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Daskalot 09-09-2008 09:12 AM

Risto Stefov - Articles, Translations & Collaborations
 
Hans Lothar Schteppan winner of “K. P. Misirkov” for his life’s work

By Goran Momirovski
Translated and edited by Risto Stefov
[email]rstefov@hotmail.com[/email]
September 5th, 2008

[url]http://a1.com.mk/vesti/default.aspx?VestID=97241[/url]

The former German Ambassador to Macedonia Hans Lothar Schteppan at an interview for A1 says that Macedonia does not need to yield in the dispute with Greece and that it is a victim of the European conspiracies from the start of the 20th century.

Q. Your Excellency, for your investigative book “Macedonian Knot” this year you received the prestigious award “Krste Petkov Misirkov” from the “Ramkovski” Foundation. How much does this and other previous awards mean to you for all your effort that you have invested in the last fifteen years to investigate Macedonia’s past?

A. I have become a spiritual warrior of Macedonia. The “Kisela Voda” community granted me a plaque for high achievement. Last year MANU awarded me with the “Blazhe Koneski” award and now the “Krste Misirkov” award. All these are a great honour for me and understandably I am pleased.
There is an additional element to the “Misirkov” award. I believe it is a good gesture when a country nurtures noble-minded original thinking by creating a foundation such as the “Ramkovski” Foundation to award the deeds of those who work to satisfy the interests of their aims.

Q. Arguments which you exposed in your book “Macedonian Knot” had helped many people in Macedonia to better understand the history of their country.

A. I am convinced that all historians will agree that if you want to understand today’s political situation, you have to get into history. As I have discovered, history for example proves that Greece never possessed Macedonian territories before 1912-13. Not in ancient times, not in Roman times, not in Slav times, not even in Ottoman times. Only after breaking International law in 1912-13 during the Balkan Wars, together with Bulgaria, Serbia and Montenegro it occupied and annexed Macedonia, Thrace and Epirus. On that basis Greece stole Macedonian territories, because this was done against international law.
This historic connection is completely independent of Macedonia’s right to self-determination. All people in the world have the right to self-determination. Macedonia too has that right and should decide on its own about its identity and name. No one has the right to interfere.

Q. Frequently you openly speak about Macedonia and your position is definitely made clear in your book “Macedonian Knot” which is different from the official position of German politics.

A. When I returned home after being away in Macedonia for over three years, I held a few meetings in Germany regarding the Macedonian question and about Balkan, South-European and Yugoslav matters. In all of my understanding about the population in that region I was short on information about its descent. That is why I started searching the dossiers of the German Ministry of Foreign Affairs, first at Bonn for a few months, then afterwards in Berlin for some time. In my search there I found out that the neighbouring countries close to Macedonia are entirely newly-created.

Q. A while ago you sent letters to high representatives in the EU and NATO, to Mr. Baroso and Mr. Shefer. Can we soon expect a reply? Does it happen often that a German diplomat does not receive a response from the EU and NATO?

A. They know that Greece is skillful, that it lies and that it lies to Macedonia, they know it should not be like that. Especially from the cradle of Europe, from the cradle of democratic principles. Greece needs to be held responsible for the truth and for justice. The European Commission knows that. If it continues to support Greece with its false solidarity, then there must exist larger interests behind the scenes. I believe that in the background are the Balkan Wars and relations between the Balkan League and the Entente before World War I.


[U][B][URL="http://makedonika.wordpress.com/2008/09/09/hans-lothar-steppan-the-macedonian-knot-complete-book-in-german/"]HERE IS HIS BOOK IN GERMAN[/URL][/B][/U]

Pelister 09-09-2008 11:15 PM

Thanks Daskalot.

Every individual member of the E.U who has any interest in the Macedonian question needs to have this book on their shelf.

It draws out the current issues regarding the Macedonian question, between the Macedonians and the Greeks, and exposes the lies of the Greek position.

It really does show how the Greeks have been using their political advantage over the Macedonians, for a few decades now, to rob and steal the Macedonians of their heritage, and lying with their eyes wide open to third parties about it.

I can't wait for a translation to come out in English.

Struja 09-12-2008 06:48 PM

Risto Stefov's: WHAT IS A GREEK?
 
WHAT IS A GREEK?

Deconstructing the so called “Greek Nation”

By Risto Stefov

[email]rstefov@hotmail.com[/email]

September 12, 2008

Ordinarily I couldn’t care less what the Greeks call themselves, it’s their right and who am I to interfere? But these are not ordinary times when self proclaimed Greeks take it upon themselves to dictate to others what they can and can’t call themselves.

Greeks say “Ethnic Macedonians” don’t exist! I say “Ethnic Greeks” don’t exist and I can prove it!

What makes a Macedonian an ethnic Macedonian?

According to Webster’s dictionary belonging to an ethnic group is belonging to a division of mankind as distinguished by customs, characteristics, language, common history, etc.

There should be no doubt in anyone’s mind that a large majority of people living in geographical Macedonia share common customs, traditions, songs, dances, and have a common language, a common history and a common religion that stretch back to at least one thousand years. So if we establish that such a group exists or existed in geographical Macedonia up until at least the time of Macedonia’s partition and annexation in 1912, 1913 by Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria then what should we call this group of people?

