An Imperative Appeal to the Christian World (1903)

[TrueMacedonian]

I will also add these pages to Daskalot's thread here - http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...367#post105367

I believe this article deserves its own topic. What are your thoughts?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Good find TM, just read it, keep em' coming.

[TrueMacedonian]

Thanks SoM. When I have some more time I will see what else I have in my files to post.

[Onur]

Not related with your "finding old documents which mentions about Macedonians" issue, that`s something else but the content of this particular paper is just a Russian-Bulgarian version of pure propaganda.

Russian consul reports the Turkish brutality.
Turks roasting kids and using pepper to them more tasty(!!! hmm, yeah right! . i think they would prefer using pepper as a seasoning on kebabs instead).
Turks desecrating churches. Greeks and Serbians are parasites, vassals of Turks.
Austrian empire annexed Bosnia and it suddenly became paradise on earth(!!!, lol?)
New Bulgarian state is small and weak. "Greater Bulgaria" needs to be realized to make it more effective. How? ofc by adding Macedonia to it.
Bulgaria and Russia wont tolerate this anymore

I didn't read all of it but i noticed some more weird stuff like Kurdish hamidiye forces supposedly killed Armenians in Adrionople!! This is a lie cuz Kurdish forces only operated in eastern Anatolia. Before 1970s, there was no Kurdish people in Adrionople and never been b4.


I saw Greek-British papers like this too, with British consul reporting Turkish atrocities, Bulgarians and Russians are evil, Macedonians are orthodox, therefore they are Greeks. Neither British nor Greeks wont tolerate this anymore.

Then Serbian version reporting Turkish atrocities, only Serbs lives in Macedonia and Serbia wont tolerate this anymore.

[George S.]

From what i have read the kurds were given the marsh area in Iraq they could all be accomodated there.Also TM that's a great find especially before the 1913 balkan wars that's great.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Turks roasting kids.......

There are several disgusting reports about Ottoman 'reprisals', I don't see the above as unrealistic. As for the adding of pepper to make "them more tasty" - the article doesn't say that, instead that is your own exaggeration.

Turks desecrating churches.

That did happen.

Greeks and Serbians are parasites, vassals of Turks.

That did happen.

From the article:

The Bulgarian revolutionists – outsiders – had planned to precipitate a revolution form the outside in the interest of Bulgarian extension, but the Macedonians had resented this interference, had driven the revolutionary bands out of the country, and had then gone quietly to their homes to bide their own time.

Does that sound like Bulgarian propaganda to you?

[Onur]

There are several disgusting reports about Ottoman 'reprisals', I don't see the above as unrealistic. As for the adding of pepper to make "them more tasty" - the article doesn't say that, instead that is your own exaggeration.

It speaks about roasted kids and peppers;


I have no intention to discuss about what you believe or not cuz that`s up to you but what i am saying is, the soldiers who got graduated from the school in Bitola, doesn't roast kids after they get their diplomas and graduation pictures. The ones who did atrocities was Albanian bashibozuks but roasting kids, that`s a lie. This is just a dirty propaganda to demonize them in the eyes of ordinary people. They were saying this 100 years ago just like they talk about "weapons of mass destruction" today. That doesn't mean Saddam was a saint but he didn't have weaps. of MD either.

Yes, they surely rushed to the towns and razed over the ones where the revolutionary bands got supported but you shouldn't believe everything you read in the propaganda papers.

I believe that Macedonia between 1890s to 1912 was the first ever representation of a modern propaganda war, involving many different sides.

[Soldier of Macedon]

It speaks about roasted kids and peppers;

I know what it says Onur, I read it completely. There is nothing that speaks of children being peppered in preparation for being more "tasty", like you suggested earlier, as if the writer was implying that the Turks were going to eat the children. The reason why pepper was used was to intensify the burning sensation from the fire that the children were thrown in.

I have no intention to discuss about what you believe or not cuz that`s up to you but what i am saying is, the soldiers who got graduated from the school in Bitola, doesn't roast kids after they get their diplomas and graduation pictures. The ones who did atrocities was Albanian bashibozuks.......

So are those graduates less guilty because they gave the order rather than carry out the act themselves? Put things into perspective and accept the truth. I am well aware that the bashibozuks committed most of the crimes, but Turks aren't free from guilt either.

..........but roasting kids, that`s a lie.

