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-   -   Ancient Balkan Languages - Proto Slavic Words (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=703)

Soldier of Macedon 02-17-2009 07:25 AM

Thanks Makedonin, same here.

Sarafot 02-17-2009 02:57 PM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;12003]How about the words [B]KANDISA[/B] and [B]BENDISA[/B], does anybody else here use them, and if so, what do they mean to you?
[/QUOTE]

We use them to,
Bendisa mi se forumot.
Kandisav edna kola.

Risto the Great 02-17-2009 03:24 PM

[QUOTE=makedonin;12005]Bendisa > to like somebody, to be attracted to someone.[/QUOTE]
Would you agree it also means some[I]thing[/I] as well?

That is how I know it.

I should add that in my "household katharevousa experiment" I have almost banished "aresa/aresfam" because I believe it has Greek connections. I have since discovered Bulgarians also use this word. And accept that Macedonian can possibly include ONE Greek loanword.

makedonin 02-17-2009 03:33 PM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;12024]Would you agree it also means some[I]thing[/I] as well?
That is how I know it.
[/QUOTE]
It is unfamiliar to me in that annotation.

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;12024]


I should add that in my "household katharevousa experiment" I have almost banished "aresa/aresfam" because I believe it has Greek connections. I have since discovered Bulgarians also use this word. And accept that Macedonian can possibly include ONE Greek loanword.[/QUOTE]

αρεσα > liked, to like, it is not clear if it is Greek or Bulgarian. But it would not be the first word in Bulgarian to come from Greek or vice versa.

Bulgarians use the word Hora> people, Narod. It comes from Greek Χωρα > state which only renders how the Bulgarians percieve their Nation. State equals People and vice versa.

With out State no People in other words.

Soldier of Macedon 02-18-2009 02:02 AM

Good observation Makedonin.

Risto, this is how I would use Bendisa, and it would be more for an object rather than a person:

Mi se bendisa kolata
Nogu e bendisvam kukyata

or for a person,

Ti se bendisa chupeto?



Macedonians use Graf or Grah (depending on the dialect) coming from Grasha(k), which is not a loanword. However, Serbs use Pasulj for the same food, which seems to be a loan from the Greek Fasoulia, unless it is ultimately a Latin word, not sure.

makedonin 02-18-2009 04:32 AM

You are welcome SoM.

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;12059]
However, Serbs use Pasulj for the same food, which seems to be a loan from the Greek Fasoulia, unless it is ultimately a Latin word, not sure.[/QUOTE]

Fasulye is also used by the Turks and Фасул in Bulgarian. Not sure if it is a Greek word either.:D

Soldier of Macedon 02-18-2009 04:45 AM

On google Translate, 'beans' in Slovenian is Fizhol, in Polish it is Fasola, in Slovak it is Fazula, in Ukrainian it is Kvasolya, in Russian it is Fasol, in Bulgarian it is Fasul, but in Serbian and Croatian it is Grah. Interesting, this points to a Slavic origin.

Risto the Great 02-18-2009 03:00 PM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;12059]Macedonians use Graf or Grah (depending on the dialect) coming from Grasha(k), which is not a loanword. However, Serbs use Pasulj for the same food, which seems to be a loan from the Greek Fasoulia, unless it is ultimately a Latin word, not sure.[/QUOTE]

Ajde be ... it is "bop".
And it certainly does.

makedonin 02-18-2009 03:35 PM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;12089]Ajde be ... it is "bop".
And it certainly does.[/QUOTE]

It is true, other word for kind of a Beans used by Bulgarians and Russians is BOB

look up here, I ain't sure about the accuracy but anyways:

[url]http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%B1[/url]

Some more on it:

[url]http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bean[/url]

Sarafot 02-18-2009 03:44 PM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;12073]On google Translate, 'beans' in Slovenian is Fizhol, in Polish it is Fasola, in Slovak it is Fazula, in Ukrainian it is Kvasolya, in Russian it is Fasol, in Bulgarian it is Fasul, but in Serbian and Croatian it is Grah. Interesting, this points to a Slavic origin.[/QUOTE]

Slovenians say bob to single ''zrno'' of fiol-bop

makedonin 02-18-2009 03:50 PM

Here is some more:

[QUOTE]Proto-IE: *bhabh-

Meaning: bean

Slavic: *bobъ

Germanic: *bau-nō(n-) f. < *bab-n-ō

Latin: faba f. `Bohne'