If a people lived on Macedonian lands for over a millennium, which I am sure we can establish, then a rational thinker would have no problem calling these people ‘Ethnic Macedonians” if that’s what they want to be called.

As I was browsing through the [url]www.maknews.com[/url] forum I read an article Turkey: Macedonia's best friend posted by VMRO which can also be found at this link; [url]http://www.mfa.gov.tr/denial-of-ethnic-identity.en.mfa[/url] in a Turkish official website.

Now who better than the Turks would know if Macedonians exist or not? Better still let’s see what the Turks have to say about the Greeks. After all both Macedonia and Greece belonged to Turkey for many centuries; Greece for four centuries and Macedonia for five. So I would say the Turks know something about both nations; wouldn’t you agree?

According to the information on the website;
The Greek Nation is based on the principle of belonging to the Greek race and the Greek Orthodox Church. On this subject, it is enough to glance at the speeches of the Greek statesmen about the ‘homogeneity of the Greek nation with the exception of the Muslim minority.’

If the Greek Nation is really homogeneous, one can not help but wonder about the destiny of the Albanians, the Muslim Albanians, Vlachs, Macedonians, Bulgarians, Jews as well as the Turks.
In this respect it becomes necessary to answer the question of how homogeneity has been achieved in Greek Macedonia while ethnic variety still survives in the Republic of Macedonia.”

But wait a minute what are the Turks talking about, what Albanians, Vlachs, Macedonians, Turks, etc. existing in Greece? Greece has always maintained it’s a pure and homogeneous nation with roots extending back to the so called Ancient Greeks. If their lineage does not stretch back to the ancient Greeks and ancient Macedonians of at least two-and-a-half millennium ago then how can they claim both the so called ancient Greek and Macedonian heritage as their own and at the same time exclude the ethnic Macedonians from claiming theirs?

Surely the Turks must know what they are talking about? They were the masters of Greece for four hundred years! They were the masters of Greece even before a Greek state existed or the Greeks (Romanoi) called themselves “Greeks”.

With regards to Greek claims that “no ethnic Macedonians exist in Greece” I would like to point you to the crucial question asked by the Turkish website: “In this respect, it becomes necessary to answer the question of how homogeneity has been achieved in Greek Macedonia while ethnic variety still survives in the Republic of Macedonia?” How indeed!



Before Greece became a country for the first time in 1829, the following ethnic groups lived in what today is called Greece: Arvanites (Albanians), Vlahi (Vlachs), Tourki (Turks), Slavi (Macedonians), Voulgari (Macedonians), Slavo-Makedones (Macedonians), Endopii (indigenous Macedonians), Gifti (Roma), Evreii (Jews) and others. There was absolutely no group of people called “Greeks”. These people were made into Greeks after the Greek state was created for the first time in 1829.

Before Greece was created by the Great European Powers, the Arvanites spoke the Albanian language and had their own unique customs and traditions. The Vlachs spoke the Vlach language similar to Latin and had their own unique customs and traditions. The Turks spoke the Turkish language and had their own customs and traditions. The many names the modern Greeks use, such as Slavs, Bulgars, Slavo-Macedonians, indigenous, etc., to identify the Macedonians also all spoke the Macedonian language which existed and still exists throughout all of geographic Macedonia. The Macedonians too have their own unique customs and traditions which are different from the other groups.

The Greek state, once created by the Great Powers, used force and coercion to artificially create the Greek nation by deconstructing the real ethnic identities of the Albanians, Vlachs, Turks, Macedonians, Roma and others it trapped in its borders. By stripping them of their natural mother languages the Greek state forced upon them the artificial Koine language which today is paraded as Greek.

The Koine language by the way, which many Greeks today boast connects them to the Ancients, is nothing more than an artificially imposed language which the Greek state stole from the Byzantine Church and taught to its people in school. One who learns this language in school is no more Greek, related to the ancient Greeks, than one who learns the hieroglyphs in school and claims to be related to the ancient Egyptians. But can modern Greeks see the absurdity of such claims? Judging from the thousands of e-mails I have received, apparently not!

If I may add, Greece has demonstrated its artificiality not only by imposing a dead language on its people but also by changing every place name and people’s names in all the territories since its creation. It renamed everything to make them “Greek sounding” and to demonstrate to the world how Greek Greece is! But in reality what does this really tell you? This tells me that as a Greek from Macedonia my history began in 1926 when my grandfather’s name and my village name were changed. There is no Stefou or Trigono before 1926! If I believe I was a Greek I would ask myself what was I before 1926?



So then, what makes a Greek an ethnic Greek?

Let’s see what the dictionary has to say?
According to Webster’s dictionary Greek (Graecus) is a native or modern inhabitant of Greece.

The name Greek is derived from the word Graioi originally the Latin name of a Boeotian tribe that settled in Italy in the 8th century BC.

So anyone from any ethnic origin can be a Greek as long as they inhabit the lands of modern Greece which very well defines what a real Greek is. But what makes a Greek an “ethnic Greek”? It can’t be culture, tradition or customs because the under layer of people (Albanians, Vlachs, Macedonians, Turks, Roma, etc.) that make up the Greek nation do not share similar characteristics. It can’t be language since the Koine language was adopted by the Greek state and imposed on the various diverse groups of people. Koine is not the mother language of any of these people.

So the people that make up modern Greece today shared none of the characteristics that make a group an “ethnic group” before Greece became a country for the first time in 1829.

