Greek Gen Sec of Education: Identity created in 19th Century

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • George S.
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 10116

    #16
    yes voltron some people are led by a leash tied to their nose & they know it but are afraid to admit it.They get fed propaganda & bs & eventually crack under pressure as it's irrational.But they go on trying to depict us as the bad guys after their land.But when one looks at the facts it's the otherway around.These people like Dragos that reveal the truth about greece as i fear for them after they have made the comments they have made there willl be reprissals against them as they aren't following the set "norm".Loss of jobs status,jail,beatings etc etc.
    Last edited by George S.; 05-11-2011, 04:52 AM. Reason: ed
    "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
    GOTSE DELCEV

    Comment

    • Voltron
      Banned
      • Jan 2011
      • 1362

      #17
      If there are reprisals it will be because they have driven this country into an economic blackhole. Not because of what Ms Dragos thinks.

      Comment

      • George S.
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2009
        • 10116

        #18
        Well voltron given to what's going on in greece do you think the ordinary man & woman will have had a gutfull & start revolting.You can't just say they don't care but they must have an anger at the way they have been lied to by the govt.From my discussions with greeks living in the diaspora they say they had enough of the politics & bs & have come for a better life.They said in greece it's like a powderkeg waiting soon to explode.
        "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
        GOTSE DELCEV

        Comment

        • Voltron
          Banned
          • Jan 2011
          • 1362

          #19
          Originally posted by George S. View Post
          Well voltron given to what's going on in greece do you think the ordinary man & woman will have had a gutfull & start revolting.You can't just say they don't care but they must have an anger at the way they have been lied to by the govt.From my discussions with greeks living in the diaspora they say they had enough of the politics & bs & have come for a better life.They said in greece it's like a powderkeg waiting soon to explode.
          Im hoping it does explode. We need to clean the slate.
          Im just hoping for sooner rather than later. Im also considering going back home. But im not so sure how much better off things are over there. The weather in the midwest is something that I dont know if I could cope with it again.

          Comment

          • George S.
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2009
            • 10116

            #20
            i don't think it's the ordinary citizens more like the govt policies & practices.When it's all said & done we all want the same thing.A job.roof over our heads ,a family,a car etc we all aspire to the same things.Voltron i hope that its sooner than later.I hope as well something happens in rom & clears rhe deck for a better future.
            "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
            GOTSE DELCEV

            Comment

            • Onur
              Senior Member
              • Apr 2010
              • 2389

              #21
              Originally posted by Voltron View Post
              Julie,

              We are not so different in the way both our countries lost land. I remember wanting to spit on the minarets that were planted on Aghia Sophia. What can we do ?
              You lost where, you idiot??? Greece is the most expansionist country in Balkans and probably the one of most in whole world for the last 200 years. You expanded your borders for 4 times since you created Greece. Crete first, then Macedonia, Aegean islands and Thrace. Then we kicked your ass in your 5th attempt for Anatolia.

              What if i say, we lost Morea, Crete? I can prove mine since we ruled in there for 500+ years. OR Italians can prove it too cuz they ruled in there during centuries long Roman times. Already, they tried to get back what they lost b4 by invading Morea in WW-2. So, in that sense, it wasn't an invasion at all but it can be considered as getting back what they lost previously.

              Go ahead, prove us your former possession and then your lost but do not try to tell me that you are the grandson of Sophocles cuz i told you b4, if you claim that you are the descendants of Homeros, then i would play same stupid game and claim that i am a Lydian or Hittitian and i am more indigenous here than you ancient Greeks, OK? Trust me, i can be more Lydian than you can ever be an ancient Greek!!!

              Cant get along with minarets on Hagia Sophia? Then do not come here and dream about that by looking photoshop`ed Hagia Sophia postcards sold in Greece without minarets on the picture




              I remember wanting to spit on the minarets that were planted on Aghia Sophia.

              Im hoping it does explode. We need to clean the slate.
              You live as what you deserve. I don't think you guys can have a "clean" state with all that slimy loogie all around you.
              Last edited by Onur; 05-11-2011, 12:54 PM.

              Comment

              • Voltron
                Banned
                • Jan 2011
                • 1362

                #22
                Just got done writing a post and it asks for me to login. Then the post disappears into an oblivion. Christ is that annoying.

                Anyway Onur, Im going to make it brief.

                The "5th attempt" is identical to what happened to ethnic Macedonians.
                Asia Minor catastrophe is what triggered the settlement in Macedonia (you got it backwards). Then you have the Treaty of Sevres and the failure of us to keep the Treaty. We risked going as far as Ankara and lost. We paid the price.