Other Italic: Falisc haba 'Bohne'

Russ. meaning: растение (боб)

References: WP II 131

[url]http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?root=config&morpho=0&basename=\data\ie\piet&first=241[/url][/QUOTE]

Interesting reference: [URL="http://dnghu.org/indoeuropean/Notes.pdf"]A GRAMMAR OF MODERN INDO-EUROPEAN[/URL]

makedonin 02-18-2009 04:11 PM

From the A GRAMMAR OF MODERN INDO-EUROPEAN I posted above:

The IE Indo-European verb [B]dō[/B], give
[B]Phryg. dadn[/B]
Modern Macedonian Dade(n) to give (given)

The Phrygian connection.

Soldier of Macedon 02-18-2009 04:11 PM

So would that also be related to 'Bobinka', those nuts?

Risto the Great 02-18-2009 04:35 PM

While we are at it (and since I claim Macedonian superiority being from Dolno Kotori :D ) ... how about "arno" or "aren". Who else uses it?

Risto the Great 02-18-2009 04:37 PM

A Russian Jew came to my place last night. Long story I hope to tell here at some other time, but I asked him if he knew "razbuda" .... he said "razbudit". And was quite surprised at the connection.

Delodephius 02-18-2009 04:39 PM

In Slovak we use [I]bb[/I], [I]fazuľa [/I]and [I]hrach [/I]for different types of bean plants. [I]Bb [/I]and [I]fazuľa [/I]are reserved for beans, [I]hrach [/I]means peas. We also use [I]mauny [/I]for green beans ([I]zelen bb[/I]), or what Serbs call [I]boranija[/I]. The diminutive of [I]hrach [/I]is [I]hrok[/I]. (In Slovak [B]g>h[/B], not like Macedonian or Serbian [B]x[/B], but like in English [B]h[/B], as in [B]h[/B]ouse or [B]h[/B]orse.)

makedonin 02-18-2009 04:52 PM

Indo-European bhres-/bhars-, spelt, barley, grain

[B]Phryg. brisa[/B]
[B]OCS braĭno[/B]
Modern Macedonian Brashno > flour from barley, grain or spelt.

El Bre 02-18-2009 06:11 PM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;12100]While we are at it (and since I claim Macedonian superiority being from Dolno Kotori :D ) ... how about "arno" or "aren". Who else uses it?[/QUOTE]

Arno, Aren / Arna are very common in my kneck of the woods. Althogh, in Canada these words have been replaced with the undoubtedly Indo-European - ORRIGHT.

Sho Priash?
ORRIGHT Sum!

:)

El Bre 02-18-2009 06:16 PM

Which do you use?

Kookja or Kushtcha?

Jabolko or Lapka?

and where are you from?

Risto the Great 02-18-2009 06:39 PM

Lerinsko:
Kukja
(J)abolka ... sometimes the J is not heard.

El Bre 02-18-2009 06:59 PM

My Dad, who is also from the Lerin area, uses jabolko (actually jaboko) and kukja, where as my Mom, who is from northern Kostur uses lapka and kushtcha.

Pelister 02-19-2009 12:24 AM

El bre, are you a statichanec?

My family from that village use the words jaboko, and kukja too, but the word for fork is shtipka I think.

Soldier of Macedon 02-19-2009 04:54 AM

Shtipka is a peg in my dialect, like when you hang your clothes up.

Aren and Arno are used extensively by all people from Bitola, and I am sure among most other Macedonians. Jabolko or Jaboko (depending on the context and laziness, lol), Sega or Sea (depending on the context), Kukja only in my neck of the woods.

I have said it before and I will say it again, the Kostur dialect is one of the most interesting and archaic-sounding of all Macedonian dialects.

El Bre 02-19-2009 05:50 PM

Shtipki seems to be used for anything that makes a pinching action, from clothespegs as SoM mentioned to tongs.

Yes Pelister, half of my family is from Statitsa. The word for fork is vilitchka.

Soldier of Macedon 02-19-2009 08:20 PM

I say Vilushka for fork.

Pelister 02-19-2009 10:21 PM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;12100]While we are at it (and since I claim Macedonian superiority being from Dolno Kotori :D ) ... how about "arno" or "aren". Who else uses it?[/QUOTE]

My grandmother uses, [I]Arno[/I] and [I]Aren[/I].