Thus I have to conclude that “ethnic Greeks” do not exist.

So how can Greeks who themselves are NOT even Greeks and DO NOT qualify to call themselves “ethnic Greeks” are not only allowed to usurp the Ancient Greek heritage but also rob the Ancient Macedonian heritage? Furthermore how do they qualify to tell Macedonians what to do?

Obviously these people are frauds and pirates, what are we doing negotiating OUR NAME with them?

Pelister 09-12-2008 09:12 PM

I like this article.

I think that there is enough evidence, to support it. There is certainly enough empirically based evidence to support the fact that Greece was an incredibly diverse landscape, brimming with various ethnic groups. When N.G.L Hammond said "Albanians above all one the war of independance (Greek)" we really need to know what he is talking about. He is talking about ethnic Albanians as Greeks.

The Greeks appropriated the Albanian dress, fustanella, for themselves. It was never "Greek".

You may also notice, that much of the folk music of mainland Greece, are Albanian, Vlach and more recently, Macedonian tunes. In many cases, traditional ethnic Macedonian songs have the lyrics, which are in Macedonian, replaced by Greek, while the tunes remain identical. This is a curious thing. It some ways it helps some Hellenized Macedonians hold onto their heritage, but at the same time, it can be used by some Greek sociologists to point to the Greek "character" of these Macedonians.

Pelister 09-12-2008 09:42 PM

He writes that Greece never possessed Macedonia before 1913.

Something none of us should ever forget.

toothpaste 09-13-2008 02:39 AM

[QUOTE=Struja;2039]It can’t be language since the Koine language was adopted by the Greek state and imposed on the various diverse groups of people. Koine is not the mother language of any of these people.
[/quote]

:rolleyes:

VMRO 09-13-2008 03:51 AM

I'm glad i inspired Risto Stefov to write this article, well done Risto :)

I of Macedon 09-19-2008 01:14 AM

Its true that Greece got its flag from the English East India company - not suprising though given that England created Greece

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honourable_East_India_Company[/url]

And it should also be mentioned that the current Duke of Edinburgh husband to Queen Elizabeth II Prince philip (born Prince Philippos of Greece and Denmark), carry's the arms of Greece on his family's coat of arms.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Philip,_Duke_of_Edinburgh[/url]

Dimko-piperkata 09-20-2008 02:16 PM

Interview with Hans-Lothar Steppan on the Macedonian question (Full-version with English subtitles)
[url=http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=AeFuS7SjovA]YouTube - Interview with Hans-Lothar Steppan on the Macedonian question (Full-version with English subtitles)[/url]

Pelister 09-22-2008 02:11 AM

Does it make anyone else wonder what lies waiting in other archives around Europe ?

Dimko-piperkata 09-22-2008 06:14 AM

our FACTS are only the tip of the iceberg.

the highly strong fact are hidden in istanbul, vatican, russia and certainly also all involved countries from the time we were occupied by the roman empire 168 bc till nowadays.

Dimko-piperkata 09-22-2008 06:15 AM

our FACTS are only the tip of the iceberg.

the highly strong fact are hidden in istanbul, vatican, russia and certainly also all involved countries from the time we were occupied by the roman empire 168 bc till nowadays.

Dimko-piperkata 09-28-2008 05:16 AM

here´s another great video from Hans Lothar Steppan

Hans Lothar Steppan - Macedonia and their enemies
[url=http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=iSJKXmlsBLc]YouTube - Hans Lothar Steppan - Macedonia and their enemies[/url]

Dimko-piperkata 10-13-2008 02:21 PM

Modern Greeks believe Macedonia belongs....
 
[quote][B]Many Modern Greeks believe Macedonia belongs only to Greece[/B]

Risto Stefov
October 13, 2008
Before 1913 there was one Macedonia, the one and only 100% Macedonia. Now according to the Greeks there is a smaller Macedonia. This Macedonia is 51% of the original Macedonia and is now known as "Makedonia". Again, according to the Greeks, this "Makedonia" belongs to Greece and there is no other Macedonia.

If Macedonia was 100% in 1913 and 51% of Macedonia was occupied and annexed by the Greeks then what happened to the other 49% of Macedonia? Did it vanish?

If you cut Macedonia into three pieces, the three pieces are still Macedonia, just as if you cut an apple into three pieces it is still an apple, three pieces of the same apple! In other words, three pieces of Macedonia is still Macedonia! Now if you wish to identify each piece individually then you can call them A, B and C. If A is called Macedonia what should B and C be called? According to the Greeks however, if A is called Macedonia then B and C are not Macedonia´s and therefore cannot be called Macedonia!

If "Macedonia is Greek" then 100% of all of the original Macedonia must also be Greek. So why aren´t the Greeks making claims to all of Macedonia. Why did the Greeks sign the 1913 Treaty of Bucharest agreeing to divide Macedonia giving Serbia and Bulgaria 49% of it if all of Macedonia was Greek? Why indeed! Is it because Macedonia is NOT and NEVER was Greek?

Clearly if Macedonia is divided into three parts then all three parts would still be called Macedonia. Right? If the Greeks choose to call their part Makedonia, to identify it as "a part of Macedonia that belongs to Greece", then shouldn´t the other partners of the 1913 Treaty of Bucharest also have the right to call their part of Macedonia whatever they want? Isn´t the Republic of Macedonia part of the original Macedonia? Why do the Greeks make it sound as if it isn´t?

