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-   -   Albanianization in Macedonia (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4837)

George S. 07-16-2011 06:44 PM

Gruevski is playing with fire giving macedonian soveregnity like it was a lolie.That means macedonian rights to their country are negated.

Niko777 07-17-2011 12:55 AM

Vangelovski, you probably know more about the Ohrid FA then anyone else here, could you please explain to us how the new changes in the law concerning languages and flags differ from what is in the FA? For example, there are media reports now about minority languages becoming official in municipalities where a minority makes up 20% of the population (I thought that was already the law). Also there are reports about new flag law, that a minority can display their flag only in areas where they are 50%+ (Was it 20% up to now?). -Thanks

Soldier of Macedon 07-17-2011 02:36 AM

[QUOTE=Niko777;105485]Also there are reports about new flag law, that a minority can display their flag only in areas where they are 50%+ (Was it 20% up to now?). -Thanks[/QUOTE]
So long as it is smaller in size, apparently. I think the guys in the below picture got the ratio wrong:

[IMG]http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/44335903.jpg[/IMG]


Anybody would think that this is in Albania.

Vangelovski 07-17-2011 04:54 AM

[quote=Niko777;105485]Vangelovski, you probably know more about the Ohrid FA then anyone else here, could you please explain to us how the new changes in the law concerning languages and flags differ from what is in the FA? For example, there are media reports now about minority languages becoming official in municipalities where a minority makes up 20% of the population (I thought that was already the law). Also there are reports about new flag law, that a minority can display their flag only in areas where they are 50%+ (Was it 20% up to now?). -Thanks[/quote]Hi Niko777,

What the media is reported was already implemented years ago. I'm not sure why they are reporting these existing laws "new" changes - maybe someone finally read the FA and woke up to what we have been talking about for 10 years now and thinks its all new because he read it for the first time :)

In 2007, the constitutional court made an order to rescind some of the clauses in the flag usage law, though it was contradictory and basically incoherent (and incomplete). Besides that, their decision was contrary to the FA, so I'm not sure what the legal standing of it actually is...and from what I can gather, noone else is either.

George S. 07-17-2011 05:45 AM

does anyone know how the current census went as the albanians were desperately trying to wrought it to show there are more albanians .even saying turks were albanians.It would be interesting. to know the real breakdown.Why do we panderoing to them they are a minority.These people are not welcomed in their own country as they were thrown out after the 2ndworld war by the communists.So these albanians have a short/long term look to divide up macedonia for themselves.They don't respect us or support us in any way look at the sweetheart deals done that undermines our sovereignity to exist as citizens in our own country.Can this sort of thing happen in the west yes it can if the idiotic politicians let them do it.Macedonia is destined probably half of it to secede to the albanians & don't they know it.:45:

Droog 07-17-2011 06:08 AM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;105489]So long as it is smaller in size, apparently. I think the guys in the below picture got the ratio wrong:
[/QUOTE]

I think that you mean Rufi Osmani now a parliamentary leader.

Soldier of Macedon 07-17-2011 08:33 AM

Not sure what you're on about. But is this the parliamentary leader you're referring to:

[url]http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=105514#post105514[/url]
[QUOTE]On May 27 (1997), an estimated 20,000 ethnic Albanians, led by Osmani, held a large rally in central Gostivar, where they rehoisted the Albanian and Turkish flags and chanted nationalistic slogans..........[/QUOTE]
So much for the sovereignty of Macedonia. Do you think that ethnic Albanians were justified in raising arms against the Macedonian state? Do you agree with what they did? Elaborate if you wish, but give us a simple 'yes' or 'no' to begin with. I am tired of people like yourself dancing around this question each time it is asked.

By the way, I am STILL waiting for you to corroborate that garbage about Temelko and other Macedonian leaders in Albania declaring by 4 different ethnicities. I would advise you to produce the goods soon, or acknowledge that you lied. Don't think you will be allowed to leave that topic without conclusion, I expect to see an answer.

Droog 07-17-2011 01:38 PM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;105504]Not sure what you're on about. But is this the parliamentary leader you're referring to:

[url]http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=105514#post105514[/url]

So much for the sovereignty of Macedonia. Do you think that ethnic Albanians were justified in raising arms against the Macedonian state? Do you agree with what they did? Elaborate if you wish, but give us a simple 'yes' or 'no' to begin with. I am tired of people like yourself dancing around this question each time it is asked.

By the way, I am STILL waiting for you to corroborate that garbage about Temelko and other Macedonian leaders in Albania declaring by 4 different ethnicities. I would advise you to produce the goods soon, or acknowledge that you lied. Don't think you will be allowed to leave that topic without conclusion, I expect to see an answer.[/QUOTE]
Well, the recent local elections clearly prove what I told you about the identity of the people in Liqenas. The Greek party managed to elect one municipal counsellor in Liqenas so that speaks volumes and proves what I told you about the identity of the people in that area.

I'm not going to answer with a yes or no to your simplistic and moralistic question. Nobody has any "right" to do anything and no action is justified. If you have the resources and the will to do something, then you just do it. Get over your notion that there's anything at all that's "justified" or "not justified".

The Albanians in Macedonian considered themselves opressed, they acted and there were certain results stemming from their actions. That's it. There's nothing right or wrong about that. Victimization is getting old (even for the Balkans).

Soldier of Macedon 07-17-2011 10:13 PM

[QUOTE="Droog"]I'm not going to answer with a yes or no to your simplistic and moralistic question. Nobody has any "right" to do anything and no action is justified. If you have the resources and the will to do something, then you just do it. Get over your notion that there's anything at all that's "justified" or "not justified".[/QUOTE]
What sort of garbage ambiguity was that? Indeed, the victimisation is getting really old and boring, especially when the so-called 'victims' can't even justify their actions. Let me put it to you in another way - [B]do you agree with what the NLA did in terms of raising arms against the state?[/B] It's a simple question, answer it.
[QUOTE]The Albanians in Macedonian considered themselves opressed...........[/QUOTE]
How were they oppressed?

Droog - this will be the final time I will ask you to corroborate your allegation regarding Macedonian leaders like Temelko declaring 4 different ethnicities. I would advise you to follow up conclusively and not bother coming back here until you do.

Pelister 07-18-2011 01:06 AM

One simple way of stopping the Albanianisation of these regions is to build up Macedonian centres.

One way to nullify the effects of the Framework Agreement, is to turn [I]thinly[/I] populated areas (dominated by Albanians), into populated areas (dominated by Macedonians). Not hard to do and not as expensive as one might think.

The village of Radusha, was a key strategic village that the Albanians were not able to take. This village is isolated, but it is full of very patriotic Macedonians. It is situated near the border. It has about 210 houses, all inhabited by Macedonians. Why doesn't the Macedonian government build it up. If it added about 750 new homes (at a cost of about 75 million Euro), the small village would become a large Macedonian Christian village. The two nearest villages, Dvorce has about 110 homes, and Orashje, about 250 homes. Dolno Orashje, has about 70 homes. If a patriot added another 750 homes to (Dvorce), and another 750 to Orashje, this key area would be dominated entirely by a Macedonian Christian demographic. There are a number of historic Macedonian churches in this region also, Sveti Elena and Sveti Constantine, that would benefit from the build up of the Macedonian population.


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