Russian Influence in the modern Bulgarian Language

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  • Risto the Great
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 15658

    #46
    The enclitic definite article is used by Scandinavian languages as well as classical Armenian, Romanian and Albanian. Can we try to list who else puts the definite article at the end of the word (enclitic)?

    Where did this influence come from?
    Risto the Great
    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

    Comment

    • Soldier of Macedon
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 13670

      #47
      Not sure if they all have the same origin, but it is interesting that the feature exists in other languages beyond the Danube such as Romanian and Scandinavian.
      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

      Comment

      • indigen
        Senior Member
        • May 2009
        • 1558

        #48
        Re: Russian Influence in the modern Bulgarian Language

        Ilya Talev [Bulgarian-American Linguist]:
        "....It is not accurate to say that Bulgarian was "Russified". Such a
        term would imply that there was a pre-existing Bulgarian literary language,
        which later underwent a metamorphosis of "Russification". The Bulgarian
        literary language (as opposed to the living dialects) was formed under
        a very strong Russian influence....It was a voluntary process, which
        took place well before the creation of any Bulgarian state. The result
        today is that perhaps 65% of all the 150,000 words in the Bulgarian
        language are of Russian origin...."


        IT

        Ilya Talev
        Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001

        Comment

        • Risto the Great
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 15658

          #49
          Bulgarian before Russian influence ------> Macedonian language, from the Macedonians.

          Merci ;-)
          Risto the Great
          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

          Comment

          • Pelister
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 2742

            #50
            Excerps taken from "The Beginning of Written Slavic" by Horace G.Lunt

            Not entirely related, but in the general region of interest.

            The importance is that 863, despite many unanswered questions, marks the beginning of written Slavic culture
            The important thing is that all sources attribute to Cyril and/or Methodius the invention of the Slavic alphabet and to the brothers and their immediate pupils the translation of the major liturgical books thereby the establishment of a new written language
            What does it mean to be "Greek"?

            We must assume that the ambitious Slav in the Byzantine Empire would strive to be accultured - to become a Christian adept in Greek
            Surely many Greeks, like Constantine and Methodius, had grown up speaking Slavic
            Politics in Translation ?

            Constantine was able to render the sense in natural, unforced Slavic, although naturally enough, with Hellenisms (spot the anachronism)
            It was not his fault that later scribes constantly "corrected" the translation with a slavish mechanistic literalism that eventually led to a wooden word for word reproduction of the official Greek versions.
            Greek versions are curiously absent in relation to the early works of Cyril/Methodius ?

            their impact (through their Moravian mission) is recorded in Western sources as a dangerous but passing encroachment on the German bishoprics, while Greek chroniclers make no mention at all. It is the Slavs who have clung to the pious memory of the holy brothers ...
            The earliest and ONLY Greek source emerges, in the 11th century, about 200 years later. It was written by a Greek, known as Theophylactus, the Archbishop of Ohrid, 1084-1107.

            Many scholars are convinced that he merely adapted an originally Slavic biography written shortly after Kliment's death
            The possibility of late compilations, of fictions, of bad copyings and redactions, all come into play.

            Then we have this:

            The ONLY late Greek source.

            Known as the "Bulgarian Legend" it is a twenty five page Life of Kliment, a pupil of Methodius who was bishop in Macedonia, 893-916
            Why is the term "Bulgarian" used for the first time nearly two centuries later, and by a Greek clergyman ?

            It looks as though Greek clerics near Byzantium preferred to identify Christianity with Greek language and culture, and baptism with a desire for Hellenization
            one admits that the political overtones, particularly in regard to anti-Slavonic forces, are very strong indeed
            Oldest texts written in what alphabet ?

            the oldest and most archaic texts are written in Glagolitic
            Finally,

            it is only very recently that the need has been recognized to investigate separately the history of Slavonic, from the Cyrillo-Methodian Old Church Slavonic, through the Macedonian, Bulgarian Kievan and other recensions ... for the historian, the Moravian mission of Cyril and Methodius is an intriguing puzzle in diplomatic and ecclesiastical jurisdictional struggles ...
            Last edited by Pelister; 08-19-2009, 12:00 AM.

            Comment

            • AlexanderTheGay
              Junior Member
              • Sep 2009
              • 6

              #51
              Originally posted by macorules94 View Post
              I'm pretty sure Macedonia invented slavic. Not coz I think so, but I have proof.


              Jas
              Vas
              Nas

              I
              You guys
              We

              See? its all same. but in Bulgarian..

              Az
              Vas
              Nas

              Why not Vaz and Naz?

              then, ours is

              Kako
              Taka

              But in bulgarain..

              Kak
              Taka

              lol

              also,

              Tie
              Nie
              Vie

              and in Bulgarian,

              Tija
              Nie
              Vie

              Why not Vija and Nija

              So their language makes like, no sence, and they rekon they made it

              lol

              Koga?
              Toga/Togas

              but Bulgarian:

              Kogato?
              Toga

              all retared

              Ne Ima = Nema

              Ne ima = Njama

              see what I mean, makes no sence

              Looks quite the same to me

              Comment

              • Risto the Great
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 15658

                #52
                Dear Alexander, macorules94 was in fact a Greek pretending to be a dumb Macedonian. Are you related to him/her?
                Risto the Great
                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                Comment

                • AlexanderTheGay
                  Junior Member
                  • Sep 2009
                  • 6

                  #53
                  Originally posted by Slovak/Anomaly/Tomas View Post
                  Yeah, because you don't know Slovak. Argumentum ad ignorantum.