Just for the record, all Macedonians call their homeland Macedonia and distinguish each part by calling it "Aegean Macedonia" when referring to the Greek occupied part of Macedonia, "Vardar Macedonia" when referring to the former Serbian occupied part of Macedonia now independent and referred to as the Republic of Macedonia and "Pirin Macedonia" when referring to the Bulgarian part of occupied Macedonia.

The Greeks claim the name Macedonia is historically Greek but in reality look what the Greeks have done with it over the years:

When Macedonia was first divided between Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria in 1913 and Greece annexed 51% of it, the Greeks called it the "New Territories". NOT Makedonia!!

The Serbians called their part "Vardarska Binovina". "Vardarska Binovina" is the name the Serbs gave to their part of Macedonia when they made it a province of Serbia! So if there are any Greeks out there who are still confused about where the name "Vardarska Binovina" comes from, it is the name the Serbians (one of Macedonia´s occupiers), gave to their part of occupied Macedonia!

In 1935 the Greeks renamed their 51% of Macedonia to "Northern Greece". NOT Makedonia!!

Then as Yugoslavia started to disintegrate in the late 1980´s and the REAL Macedonians were about to declare their independence from Yugoslavia, Greece again in 1988 renamed their 51% of Macedonia to "Makedonia", claiming it to be the ONLY Macedonia in existence and historically belonging to Greece! Didn´t Greece just annex 51% of Macedonia in 1913 for the first time ever? What "historically" are they talking about?

Greece had its chance to call its northern province "Makedonia" from 1913 to 1989 but chose not to. They chose not to because they were all too busy trying to erase the name and eradicate its existence!

Why did Greece choose to call it "Makedonia" only after the REAL Macedonians started calling their own state Republic of Macedonia? Only the Greek "godfathers" can truly answer this question but if you ask me I would say they were attempting to lay claim to the Macedonian lands and heritage before the real Macedonians had a chance!



Worse yet, why is Greece objecting to the real Macedonians calling their state, Republic of Macedonia? Because if the name Macedonia surfaces and is not Greek, people may question. Who are these Macedonians all of a sudden? And why were the Greeks saying all along that Macedonians don´t exist?

How can the Greeks have a Macedonia and the Macedonians cannot have a Macedonia? Is this some sort of Greek logic that only the Greeks can understand?

Since the Republic of Macedonia was part of the original Macedonia why are the Greeks objecting to it being called Republic of Macedonia?

How can Macedonia be historically Greek and not Macedonian? Could it be because they are illegally holding lands and people that don´t belong to them? Didn´t the Greeks invade, occupy, partition and annex Macedonia? Didn´t they take 51% of it by force from the Macedonians in 1913?

When will the Greeks come to their senses and stop making such ridiculous claims?

The truth is Macedonia was never historically Greek. Macedonia was forcefully invaded, occupied and partitioned by Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria during the 1912, 1913 Balkan Wars. After signing the 1913 Treaty of Bucharest, 51% of Macedonia was given to Greece, 39% was given to Serbia and 10% was given to Bulgaria. This was done against the wishes of the Macedonian people who, since Macedonia´s occupation and partition, have fought for their rights. Macedonians fought for their rights during World War II and during the Greek Civil War. While the part of Macedonia under Serbian/Yugoslav control won its freedom and was declared a People´s Republic of Macedonia in 1945 under the Yugoslav federation, the parts under Greek and Bulgarian control remained occupied and the Macedonian people in those countries are without even the most basic human rights.

Greece is refusing to recognize the existence of a Macedonia beyond its own borders to hide the fact that;

Macedonia was partitioned by force in 1913 i.e. its armies fought to gain control of Macedonian territories.

Greece has occupied and is holding 51% of Macedonian lands that don´t belong to it.

Greece has exiled hundreds of thousands of ethnic Macedonians, including 28,000 refugee children and will not allow them to return. Reasons not given.

Greece has illegally expropriated properties belonging to Macedonians for which no compensation was made.

Greece has committed atrocities against the Macedonian civilian population during the 1912, 1913 Balkans Wars and during the 1946 to 1949 Greek Civil War and does not want the world to know about them.

Greece is refusing to recognize the indigenous ethnic Macedonian population living inside or outside of its borders.

Here is a history lesson for the Greeks:

The Ancient Macedonians defeated the Ancient so-called Greeks at Chaeronea in 338 BC and subjugated them from which they never recovered. The largest so-called Greek City States, including Athens, were occupied by Macedonian garrisons until 197 BC when they were freed and again re-occupied by the Romans. The so-called Ancient Greeks never set foot on Macedonian soil!

Since their defeat in 338 BC the so-called Ancient Greek City States, including Sparta, were politically subordinate to the Macedonians and for over 140 years were under Macedonian control.

So historically speaking which is more correct, "Macedonia is Greek" or Greece is Macedonian?

The truth unfortunately matters not for the Greeks when it doesn´t serve their interests!

You can contact the author at [email]rstefov@hotmail.com[/email][/quote]
[url]http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/77594[/url]

Risto the Great 10-13-2008 05:58 PM

Macedonia has more of a claim on Greece than the other way around.
This is why the Greeks keep trying to claim it.

