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-   -   Albanianization in Macedonia (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4837)

Soldier of Macedon 09-20-2011 08:14 PM

[QUOTE="Helvetia"]I think our country will be a lot better if we could get them to be proud Macedonians and turn our country into more like Switzerland where everyone are proud Swiss even though they speak four different languages in that country.[/QUOTE]
I don't want Macedonia to become a Switzerland where the Macedonian language is no longer prevalent and needs to share its official status with other languages. Macedonia should be the nation-state of the Macedonian people and home to all of its citizens including minorities. Turning Macedonia into a Switzerland only encourages and empowers volatile extremists to demand for more, there is nothing stopping Turks, Vlachs, etc from being proud Macedonian citizens, why should we cater to the demands of extremists of a particular minority group?

Helvetia 09-20-2011 08:49 PM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;109736]I don't want Macedonia to become a Switzerland where the Macedonian language is no longer prevalent and needs to share its official status with other languages. Macedonia should be the nation-state of the Macedonian people and home to all of its citizens including minorities. Turning Macedonia into a Switzerland only encourages and empowers volatile extremists to demand for more, there is nothing stopping Turks, Vlachs, etc from being proud Macedonian citizens, why should we cater to the demands of extremists of a particular minority group?[/QUOTE]

Well, I don't necessarily think we should be a carbon copy of Switzerland. It's not possible anyhow since they've had centuries to develop their multilingual nation-state whereas we've had only 20 years so far. Nationalism in the Balkans is getting real old and tired. Wars are being fought all the time because someone think the borders should be drawn a certain way. All this is being done when your children are starving and your government can't afford basic social care. It's stupid. We need to end all wars, we should become a model country in the Balkans by declaring our absolute neutrality and opt out from joining the NATO. To develop our country economically and learn how to be independent like Switzerland, we should bring in Swiss economic advisors who can guide us in making Macedonia a jewel of the Balkans.

Zarni 09-21-2011 04:09 AM

[QUOTE]I'm not saying it will happen overnight but it WILL happen no matter what Albanians might do. As the economic situation in Macedonia gets better, more and more of them will feel comforable to call themselves Macedonian. Poor economy is the only reason why extreme nationalism in the Balkans is still alive.[/QUOTE]

Apologies friend my comments was intended towards our little Albanian friend

Onur 09-21-2011 05:15 AM

You cant be like Switzerland anyway, none of countries in the world can be like them. Switzerland is the banking center of the capitalist world where all the countries in the world has gold and money deposits in it. Switzerland is also the center of world`s most richest money barons like Rotschilds, Rockefellers, Bilderbergs where they have their own bases in alpine mountains.

Thats why Switzerland continues to be united even with 4-5 different languages and ethnic groups. If someday the money barons withdraws their money from there and if Switzerland loses that "bank of world" status, you can be sure that Switzerland breaks up in less than a year. Belgium is the proof for that. Belgium is similar with Switzerland and it`s founded to be the political center of the Europe. EU has major problems for few years and look at the situation in Belgium. They don't have a government for about 2 years and they are on the verge of breaking up.


So, there is only one tested and approved salvation and it`s the nation states with economical cooperation between them. Not federalist dreams (e.g. yugoslavia), not globalists, not liberal freaks

Soldier of Macedon 09-21-2011 05:18 AM

[QUOTE=Helvetia;109738]Well, I don't necessarily think we should be a carbon copy of Switzerland. It's not possible anyhow since they've had centuries to develop their multilingual nation-state whereas we've had only 20 years so far. Nationalism in the Balkans is getting real old and tired. Wars are being fought all the time because someone think the borders should be drawn a certain way. All this is being done when your children are starving and your government can't afford basic social care. It's stupid. We need to end all wars, we should become a model country in the Balkans by declaring our absolute neutrality and opt out from joining the NATO. To develop our country economically and learn how to be independent like Switzerland, we should bring in Swiss economic advisors who can guide us in making Macedonia a jewel of the Balkans.[/QUOTE]
Do you find it acceptable that Albanians speak a foreign non-Macedonian tongue in the Macedonian parliament?

Helvetia 09-21-2011 05:57 AM

[QUOTE=Onur;109836]You cant be like Switzerland anyway, none of countries in the world can be like them. Switzerland is the banking center of the capitalist world where all the countries in the world has gold and money deposits in it. Switzerland is also the center of world`s most richest money barons like Rotschilds, Rockefellers, Bilderbergs where they have their own bases in alpine mountains.

Thats why Switzerland continues to be united even with 4-5 different languages and ethnic groups. If someday the money barons withdraws their money from there and if Switzerland loses that "bank of world" status, you can be sure that Switzerland breaks up in less than a year. Belgium is the proof for that. Belgium is similar with Switzerland and it`s founded to be the political center of the Europe. EU has major problems for few years and look at the situation in Belgium. They don't have a government for about 2 years and they are on the verge of breaking up.


So, there is only one tested and approved salvation and it`s the nation states with economical cooperation between them. Not federalist dreams (e.g. yugoslavia), not globalists, not liberal freaks[/QUOTE]

I disagree. While it's true that Switzerland is a safe haven for many bankers, there is still a Swiss identity that all peoples of different languages identify with. I can understand your dislike towards Yugoslavia, after all, it was the last bulwark against Ottoman expansionism into the Balkans.