                Regarding the "ruling" of us. You couldnt rule a boyscout club. Greeks and Armenians did the managerial jobs. You even employed Albanians as Pasha's.

                Lastly regarding my connection to Ancient Greeks. Well, your not exactly Arp Arlsan either. Here, just in case you forgot how real Turks look like.

                Last edited by Voltron; 05-11-2011, 03:04 PM.

                Comment

                • Onur
                  Senior Member
                  • Apr 2010
                  • 2389

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                  The "5th attempt" is identical to what happened to ethnic Macedonians. Asia Minor catastrophe is what triggered the settlement in Macedonia (you got it backwards).
                  No, thats not true. Greek leaders, namely Venizelos was thinking about altering the population of Macedonia since day one in 1913 because at that time, Greeks was only ~10% in there and more than 1/3rd of Greece was Turks, rest was Macedonians, Vlachs and Albanians. Remember that most of your neo-hellenic Arvanites was still speaking Albanian at that time. Ofc that demographics of Greece wasn't quite like the hellenic state as Venizelos dreamed of.




                  "Paris 1919: Six Months That Changed the World",
                  by Margaret MacMillan




                  So, altering the population of Macedonia in favor of so-called Greeks was the primal aim but Venizelos postponed it at first because he was also aiming to invade Anatolia, making Istanbul as the capital of his mythical hellenic empire. But when your megali-idea has been destroyed by us, he immediately wanted to create new pseudo-hellenic Macedonia as soon as possible;


                  "Ionian vision: Greece in Asia Minor, 1919-1922",
                  by Michael Llewellyn Smith


                  Remember that we kicked the last Arvano-Greek soldier`s outta Izmir in 09.September.1922. Check the date of Venizelos`s declaration above, about transforming western Thrace and Macedonia as ethnologically Greek. It`s October 1922. Thats only the days after you lost the war but it`s about a year earlier than the Lausanne peace conference where the population exchange has been requested from us by the Greece&British for the first time.


                  I don't like to speak out from my ass unlike you Voltron. Your neo-hellenic propaganda doesn't do the trick around here.



                  Regarding the "ruling" of us. You couldnt rule a boyscout club. Greeks and Armenians did the managerial jobs. You even employed Albanians as Pasha's.
                  Thats how empires runs, otherwise Ottoman empire wouldn't possibly live for more than 600 years. But i don't expect from you to comprehend this since you neither have culture nor enough intelligence for that.



                  Lastly regarding my connection to Ancient Greeks. Well, your not exactly Arp Arlsan either. Here, just in case you forgot how real Turks look like.
                  Well, no one around here claims his own nation to solely consists of the direct descendants of their forefathers except you neo-hellenes. You guys are the one who claim that and thats our point here.

                  Thanks for your comical thoughts about today`s Kyrgyz people being the only so-called real Turks. That was good entertainment but remember, i told you that we are the Lydians and i am the direct descent of the last Lydian king and i carry his olive branch crown on my head!!! We are more indigenous here than you Greeks
                  Last edited by Onur; 05-11-2011, 04:35 PM.

                  Comment

                  • Risto the Great
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 15658

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                    Risto, I just didnt see how Thalia Dragos is worth mentioning. Another liberal with an opinion that wants to be heard. Sorry.
                    Oh c'mon. It is courageous stuff coming from a person who lives and breathes in such a racist and xenophobic state as modern Greece. It is cultural suicide to make such admissions because modern Greece has numerous ethnic skeletons in its closet.

                    I predict that within the next 50 years we will see a new dynamic coming from Greece. That the modern identity is an amalgam of the neighbouring ethnicities it has swallowed up in the last 200 years and how it will seek a Balkan federation to capitalise on this "brotherhood". It will be a result of the end of the EU for Greece and interesting times ahead for the Balkans.
                    Risto the Great
                    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                    Comment

                    • Onur
                      Senior Member
                      • Apr 2010
                      • 2389

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                      I predict that within the next 50 years we will see a new dynamic coming from Greece. That the modern identity is an amalgam of the neighbouring ethnicities it has swallowed up in the last 200 years and how it will seek a Balkan federation to capitalise on this "brotherhood". It will be a result of the end of the EU for Greece and interesting times ahead for the Balkans.
                      Are you serious about that RTG?