Pelister 10-14-2008 12:13 AM

The other things to add is that in all its dealing with Yugoslavia, Greece referred to Macedonia as the "Socialist Republic of Macedonia".

Svoliani 10-14-2008 12:42 AM

' Greece again in 1988 renamed their 51% of Macedonia to "Makedonia"

Once again i go to my trusted bible, my 1974 Funk & Wagnalls New Encyclopedia and looking at a map of Greece i clearly see Macedonia listed as a province along with Thrace and Epirus etc etc.
No signs of 'New Territories or Northern Greece' anywhere.
I really need to get a new Encyclopedia set :(

Traveller 10-14-2008 08:32 AM

[QUOTE=Pelister;4059]The other things to add is that in all its dealing with Yugoslavia, [COLOR="DarkGreen"]Greece referred to Macedonia as the "Socialist Republic of Macedonia"[/COLOR].[/QUOTE]
No we didnt. We just accepted that in [COLOR="RoyalBlue"]regional summits [/COLOR] your province could have such a sign in front of them.

Pelister 10-14-2008 09:27 PM

I find it interesting that Strabo refers to the Macedonian Republic in ancient times as "free Macedonia"

Daskalot 10-15-2008 02:41 AM

[QUOTE=Svoliani;4062]' Greece again in 1988 renamed their 51% of Macedonia to "Makedonia"

Once again i go to my trusted bible, my 1974 Funk & Wagnalls New Encyclopedia and looking at a map of Greece i clearly see Macedonia listed as a province along with Thrace and Epirus etc etc.
No signs of 'New Territories or Northern Greece' anywhere.
I really need to get a new Encyclopedia set :([/QUOTE]


I would like to see a Greek source, is there one available from 1974 stating the same?

Daskalot 10-15-2008 02:42 AM

[QUOTE=Traveller;4069]No we didnt. We just accepted that in [COLOR="RoyalBlue"]regional summits [/COLOR] your province could have such a sign in front of them.[/QUOTE]

Yes you did. What you think/like/want to be today is another story.

Traveller 10-15-2008 09:01 AM

[QUOTE=Daskalot;4107]Yes you did. What you think/like/want to be today is another story.[/QUOTE]
In the thread "Brittish Foreign Office and the Macedonian identity" i 've posted excerpts of a Greek book. Read what the 1971 greek minister of foreign office says. In the early 70's...

Philosopher 10-26-2008 06:46 PM

Some Modern Greeks believe they are superior to the rest of us
 
Some Modern Greeks believe they are superior to the rest of us
by Risto Stefov


October 10, 2008
Greek claims to superiority are not something that Greeks openly tout to outsiders but it is frequently discussed among Greeks in private company, in forums, etc. I don´t know if it is a genuine belief but some Greeks do believe that they have given the world everything, from philosophy to science to mathematics to democracy, and that, they believe, makes them superior.

Even if modern Greeks are "in a small and remote way" descendants of the ancient people who lived in the ancient City States, which I doubt they are, some credit is due to them. Unfortunately not all of what was attributed to the ancient City States is accurate. Archeology and science have proven that not all of the so-called "Greek contributions" are actually "Greek". This however has not stopped Modern Greeks from making claims.

We now know that the atom was discussed in India one millennium before there ever were ancient City States. Greeks unfortunately continue to claim it as their own invention.

Even though the Egyptians were using geometry for millennia, to identify their plots of land on the Nile River flood plains after the winter floods, the Greeks continue to claim that they invented it.

Was the alphabet a Greek invention too? Greeks claim it was! But can they explain the etymology of the words "alpha", "vita", "ghamma", "thelta" etc,?

I think not! The Greek alphabet is actually not Greek at all, it is Phoenician! The Phoenicians were not Greek, they were Phoenician!

If not the alphabet then democracy must have been invented by the Greeks for sure!

I think not!

Democracy, in the true sense of the word, as it is practiced today was also practiced by the Phoenicians many years before it was adopted by Athens. Also not all ancient City States were democracies! Sparta was not a democracy.

What exactly do we mean by "democracy" and how does it relate to the type of "democracy" practiced in Athens during its heydays?

According to Webster, democracy is "majority rule; the principle of equality of rights, opportunity, and treatment, or the practice of this principle; the common people, esp. as the wielders of political power".

Athens, on the other hand, was ruled by a very small minority of wealthy white men. These men were not only rulers, they were also slave owners. Slaves, who comprised about sixty-percent of the Athenian population, were neither Athenian citizens nor did they have any political rights. In fact these people were bought and sold in the market like commodities. Further, women, who made up about half of the ancient Athenian population, did not have any rights at all, not even to call themselves human.

So if we compare Webster´s definition of democracy to that practiced in ancient Athens we find that they don´t compare at all!

In reality the type of so-called democracy practiced by the ancient Athenians was worse than our 19th century Fascism and Nazism, the type of rule popular with white racist regimes. The ancients may have called it democracy but let´s not confuse it with our modern democracy which is more like the original democracy practiced by the Phoenicians.

Two and a half millennia later Greeks keep on inventing things like Greek coffee, Greek salad and Greek pizza and keep on giving to the world without asking anything in return.

So how are Greeks superior to the rest of us? One thing they are proving to be is "superior manipulators of the truth"!