I doubt it, in fact there are similar crimes recorded like the one about an Ottoman soldier carrying an infant on his bayonet. Similar things happened to your people during the revolution in what became Greece. This wasn't the same as the US talking about weapons of mass destruction, I think that is a poor and insensitive analogy, not only for my people but for yours too.

Yes, they surely rushed to the towns and razed over the ones where the revolutionary bands got supported but you shouldn't believe everything you read in the propaganda papers.

I don't believe everything, but based on other material I have read, what was written in this article isn't far from what has actually happened elsewhere.

[Onur]

I know what it says Onur, I read it completely. There is nothing that speaks of children being peppered in preparation for being more "tasty", like you suggested earlier, as if the writer was implying that the Turks were going to eat the children. The reason why pepper was used was to intensify the burning sensation from the fire that the children were thrown in.

Yes, it doesn't directly say that but that`s the tone and that`s what they imply. Even this is a proof of a lie cuz if this would really happened, then surely the christian editors of this journal would directly write it in great detail, not by playing with the words and indirect implies.

there are similar crimes recorded like the one about an Ottoman soldier carrying an infant on his bayonet. Similar things happened to your people during the revolution in what became Greece

Yes, these atrocities happened in Morea in 1820s, Crete in 1890s, Bulgaria in 1870s but they were trying to create new states and they needed to confiscate all the lands which occupied by the members of the former rulers and atrocities would cause them to flee, making things easier for the process of confiscation.

But, Macedonia was already a ~550 year old Ottoman territory, so why they would do what Greeks, Bulgarians did. It was already their own land and the people who lives in there was already the same people for ~550 years. Yes, i am sure that they did brutal repression to the insurgents and their partners but roasting innocent kids of innocent people? Nope, that`s not logic and there should be a logic even for atrocities.

Also, if we consider the usual Balkan mentality about Ottoman era, if such a thing would really had happened, i bet that you would do commemorations for these children in Macedonia, just like Bulgarians, Serbs, Greeks does every year for few murdered people over 100-600 years ago.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Yes, it doesn't directly say that but that`s the tone and that`s what they imply.

Onur, it doesn't imply what you're suggesting, neither directly or indirectly. You're looking for something that isn't there.

But, Macedonia was already a ~550 year old Ottoman territory, so why they would do what Greeks, Bulgarians did.

What exactly are you trying to defend here, mate? Are you asking why Turks would carry out atrocities in Macedonia? Are you asking why Macedonians wanted to liberate their own land from the Ottoman yoke? The majority of Turks in Macedonia weren't even from the initial Ottoman invasion, they were mostly recent settlers from territories conquered by the Russians.

Yes, i am sure that they did brutal repression to the insurgents and their partners but roasting innocent kids of innocent people? Nope, that`s not logic and there should be a logic even for atrocities.

That's probably one of the most illogical things you've said on this forum. You are demonstrating naivety by assuming that those who carried out the atrocities and massacres had a purpose and vision beyond their actions. The facts are much simpler, as were their intentions. Depraved animals that went around raping women and torturing children don't apply logic. If you aren't prepared to accept that in 550 years some of your people did this to others, and ordered their lackeys to do the same, then you are in denial.

Also, if we consider the usual Balkan mentality about Ottoman era, if such a thing would really had happened, i bet that you would do commemorations for these children in Macedonia, just like Bulgarians, Serbs, Greeks does every year for few murdered people over 100-600 years ago.

Unfortunately for Macedonia, too many atrocities took place for them to all be commemorated. And all of you - Turks, Serbs, Bulgars, Greeks and Albanians - played your part. In my eyes none were any better than the other towards Macedonians. About this so-called Balkan mentality, have a think about what led to its development.

Tell me, what good do you think the Ottoman Empire did for the Balkans? I'm not asking you to compare it with the rule of others, I just want to know what positive deliverables were achieved after such an extensive period. Anything relative to infrastructure, the economy, human rights, etc? In 550 years, did Macedonia progress even an inch on any of those fronts?

[George S.]

I think it's healthy for people to admit past wrongs & come to terms & move on to a better future not like some other people who are in denial & can't even admit things.SOM you are right all sides committed attrocities on the macedonians.Some to the extent of obliterating
whole towns & villages,burning of babies should be condemed,if it happened today they would be in the hague for ethnic cleansing & genocides.