                      Let alone leading a Balkan union, they cant even govern themselves. Last time, they supported Serbians for the massacre of Bosnians. Thats basically their sole ideological capacity. Also, did you ever think how come a medieval minded non-secular and an extremely ethnocentric state can lead for an union or create a common goal for all the Balkan people? To be able to achieve that, they have to completely change their mentality and create a new secular Greece where priests only deals with religion but not politics and i don't see this happening while majority of ordinary Greeks favors priests over their politicians or their own military.

                      So, without these changes, they can only create an imaginary orthodox brotherhood with Serbs to annihilate Bosnians, nothing else. Atm, they are destined to the EU. Without EU, you can expect revolutions in Greece or a self-destruction.

                      Comment

                      • julie
                        Senior Member
                        • May 2009
                        • 3869

                        #26
                        And Macedonia for the macedonians !
                        "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

                        Comment

                        • Risto the Great
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 15658

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Onur View Post
                          Are you serious about that RTG?

                          Let alone leading a Balkan union, they cant even govern themselves. Last time, they supported Serbians for the massacre of Bosnians. Thats basically their sole ideological capacity. Also, did you ever think how come a medieval minded non-secular and an extremely ethnocentric state can lead for an union or create a common goal for all the Balkan people? To be able to achieve that, they have to completely change their mentality and create a new secular Greece where priests only deals with religion but not politics and i don't see this happening while majority of ordinary Greeks favors priests over their politicians or their own military.

                          So, without these changes, they can only create an imaginary orthodox brotherhood with Serbs to annihilate Bosnians, nothing else. Atm, they are destined to the EU. Without EU, you can expect revolutions in Greece or a self-destruction.
                          I think I am serious Onur.
                          It is the only way Greece can move forward with any chance of success. I certainly did not say it would lead this union. Turkey may well be part of it too.

                          The section of yours highlighted in bold above is a pre-requisite and would fit in that time frame in my opinion. It is what I based my assumption on.

                          Either that or they simply remain xenophobic morons that represent an anachronism of contemporary Europe.
                          Risto the Great
                          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                          Comment

                          • Onur
                            Senior Member
                            • Apr 2010
                            • 2389

                            #28
                            Actually, Turkey already proposed an economical Balkan union to all the Balkan states in 1930s but it didn't work out at that time due to upcoming WW-2. You can read about that here;




                            But for today, you can take Turkey out of the equation cuz Turkey doesn't become a member of an union where she doesn't involve in it`s administration in a strong way and this would be something unacceptable for several Balkan states. The other way around would be unacceptable for Turkish people either.

                            Already, thats why Turkey will not and cant become a member of EU because due to it`s population, location and size, she has to involve in it`s administration but neither French nor Germans accepts that. They prayed and worked for Turkey`s dissolution from Europe for a millenia. So why they should hand on it`s administration and share the power by their own will? Thats something unthinkable for theirs and ours current mentality.




                            Either that or they simply remain xenophobic morons that represent an anachronism of contemporary Europe.
                            There are prerequisites for that change. For example, they need to change their national education system and raise a generation without hate for like 20-30 years. They have to prevent their church doing sermons to poison their people`s mind against their neighbors...

                            Thats something extremely difficult for them

                            Comment

                            • TrueMacedonian
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 3810

                              #29
                              Bump. This was a fun topic to re-read.
                              Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                              Comment

                              • Onur
                                Senior Member
                                • Apr 2010
                                • 2389

                                #30
                                I recently saw a Turkish article about Thalia Dragonas, university professor from Athens. Apparently, she was a member of the committee for rewriting Greek history books to clean up false information but as you know this project has been canceled because of the opposition of Greek church. I read that she also wrote a book in 1997, named “Τι ειν η πατρίδα μας” (What's our country?). In her book, she says;
                                • Greek identity has been created by British and Germans on top of myths and modern Greeks has no relation with the ancient ones.
                                • The systematic distortion of Greek history by the state. Implementation of the false ideas about the so-called "purity" of modern Greeks through the denial and refusal to recognize the Turkish influences on modern Greeks during Ottoman era. (p. 336)
                                • About Greek school books; presenting Turks as evil as opposed to the "expansionist national policy of Greece in the 19th and 20th century. For example, land claim is always mentioned as a part of ''national law'' for Greeks but unlawful aggression on all others (p. 332).

                                  "Greek culture, cultural homogeneity and national continuity from antiquity appears to remain trapped in the myths and contradictions of nationalism in the 19th century" (p. 16). And to be able to continue to this 19th century tradition and philosophy, Greek school history books has full of myths because this fraudulent identity needs myths to survive"


                                Ofc this is something we already know for sure but i think that was quite a shock for ordinary Greeks

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X