Modern Greeks, along with their Roman-derived benefactors, have not only claimed "ancient history" as their own but have robbed other civilizations of their contribution to the world. Clearly the contributions of say the Phoenician and Egyptian civilizations, which were far superior civilizations to that of ancient Athens, are totally ignored and long forgotten. Worse, their contributions have now been expropriated by the Greeks and claimed to be Greek.

Two and a half millennia later Greeks continue to expropriate other people´s ideas and inventions and shamelessly call them their own!

I have already mentioned the atom and geometry, but Greek coffee? Clearly everyone knows "Greek coffee" is actually Turkish coffee.

As for "Greek salad", that too is another "Greek invention". What is shameful about the "Greek salad", apart from the fact that it was not invented by Greeks, is that Greek restaurant owners, boasting to their western tourist customers claim it to be "an ancient recipe passed on to them from the time of the ancient City States".

Thus far the only thing that Greeks have proven is that they are "superior manipulators of the truth". Other than that Greeks are no better, no worse and no different than the rest of us. If I may add my own opinion, I believe as a people we are all the same, only our attitudes towards one another differ and that is mainly due to "political differences" and ignorance of the truth. All modern Balkan nations are made from the same stock (raw material) of people. We lived borderless for over two and a half millennia. You figure out the rest.

You can contact the author at [email]rstefov@hotmail.com[/email]

Philosopher 10-26-2008 06:53 PM

Some Modern Greeks believe they are superior to the rest of us
 
Some Modern Greeks believe they are superior to the rest of us
by Risto Stefov


October 10, 2008
Greek claims to superiority are not something that Greeks openly tout to outsiders but it is frequently discussed among Greeks in private company, in forums, etc. I don´t know if it is a genuine belief but some Greeks do believe that they have given the world everything, from philosophy to science to mathematics to democracy, and that, they believe, makes them superior.

Even if modern Greeks are "in a small and remote way" descendants of the ancient people who lived in the ancient City States, which I doubt they are, some credit is due to them. Unfortunately not all of what was attributed to the ancient City States is accurate. Archeology and science have proven that not all of the so-called "Greek contributions" are actually "Greek". This however has not stopped Modern Greeks from making claims.

We now know that the atom was discussed in India one millennium before there ever were ancient City States. Greeks unfortunately continue to claim it as their own invention.

Even though the Egyptians were using geometry for millennia, to identify their plots of land on the Nile River flood plains after the winter floods, the Greeks continue to claim that they invented it.

Was the alphabet a Greek invention too? Greeks claim it was! But can they explain the etymology of the words "alpha", "vita", "ghamma", "thelta" etc,?

I think not! The Greek alphabet is actually not Greek at all, it is Phoenician! The Phoenicians were not Greek, they were Phoenician!

If not the alphabet then democracy must have been invented by the Greeks for sure!

I think not!

Democracy, in the true sense of the word, as it is practiced today was also practiced by the Phoenicians many years before it was adopted by Athens. Also not all ancient City States were democracies! Sparta was not a democracy.

What exactly do we mean by "democracy" and how does it relate to the type of "democracy" practiced in Athens during its heydays?

According to Webster, democracy is "majority rule; the principle of equality of rights, opportunity, and treatment, or the practice of this principle; the common people, esp. as the wielders of political power".

Athens, on the other hand, was ruled by a very small minority of wealthy white men. These men were not only rulers, they were also slave owners. Slaves, who comprised about sixty-percent of the Athenian population, were neither Athenian citizens nor did they have any political rights. In fact these people were bought and sold in the market like commodities. Further, women, who made up about half of the ancient Athenian population, did not have any rights at all, not even to call themselves human.

So if we compare Webster´s definition of democracy to that practiced in ancient Athens we find that they don´t compare at all!

In reality the type of so-called democracy practiced by the ancient Athenians was worse than our 19th century Fascism and Nazism, the type of rule popular with white racist regimes. The ancients may have called it democracy but let´s not confuse it with our modern democracy which is more like the original democracy practiced by the Phoenicians.

Two and a half millennia later Greeks keep on inventing things like Greek coffee, Greek salad and Greek pizza and keep on giving to the world without asking anything in return.

So how are Greeks superior to the rest of us? One thing they are proving to be is "superior manipulators of the truth"!

Modern Greeks, along with their Roman-derived benefactors, have not only claimed "ancient history" as their own but have robbed other civilizations of their contribution to the world. Clearly the contributions of say the Phoenician and Egyptian civilizations, which were far superior civilizations to that of ancient Athens, are totally ignored and long forgotten. Worse, their contributions have now been expropriated by the Greeks and claimed to be Greek.

Two and a half millennia later Greeks continue to expropriate other people´s ideas and inventions and shamelessly call them their own!

I have already mentioned the atom and geometry, but Greek coffee? Clearly everyone knows "Greek coffee" is actually Turkish coffee.

As for "Greek salad", that too is another "Greek invention". What is shameful about the "Greek salad", apart from the fact that it was not invented by Greeks, is that Greek restaurant owners, boasting to their western tourist customers claim it to be "an ancient recipe passed on to them from the time of the ancient City States".

Thus far the only thing that Greeks have proven is that they are "superior manipulators of the truth". Other than that Greeks are no better, no worse and no different than the rest of us. If I may add my own opinion, I believe as a people we are all the same, only our attitudes towards one another differ and that is mainly due to "political differences" and ignorance of the truth. All modern Balkan nations are made from the same stock (raw material) of people. We lived borderless for over two and a half millennia. You figure out the rest.