Helvetia 09-21-2011 05:59 AM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;109837]Do you find it acceptable that Albanians speak a foreign non-Macedonian tongue in the Macedonian parliament?[/QUOTE]

No, Macedonian should be the only language allowed to address the parliament. It's certainly a disgrace that other languages like Albanian is being allowed to be used in the parliament. We might as well make Turkish an official language...

Onur 09-21-2011 07:22 AM

[QUOTE=Helvetia;109840]I disagree. While it's true that Switzerland is a safe haven for many bankers, there is still a Swiss identity that all peoples of different languages identify with.

I can understand your dislike towards Yugoslavia, after all, it was the last bulwark against Ottoman expansionism into the Balkans.[/QUOTE]

The so-called swiss identity is as plastic as so-called belgian identity. Like i said, their financial/economical privileged status is the only thing that binds them and keeps them together. There is no such a thing as swiss language and swiss ethnicity. There are German and French languages in there, thus German and French people, just like in Belgium.


I have no positive nor negative attitude towards the idea of yugoslavia. Also, Yugoslavia created by the great powers against Italian expansionism, not against Ottoman empire. Ottoman empire was already over at that time. It served it`s purpose against Italy, Germans and Hungarians, then it became history after Italian, German, Hungarian question has been resolved.

Also, your analogy between Serbia and Macedonia fails. There is absolutely no relation between you and i don't think NATO ever becomes hostile Macedonia. NATO bombed Serbia because they were refusing to accept dissolution of yugoslavia. They had no legitimacy to do that because yugoslavia was created by great powers in the first place. They also committed heinous crimes like the massacre of Hungarians in Banat region and then same acts against Bosnians. But Macedonia did none of those. You were just another victim of them, thats all.

Serbians never deserved to rule from northern adriatic sea to Skopje. So, they got what they really deserved now. Their former status was just a temporary phase and it`s ended.

Helvetia 09-21-2011 08:22 AM

[QUOTE=Onur;109847]The so-called swiss identity is as plastic as so-called belgian identity. Like i said, their financial/economical privileged status is the only thing that binds them and keeps them together. There is no such a thing as swiss language and swiss ethnicity. There are German and French languages in there, thus German and French people, just like in Belgium.


I have no positive nor negative attitude towards the idea of yugoslavia. Also, Yugoslavia created by the great powers against Italian expansionism, not against Ottoman empire. Ottoman empire was already over at that time. It served it`s purpose against Italy, Germans and Hungarians, then it became history after Italian, German, Hungarian question has been resolved.

Also, your analogy between Serbia and Macedonia fails. There is absolutely no relation between you and i don't think NATO ever becomes hostile Macedonia. NATO bombed Serbia because they were refusing to accept dissolution of yugoslavia. They had no legitimacy to do that because yugoslavia was created by great powers in the first place. They also committed heinous crimes like the massacre of Hungarians in Banat region and then same acts against Bosnians. But Macedonia did none of those. You were just another victim of them, thats all.

Serbians never deserved to rule from northern adriatic sea to Skopje. So, they got what they really deserved now. Their former status was just a temporary phase and it`s ended.[/QUOTE]

No, that's ridiculous. The Swiss were bound together long before they became rich. They loved the idea of democracy, and didn't felt so different to other peoples nearby so they came together and formed a confederation. Your argument that because Switzerland is multilingual, it must mean they are multiethnic. That's where you're wrong. All Swiss people identify with the Swiss identity regardless of the language they speak.

Belgium has always been an artificial creation. It wasn't based on the fact the people wanted to live in one country together but it was created as buffer state between France and Germany. The Switzerland case is a very different one. The peoples there came together and formed a country, it wasn't forced down on them.

Again, you're wrong about Yugoslavia. South Slavs wanted Yugoslavia, not just the great powers. While the creation was approved by the great powers, yes but the Yugoslavia idea was invented by South Slavs and desired by many at the time. Why I despair at the dissolution of Yugoslavia is not because I fear Germany or Austria who are obviously non-threats today but because I worry about rising Turkey. We don't need a non-European country interfering in our affairs nor do we need your country to be an economic force taking over our assets with your money. Yugoslavia was the only tool that could've helped us develop and block Turkey from coming back to Europe but sadly, that didn't happen.

julie 09-21-2011 08:38 AM

Helvetia, you have the swiss flag draped over Macedonia, I dont like your avatar or your analogies comparing Macedonia to Switzerland. There is no comparison

From what I saw in Macedonia, Turkey has invested in business for Macedonians to work , where unemployment and low living standards is an issue, a guaranteed decent wage and investing in their future income pension stream and healthcare. They are not interfering in Macedonia like the West and Greece are, in fact, they are incredibly supportive of Macedonia.
Your south slav Tito love killed beautiful Chento. Yugoslavia was an oppressive regime to Macedonians, and am beginning to really wonder, you love the Albanians and want a multi-lingual Macedonia, don't want to have peaceful demonstration to declare IA null and void, and are a yugo lover. I look upon you the same way I look upon grkomani PREDAVNIK
I was wondering about your agenda here and its coming through
I don't fear the Turks at all, had a very enjoyable week there, and when told them was Macedonian, would bend over backwards to help, discounted our hotel, and were very kind to us.
I fear grkomani, srbomani, predavnitsi and your posts here have proven which side of the fence you are sitting on, here to have a bit of a spy?


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