Hey RTG, I remember you once saying you had a connection to Kotori. There is an old community of Macedonians in Western Sydney, from Kotori. They have a community centre there, I've been there a few times as I have relations in that part of the world.

El Bre 02-19-2009 10:34 PM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;12204]I say Vilushka for fork.[/QUOTE]

This thread has taken an interesting turn, the subtle and not so subtle variances in speach is something always intrigued me. In some places you could climb over a hill and find a whole new patois.

Risto the Great 02-19-2009 11:56 PM

[QUOTE=Pelister;12214]My grandmother uses, [I]Arno[/I] and [I]Aren[/I].

Hey RTG, I remember you once saying you had a connection to Kotori. There is an old community of Macedonians in Western Sydney, from Kotori. They have a community centre there, I've been there a few times as I have relations in that part of the world.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I have some relatives there I believe.
I know one Alex from there who is a distant cousin. I never got to go there when the Kotortsi had their village dances.

Soldier of Macedon 02-20-2009 11:08 AM

Here are some cutlery and kitchen items in my dialect:

Nozh (or Nozhitsi for scissors)
Vilushka (or Vilufche for a smaller one)
Laitsa (or laiche for a smaller one)
Paintsa (or Painche for a smaller one)
Tava (or Tavche for a smaller one)
Sukalo
Chasha

Soldier of Macedon 02-23-2009 05:25 AM

"[B]Chi si ti[/B]" - Who else uses this?

makedonin 02-23-2009 05:58 AM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;12401]"[B]Chi si ti[/B]" - Who else uses this?[/QUOTE]

Chij si ti in shtipsko

Soldier of Macedon 02-23-2009 06:22 AM

Chi si ti, or Chije si ti, Chija si ti. We also say 'Na koi si ti', or 'Od kai kur doide', well, the last one we reserve for Grkomani mostly, lol ;)

Soldier of Macedon 02-23-2009 06:26 AM

With regard to the words Bendisa and Kandisa, I am not aware of their use by the other Slavic languages, not even Bulgarian or Serbian.

Can you confirm this Makedonin?

makedonin 02-23-2009 06:35 AM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;12405]With regard to the words Bendisa and Kandisa, I am not aware of their use by the other Slavic languages, not even Bulgarian or Serbian.

Can you confirm this Makedonin?[/QUOTE]

Yep never heard of them in Bulg and Serb either.

Bulg always use Aresa as for Serb Svidja instead of Bendisa.

As for Kandisa they use variaty of words depending of the situation. But never heard the Kandisa word used by any of those two.

makedonin 02-23-2009 06:38 AM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;12404]'Od kai kur doide', well, the last one we reserve for Grkomani mostly, lol ;)[/QUOTE]

We use that for Bulgs :D or 'Koj Kurats sakash be' :D

yep the versions for 'Chij si ti' as well 'Na koi si ti' are used over here as well.

Soldier of Macedon 02-23-2009 06:45 AM

Interesting, I have heard Macedonians use Sfigya or Sviga also.

So the following seem to be unique Macedonian words from what we have searched thus far;

Glushets/Glufets (Mouse)
Bendisa (Fancy)
Kandisa (Convince)


Let's keep adding more.

makedonin 02-23-2009 07:07 AM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;12408]Interesting, I have heard Macedonians use Sfigya or Sviga also.
[/QUOTE]

It could be Serbicism import used vastly in Macedonia in some occations.

But Bendisa is in deed unique and common used.

What about Dzunica ie. Ѕуница.

Is there some one who is using this one. It means rainbow.

It is vastly used in Eastern Macedonia. It has common Root for kind of Vibraiton, sound or light.

Example:

Zvuk
DZvzda
Zrak
Dzirka
etc. many such examples.

where as the sound DZ <> Ѕ being diftong is sometimes simplified and substituted with Z.


By the way, Bulgs and Serbs have no idea of what that word means.

Soldier of Macedon 02-23-2009 07:18 AM

I'd have to ask the elders for that one, I don't recall hearing it.

Soldier of Macedon 02-23-2009 07:18 AM

Is the word Chedo used by anybody other than the Macedonians and our Tatarised cousins in the east?

osiris 02-23-2009 08:03 AM

well done som at last some words uniquely nashi. serbs say chedo i think.


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