You can contact the author at [email]rstefov@hotmail.com[/email]

Risto the Great 10-26-2008 07:27 PM

The other great Risto makes valid points that realists would find hard to refute.

Svoliani 10-26-2008 11:06 PM

Your hatred for the Ancient Greeks is astounding.
I mean what did they ever do to you guys???

Venom 10-26-2008 11:58 PM

Your LOVE for the Ancient Greeks is astounding.

I mean, what did they have to do with [I]you [/I](the current) "greeks"?

Risto the Great 10-27-2008 12:19 AM

[QUOTE=Svoliani;4660]Your hatred for the Ancient Greeks is astounding.
I mean what did they ever do to you guys???[/QUOTE]
Nothing.
Absolutely nothing.
Remember ... they lost against the Macedonians.

Svoliani 10-27-2008 02:07 AM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;4663]Nothing.
Absolutely nothing.
Remember ... they lost against the Macedonians.[/QUOTE]

And the victors went on to spread the culture of the guys who lost.

Its like winning the Superbowl and wearing the other teams jersey at the parade the next day. :D

Risto the Great 10-27-2008 02:26 AM

[QUOTE=Svoliani;4664]Its like winning the Superbowl and wearing the other teams jersey at the parade the next day. :D[/QUOTE]
It is not really like that at all.
It is more like the losers wearing the winners jersey and pretending they were the winners.

... And did you ever answer my question about your likely Russo/Ponto connections?

osiris 10-27-2008 03:27 AM

us football when they get to use their feet maybe once a game, hey you can have both the winners and the losers strips svoliani you need them to truly define yourself .

Dimko-piperkata 11-21-2008 08:46 AM

Is Greece planning to annex all of Macedonia sometime in the future?
 
[quote] [I]Risto Stefov
November 21, 2008[/I]
The "Megali idea" died with Greece´s failure to annex Turkish territories in the 1920´s but did it really die or did it just go into hibernation waiting for the right time to come about?

Since 1991 when the Republic of Macedonia declared its independence from Yugoslavia Greece has been acting kind of strange. For example it has been saying Macedonians don´t exist, Macedonia is Greek, Skopjans have territorial pretensions on the so-called "Greek-Macedonia", Skopjans are trying to steal Greek history and so on. We all know that most of what the Greeks are saying is not possible but none the less Greeks are still saying them but are we interpreting them correctly?

When the Greeks say "Macedonians do not exist" what do they really mean?

If Macedonians don´t exist then what are the majority of people who live in the Republic of Macedonia? We have been thinking that the reason Greece says Macedonians don´t exist is to cover up the fact that Greece does not want the world to know that Macedonians live in Greece. But what if that is not all the Greeks are saying?

When the Greeks say "Macedonia is Greek" what do they really mean?

We all know 51% of geographical and historic Macedonia was annexed by Greece in 1913 and no one has any doubt that Greece has a pretty strong grasp on it today. So when Greeks say Macedonia is Greek do they really mean the part of Macedonia they already have is Greek or 49% of the part they don´t have is Greek? When the Greeks say Macedonia is Greek we think they mean the part they already have but what if we are wrong and the Greeks really mean the part that they don´t have, especially the Republic of Macedonia? Besides why would they say anything about a part that is already Greek?

When the Greeks say "Skopjans have territorial pretensions on the so-called Greek-Macedonia what do they really mean?

As JS Gandeto puts it in his article "Anatomy of a bankrupt ideology" published in the American Chronicle on November 11th, 2008 at this link; [url]http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/81091[/url] "For example they [Greeks] claim that Republic of Macedonia, with 7,000 lightly armed soldiers, has territorial aspirations towards Greece with more then 250,000 soldiers armed with the latest military hardware, purchased from Russia and France with European dollars, when in fact it was the Greek army displaying her military might by holding military exercise in Northern Greece where the predominant population of the region is ethnic Macedonians". We say that´s impossible! But what if the Greeks really want to annex the Republic of Macedonia and are using this as an excuse, a pretext if you like to strike at Macedonia first presumably before Macedonia becomes powerful and strikes at Greece first?

The above mentioned Greek claims may not mean much separately and one by one but when you put them together then a pattern begins to emerge.



"There are no Macedonians therefore the Skopjans are not Macedonian and if the Skopjans are not Macedonian they cannot lay claim to Macedonian lands."

"Macedonia is Greek therefore the only Macedonians that exist are Greeks and since part of Macedonia is Greek then it only makes sense that all of Macedonia is Greek and should be annexed by Greece."

If I were selfish and well versed in "Greek logic" I too would not be beyond in thinking along these lines.

So what does this really mean?

The way I see it today Greece is at the crossroads of its existence. The rebirth of a Macedonian state has placed it in an awkward position. It´s only a matter of time before the world finds out that the creation of the Modern Greek state was based on a myth and at the expense of other ethnic groups; one being the Macedonians. If Greece recognizes the existence of a Macedonian ethnic state and a Macedonian ethnic identity its own fabricated identity will unravel. So Greece has two choices; (1) allow itself to fall apart, which I am sure is unacceptable to Greece or (2) take measures to prevent its secret from being discovered. Time will tell which way this will go but we cannot preclude the possibility that Greece will not give up without a fight. My guess is Greece will attempt to save itself by endeavoring to silence the Macedonian people.

