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-   -   Origin of the word Komitadji (Comitadji) (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3040)

TrueMacedonian 03-20-2010 03:47 PM

Origin of the word Komitadji (Comitadji)
 
According to wikipedia (yes I know it's unreliable, hence why I am questioning it) the word Komitadji (Comitadji) [url]http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/comitadji[/url] [b]Etymology[/b]
[i]From various Balkan languages, all from Turkish komitacı,[1], from komita (from French comité (“‘committee’”)) + -cı.[/i] and the source is supposedly Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged. Merriam-Webster. 2002.

But then I run into this from Michael Grant's book [b]Constantine the Great[/b]

[IMG]http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/truemacedonian/Miscellanius%20Mak%20Stuff/constantine_the_great72.jpg[/IMG]

and found another wiki article on the word [i]Comitatenses[/i] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comitatenses[/url]

I think that the etymology of Komitadji should be in dispute.

Soldier of Macedon 03-21-2010 07:26 PM

It would help if there was something more in support of another theory and some citations prior to the 19th century. The only one I can think of is the surname of Samuel's family, although I don't think that has any relation. Or does it?

TrueMacedonian 04-08-2010 10:33 AM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;43319]It would help if there was something more in support of another theory and some citations prior to the 19th century. The only one I can think of is the surname of Samuel's family, although I don't think that has any relation. Or does it?[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=SOLI%20INVICTO%20COMITI[/url]

While previous emperors dedicated the coins to "Soli Invicto," Constantine coins are dedicated to "Soli Invicto Comiti." The word comiti, during imperial ages indicated a minister of the emperor (That's how the feudal title "count" originated). Even the two consuls were called "comites" (check on Du Cange glossarium of mediae et infimae latinitatis). The legend therefore reads: "to the unconquered Sun, minister (of the Lord)." Basically it indicated that Sun was the maximum agency in the sky, as Constantine was on the earth; but both where subordinated to God.



In relation to the word [I]Comiti[/I] I found this in Michael Grant's 'The Climax of Rome' page 171 -

Commudus not only identifies himself with Hercules(the god) but calls him his [B]Comrade[/B] or [B]Companion[/B] (HERCVLI COMITI).

Comiti - Companion or Comrade according to Michael Grant.

The link above with the posted info tells us that the word Comiti meant Count. Indeed the [I]Komitopouloi[/I] (if that's how it's spelled) meant 'sons of the count'.

TrueMacedonian 03-03-2011 11:24 PM

Some more on this topic:

[IMG]http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx190/TM2_album/Macedonians/Byzantine%20Empire%20Maks/Baker.jpg[/IMG]
page 199
[IMG]http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx190/TM2_album/Macedonians/Byzantine%20Empire%20Maks/Baker199.jpg[/IMG]

Notice the word 'Count' (underlined in blue).

Serdarot 03-04-2011 01:53 AM

there is a saying between the older Mariovci, mostly used as irony to the bulgarian lie that "komiti" is a bulgarian word:

"ka bea nashte stari kumiti, Stambol osche be(she) Carigrad"

Also the military formation, the cHETA´s of Kumiti, is indisputable connected with HETA-roi.

Also "na-konte-n" means "nakiten", and is present in many Macedonian dialects.

"Konte" is a word that most of the Macedonians understand very good, also if they don´t speak French.

George S. 03-04-2011 04:20 AM

TM another good find

Soldier of Macedon 03-04-2011 09:50 PM

The concept between [I]comitatus[/I] and [I][B]komiti[/B][/I] may be the same, ie; members of a group, community, committee, etc, however, I am not sure if there is any direct continuity between the term used during the eras of Constantine and Samuel and that used by Macedonian revolutionaries during the 19th and 20th century. The latter does appear to stem from [I]tsentralniot [B]komitet[/B][/I], or Central Committee of IMARO, but at the same time, not all regular members of IMARO were a part of the Central Committee.

Дени 03-04-2011 10:06 PM

The similarities here are due to distant cognates. The Turkish, French and English variants of 'committee' are ultimately from the same Latin root [I]committo[/I]. The Turkish variant being borrowed from French.

This is confirmed by the progression of sound changes between those languages, and lastly from Turkish to Macedonian.

[I]Комит, комита, комитаџија[/I] and [I]комитаџилак[/I] are undoubtedly Turkish for this very reason: the suffixes [I]-cı[/I] and [I]-lık[/I] are assimilated into Macedonian as [I]-Ř[/I], [I]-џија[/I] and [I]-лак[/I].

The word itself was originally used by Turkish sources to refer to the various anti-establishment committees and only later came to be used exclusively for Macedonian guerrillas (following the French usage of [I]comitadjis[/I]).

Soldier of Macedon 03-04-2011 10:09 PM

What examples are there of Turkish sources using such a word prior to the Macedonian revolutionaries, and how long prior?
[QUOTE="Deni"]Комит, комита, комитаџија and комитаџилак are undoubtedly Turkish for this very reason: the suffixes -cı and -lık are assimilated into Macedonian as -Ř, -џија and -лак.[/QUOTE]
In Macedonian one doesn't need to use the Turkish suffixes, the sing. [I]komita[/I] and plur. [I]komiti[/I] are common enough.

Дени 03-04-2011 11:47 PM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;91678]What examples are there of Turkish sources using such a word prior to the Macedonian revolutionaries, and how long prior?[/QUOTE]

The Committee of Union and Progress is one.

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;91678]In Macedonian one doesn't need to use the Turkish suffixes, the sing. [I]komita[/I] and plur. [I]komiti[/I] are common enough.[/QUOTE]

Yes, there is a lot of variation: we have [I]комитаџилак[/I] and [I]комитство[/I] (deprecated), for example. There doesn't seem to be a convincing argument for a non-Turkish derivation (at least not as the transmitter language).


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