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-   -   Albanianization in Macedonia (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4837)

Risto the Great 01-29-2012 04:44 PM

I am in a minority that believes a war is the only solution for Macedonia. Without foreign intervention, the ethnic Albanians of Macedonia (both recent immigrants and the more permanent citizens) will understand they are a minority with privileged rights that exceed those available in more advanced and democratic nations. It is unsustainable.

You chose not to comment on the consequences of a population transfer that mirrored what happened with 150,000 Albanian Kosovars into Macedonia in recent times. Seriously, why would the framework agreement be drawn to give a new mass of people more rights than the majority of the citizens in a nation?

arqe88 01-29-2012 04:53 PM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;119049]I am in a minority that believes a war is the only solution for Macedonia. Without foreign intervention, the ethnic Albanians of Macedonia (both recent immigrants and the more permanent citizens) will understand they are a minority with privileged rights that exceed those available in more advanced and democratic nations. It is unsustainable.

You chose not to comment on the consequences of a population transfer that mirrored what happened with 150,000 Albanian Kosovars into Macedonia in recent times. Seriously, why would the framework agreement be drawn to give a new mass of people more rights than the majority of the citizens in a nation?[/QUOTE]

macedonian govermnet know that albanians will become majority sooner or later, and all the rights they have been given is due to the albanian percantage in macedonia (25%). The macedonian government is prepparing for transition of power to the albanians. Its up to the ordinary macedonians to change the tide.

Vangelovski 01-29-2012 05:02 PM

[quote=arqe88;119051]macedonian govermnet know that albanians will become majority sooner or later, and all the rights they have been given is due to the albanian percantage in macedonia (25%). The macedonian government is prepparing for transition of power to the albanians. Its up to the ordinary macedonians to change the tide.[/quote]
[COLOR=#390002][FONT=Verdana]Arqe88, lets just clarify some things here. The Albanians in Macedonia were not granted "rights", they were granted special privileges, including the nullification of one of the most basic democratic principles – ‘one man, one vote’. Because of the Badinter Principle in the Framework Agreement, the Albanian vote is weighted as much more than ‘one man, one vote’. Even majorities do not warrant such treatment, let alone minorities.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#390002][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#390002][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR]

arqe88 01-29-2012 05:11 PM

[QUOTE=Vangelovski;119054][COLOR=#390002][FONT=Verdana]Arqe88, lets just clarify some things here. The Albanians in Macedonia were not granted "rights", they were granted special privileges, including the nullification of one of the most basic democratic principles – ‘one man, one vote’. Because of the Badinter Principle in the Framework Agreement, the Albanian vote is weighted as much more than ‘one man, one vote’. Even majorities do not warrant such treatment, let alone minorities.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#390002][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#390002][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

why would they do that ?. In my opinion voting is a scam anyway, i think macedonian government and albanian politicians are in cahoots with each other.

Vangelovski 01-29-2012 05:41 PM

[quote=arqe88;119057]why would they do that ?. In my opinion voting is a scam anyway, i think macedonian government and albanian politicians are in cahoots with each other.[/quote]Why would they do what? What does the fact that the politicians being in "cahoots" with each other have to do with democratic practice? There are fundamental philosophical and practical reasons why democracies have the 'one man, one vote' system. Can you think of any? You should, one day you will realise that it actually matters to you personally.

Risto the Great 01-29-2012 06:50 PM

[QUOTE=arqe88;119057]why would they do that ?. In my opinion voting is a scam anyway, i think macedonian government and albanian politicians are in cahoots with each other.[/QUOTE]

Seriously arqe88, do you want intelligent dialogue? Voting may well be a scam in Kosovo and Macedonia as well but that does not mean it is a system that should be ignored.

[QUOTE]macedonian govermnet know that albanians will become majority sooner or later, and all the rights they have been given is due to the albanian percantage in macedonia (25%). The macedonian government is prepparing for transition of power to the albanians. Its up to the ordinary macedonians to change the tide.[/QUOTE]

Same old tiresome stuff. The recent 150,000 immigrants from Kosovo were the fastest population change in Macedonia ever. Aside from that, don't hold your breath for massive changes. You are relying on myths.

arqe88 01-30-2012 06:13 AM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;119066]Seriously arqe88, do you want intelligent dialogue? Voting may well be a scam in Kosovo and Macedonia as well but that does not mean it is a system that should be ignored.



Same old tiresome stuff. The recent 150,000 immigrants from Kosovo were the fastest population change in Macedonia ever. Aside from that, don't hold your breath for massive changes. You are relying on myths.[/QUOTE]

would you still call albanians minoritiey after they become majority ?, albanians will not be a minority in 2030. Tehy are majority in serval cities in macedonia. And 44% of the kids that are 0-4 years old are albanians.

George S. 01-30-2012 06:37 AM

arqe 988,
i have never met an albanian yet who is not for the greater albania interest.You talk about when 2030 you are going to be a majority & how you are just going to take over.We all know the politicians are stupid & have made silly & stupid promises but do you think the normal civil folk are simply going to let you take over like in the balkan wars.Wham bam thank you mam.What right have you got to claim macedonia as yours when allready there are indigenous people.When all is said & done maybe the people don;t care enough but the albanians could not care about anybody but themselves & also they are hell bemt on taking over macedonia & linking up with kosovo.

Brian 01-30-2012 08:35 AM

But that's the beauty of multiculturalism and democracy (voting) and the (new) majority doing whatever they want. I'm sure Crvekovski was laughing all the way to the bank when he handed out new citizenships to people who may never have been in Macedonia but for fleeing over the border as refugees. Ako mu kleknis ke ti trija sol na glata.

Brian 01-30-2012 09:53 AM

Where's UMD's response? At least WMC had their say, although I doubt the government will listen.

[QUOTE][B]Cair municipality is not only the Albanians[/B]

[url]http://www.vest.mk/?ItemID=2F2A0DFA30A38E489A41295D37AB6602[/url]

REACTION OF THE WORLD MACEDONIAN CONGRESS AFTER THE DECISION TO RENAME SCHOOLS

World Macedonian Congress requested reconsideration of the Municipality of Cair four primary schools to get Albanian names.

"Cair municipality is not only the Albanians. The municipality has original jurisdiction, however, must be attentive to the feelings of all citizens. not discuss the genesis of selected new names, but some of them need to be Macedonian, as was found in the previous seventy years. The decision can not take effect until the municipality does not consent to it by the government, "said Todor Petrov, president of the World Macedonian Congress.

The Municipality of Cair yesterday did not receive comment on the reactions of the World Macedonian Congress, nor the announced review of the new decision to rename the four elementary schools.
Cair Municipality Council decided last week that schools bear the names of four Macedonian revolutionaries to obtain the names of Albanian heroes and patriots.
Elementary School "Rajko Zinzifov" be renamed "Ismail
Kemal "the school" Cvetan Dimov "- in" Hasan Prishtina "," Jane Sandanski "- in" Yasar Bey, "and school" Nikola Vaptsarov "named" Imri Elezi. "

Opshtinarite explained that the change is made ​​to comply with the Badinter principle, and the decision will take effect once the change is published in "Official Journal" for one week.

The names of Albanian heroes and patriots, opshtinarite say, are selected on the proposal of Albanian citizens and school boards. (MG)[/QUOTE]


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