Its first attempt at silencing the Macedonian people, which is currently ongoing, is to prohibit them from naming their state Macedonia. Greek logic dictates that if there is no Macedonia there can be no Macedonian ethnic identity! Thus the reason for the so-called "name dispute".

Failing that Greece will attempt to annex the Republic of Macedonia (Mitsotakis almost did it if only Milosovich agreed) and do to the Macedonian people there as it did to the Macedonian people inside Greece by first prohibiting them to speak their Macedonian language and then by renaming every Macedonian person´s name and every place-name with Greek names. Several generations later the Republic of Macedonia will be Greece and inhabited by pure Greeks, descendents of the Ancient Greeks. Greece is an expert on doing this. It has done it before and it will do it again. Those who don´t agree with Greece´s policy can leave and go to Canada, the USA and Australia. But before Greece attempts to exercise this option I hope it will remember the outcome of its first attempt at the "Megali idea". Then it lost the war and the lands it never had but this time it may lose more.

Desperate people will do desperate things at desperate times and some Greeks are not beyond that! So what are we to do?

One thing we can do is be very vigilant and never take things for granted, even when they sound ridiculous.

You can contact the author at [email]rstefov@hotmail.com[/email][/quote]
[url]http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/82215[/url]

great work @RISTE

Demos 12-29-2008 12:38 AM

Greece is not planning on annexing, invading, bombing, killing, attacking, or terrorizing any of its neighbors. The reason why Greece is so heavily armed for a nation of 11 million is only to be used as a deterrent in case 8 times larger Turkey decides to act militarily against Greece in the Aegean or Thrace.

The role of the Greek armed forces is defensive and only to protect the territorial integrity against any threats. That's pretty much it...

Greece has much more to gain from investing in Albania, Macedonia, and Bulgaria than taking over some poor guy's farm across the border.

Risto the Great 12-29-2008 12:57 AM

[QUOTE=Demos;7162]Greece has much more to gain from investing in Albania, Macedonia, and Bulgaria than taking over some poor guy's farm across the border.[/QUOTE]
I agree.
So why wouldn't Greece affirm that position by amending its constitution to remove any potential territorial claims? Like Macedonia has.

Demos 12-29-2008 01:01 AM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;7166]I agree.
So why wouldn't Greece affirm that position by amending its constitution to remove any potential territorial claims? Like Macedonia has.[/QUOTE]

Risto,

Which paragraph in the Greek constitution makes irredentist claims against our neighbors?

Risto the Great 12-29-2008 02:27 AM

[QUOTE=Demos;7167]Risto,

Which paragraph in the Greek constitution makes irredentist claims against our neighbors?[/QUOTE]
No, no ... they should denounce any territorial claims in the future. This is what Macedonia was forced to do. Greece should do the same in the interest of neighbourly goodwill.

osiris 12-29-2008 03:56 AM

an overwhelming majority of greeks that i have met would gladly welcome greece expanding its borders. the neo hellenic identity is built on aspiring to hellas macedonia and the roman empire as their exclusive legacy and to reclaim polis and the turkish and black sea coats is their nations latent territorial fantasy.

asking greeks to give up on polis ,are you kidding they would rather give up their native cultures instead, as indeed they have.

Sarafot 12-29-2008 04:32 AM

Are we afraid?NO!!Let them comme,that is not so simple,JNA was the powerfull army on Balkans,and they lose evry where,you know when you are your home,you have prety much advance,Slovenes forced them to pull back,also Croats,they only succed where Serb population was,any way,not only Greece also Bajgania and Šiptaria have apetites,but if one strikes,they all do,and the world will watch wright?:D
Do you guys know how many of us live in European Countreis?Ambassady boom maybe?:D:rolleyes:

Greek Histeria:eek:

Demos 12-29-2008 07:15 PM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;7179]No, no ... they should denounce any territorial claims in the future. This is what Macedonia was forced to do. Greece should do the same in the interest of neighbourly goodwill.[/QUOTE]

Greece does not have any territorial claims or ambitions in any official capacity. The posture of all our branches of the military is purely defensive in nature.

Realistically speaking, what would we have to gain by invading another much poorer country in the Balkans? Albania, Macedonia, and Bulgaria are many times more poorer than Greece both on a GDP and per capita level. The Greek economy is a service oriented economy and gaining farmlands is of little or no consequence to us.

There are no major Greek populations living outside of Greece except in the region of Northern Epirus, but most have left and come to Greece to enjoy a better standard of living.

Risto the Great 12-29-2008 07:34 PM

[QUOTE=Demos;7337]Greece does not have any territorial claims or ambitions in any official capacity. The posture of all our branches of the military is purely defensive in nature.

Realistically speaking, what would we have to gain by invading another much poorer country in the Balkans? Albania, Macedonia, and Bulgaria are many times more poorer than Greece both on a GDP and per capita level. The Greek economy is a service oriented economy and gaining farmlands is of little or no consequence to us.

There are no major Greek populations living outside of Greece except in the region of Northern Epirus, but most have left and come to Greece to enjoy a better standard of living.[/QUOTE]
With no claims, it should be really easy to amend its constitution in a similar fashion to Macedonia's.


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