.[/B]"[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure it does explain that. Take a look at these two links (in Greek):

[URL="https://sites.google.com/site/fanarikarditsa/istorike-anadrome"]https://sites.google.com/site/fanarikarditsa/istorike-anadrome[/URL]

[URL="http://arcadia.ceid.upatras.gr/arkadia/culture/tsakonia/tsakonia.htm"]http://arcadia.ceid.upatras.gr/arkadia/culture/tsakonia/tsakonia.htm[/URL]

This is also interesting as it reviews many funny theories that have appeared about the origin of Tsakonians and provides some practical examples comparing Tsakonian dialect and Albanian language.

[URL="http://www.greeks-albanians.com/top-greeks-albanians/gr-m-ga-ogr/411-2015-07-22-15-45-33"]http://www.greeks-albanians.com/top-greeks-albanians/gr-m-ga-ogr/411-2015-07-22-15-45-33[/URL]

Carlin 03-07-2016 08:21 PM

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;164284]I'm not sure it does explain that. Take a look at these two links (in Greek):

[URL="https://sites.google.com/site/fanarikarditsa/istorike-anadrome"]https://sites.google.com/site/fanarikarditsa/istorike-anadrome[/URL]

[URL="http://arcadia.ceid.upatras.gr/arkadia/culture/tsakonia/tsakonia.htm"]http://arcadia.ceid.upatras.gr/arkadia/culture/tsakonia/tsakonia.htm[/URL]

This is also interesting as it reviews many funny theories that have appeared about the origin of Tsakonians and provides some practical examples comparing Tsakonian dialect and Albanian language.

[URL="http://www.greeks-albanians.com/top-greeks-albanians/gr-m-ga-ogr/411-2015-07-22-15-45-33"]http://www.greeks-albanians.com/top-greeks-albanians/gr-m-ga-ogr/411-2015-07-22-15-45-33[/URL][/QUOTE]

Thanks for the links. I took a look, but could you please provide a quick summary?

Anyway, for the source I provided - I am fairly certain that is the accurate translation of the passage provided (you can check yourself if you want to, using google translate). Here are the brief translations of the first couple of paragraphs of that page (LXXII), and additional pages. [As for Tzaconian, there is no doubt it is a form of Greek, however, this does not tell us much about the ethnic origin of the Tzaconians themselves. It is likely they went from a stage of speaking more than one language, to becoming monolinguals at some point.]

As per K. Sathas -

PAGE 'Preface LXXII':

"The Mardaites inhabit Nicopolis (that is, Epirus), the island of Kephalonia, Crete and Tenos. The Tzaconians are also found in Epirus, Thessaly, Crete as well as Peloponnesus. In the chrysobull of M. Gabrielopoulos, the prince of Thessaly (1295 AD), the military garrison is named "tsakoniki". [B]By this word are designated Albanian bands[/B], as the chrysobull itself seems to explain. The Mardaite corps are confined in Asia Minor too; in the same province are also installed corps of Tzaconians.

Chalcocondyle and archbishop Meletius claim that the Tzaconians are from Mount Pindus. At the time of emperor Cantacuzene, this mountain belonged to the Albanians. [B]The Venetian documents mention Albanians in Tzaconia[/B]."

PAGE 'Preface LXXIV' (towards the very end of the page):

"[B]The ancient Tzaconians belong to Albanian sailors [/B]of Kranidi, Hydra, and Petza."

PAGE 'Preface LXVIII':

"The Mardaites inhabited the territory of Monemvasia, or modern Tzaconia.
Like 'Mardaite', the word 'Tzacon' does not mean a people, but a category of soldiers."

As you can see, above is not my opinion. It is simply the writing of K. Sathas, a modern Greek historian.

Carlin 03-24-2016 02:45 PM

Re: [I]Underlined in yellow ELIS, MELINCER, Vatika, Giannitsa, [B][U]Skorta[/U][/B] - Slavic tribes and by Slavs inhabited regions and places from the 9th to the 12th century.[/I]

[B][U]Skorta[/U][/B], [B]bastion of the Slavs[/B] who overran Arcadia in the seventh century.

[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/Carlin177/media/nakra164skortaslavs_zpsshdr5cpm.png.html][IMG]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Carlin177/nakra164skortaslavs_zpsshdr5cpm.png[/IMG][/URL]

Source: George Nakratzas, [I]The Close Racial Kinship Between the Greeks, Bulgarians, and Turks[/I].

Carlin 03-28-2016 10:57 AM

Sathas, page 'Preface LXVIII':

"The Mardaites inhabited the territory of Monemvasia, or modern Tzaconia."

The [I]Mardaites[/I] return to their homeland, which is the territory of Monemvasia (Tzakonia):

[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/Carlin177/media/MardaitesTzakonia_zps9ghyuyku.png.html][IMG]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Carlin177/MardaitesTzakonia_zps9ghyuyku.png[/IMG][/URL]


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