                  But lets compare Slovak, Slovenian and Macedonian Lord's prayer with OCS.

                  Отьчє нашь, (OCS)
                  Оче наш, (Mk)
                  Отьчє нашь, (OCS Moravian)
                  Otče náš, (Sk)
                  Oče naš, (Sl)

                  їжє єсі на нєбєсѣхъ,
                  кој си на небесата,
                  їжє єсі на нєбєсѣхъ,
                  ktorý si na nebesiach,
                  ki si v nebesih,

                  да свѧтітъ сѧ їмѧ Твоє,
                  да се свети името Твое;
                  свѧті сѧ їмѧ Твоє,
                  posväť sa meno tvoje,
                  posvečeno bodi tvoje ime.

                  да прідєтъ цѣсарьствіє Твоє,
                  да дојде царството Твое;
                  пріді цѣсарьство Твоє,
                  príď kráľovstvo tvoje,
                  Pridi k nam tvoje kraljestvo,

                  да бѫдєтъ волѣ Твоѣ
                  да биде волјата Твоја
                  бѫді волѣ Твоѣ
                  buď vôľa tvoja,
                  zgodi se tvoja volja,

                  ѣко на нєбєсє ї на зємлі;
                  како на небото, така и на земјата.
                  ѣко на нєбєсє ї на зємі;
                  ako v nebi, tak i na zemi.
                  kakor v nebesih tako na zemlji.

                  хлѣбъ нашь насѫштьнъ даждь намъ дьньсь,
                  Лебот наш насушен дај ни го денес,
                  хлѣбъ нашь вьшьдѣіші дазь намъ дьньсь,
                  Chlieb náš každodenný daj nám dnes
                  Daj nam danes naš vsakdanji kruh

                  ї оставі намъ длъгъи нашѧ
                  и прости ни ги долговите наши,
                  ї отъпѹсті намъ грѣхъи нашѧ
                  a odpusť nám naše viny,
                  in odpusti nam naše dolge,

                  ѣкожє ї мъи оставлѣємъ длъжьнікомъ нашімъ;
                  како што им ги проштаваме и ние на нашите должници.
                  ѣкожє ї мъи отъпѹшчаємъ грєшьнікъмъ нашімъ;
                  ako i my odpúšťame svojim vinníkom.
                  kakor tudi mi odpuščamo svojim dolžnikom,

                  ї нє въвєді насъ въ їскоушєніє,
                  И не не воведи во искушение
                  ї нє въвєді насъ въ їскоушєніє,
                  A neuveď nás do pokušenia,
                  in ne vpelji nas v skušnjavo,

                  нъ їзбаві нъи отъ лѫкаваєго;
                  но избави не од лукавиот,
                  нъ їзбаві нъи отъ нєпріѣзні;
                  ale zbav nás Zlého.
                  temveč reši nas hudega.

                  ѣко твоє єстъ цѣсарьствіє ї сіла ї слава въ вѣкъі.
                  зашто Твое е царството и силата и славата во сите векови.
                  ѣко твоє єстъ цѣсарьство ї моць ї слава въ вѣкъі.
                  Lebo tvoje je kráľovstvo, moc i sláva teraz i vždycky i na veky vekov.
                  /

                  Амінь.
                  Амин.
                  Амінь.
                  Amen.
                  Amen.


                  The above is the original OCS similar more to Macedonian than to the OCS mixed with Moravian. The latter is more similar to Slovak and Slovene. Slovak would be even more similar because some words were changed during various reforms, for example nepriazeň (нєпріѣзнь) is now Zlé; vezdajší (вьшьдѣіші) is každodenný; cisárstvo (цѣсарьство) is kráľovstvo; hriech, hrešnik (грѣхъ, грєшьнік) is vina, vinník. Mostly synonyms.

                  As I understand from your previous posts OCS is a macedonian language, but isn't it strange that it contains some strange letters - ь,ч,ѣ,ъ and others.

                  Comment

                  • AlexanderTheGay
                    Junior Member
                    • Sep 2009
                    • 6

                    #54
                    Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                    Dear Alexander, macorules94 was in fact a Greek pretending to be a dumb Macedonian. Are you related to him/her?
                    Sorry, no relation.

                    Comment

                    • Risto the Great
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 15658

                      #55
                      Originally posted by AlexanderTheGay View Post
                      As I understand from your previous posts OCS is a macedonian language, but isn't it strange that it contains some strange letters - ь,ч,ѣ,ъ and others.
                      ATGay, your English appears to be functional.
                      Can you understand Olde English of circa 1000 AD?
                      Risto the Great
                      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                      Comment

                      • AlexanderTheGay
                        Junior Member
                        • Sep 2009
                        • 6

                        #56
                        Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                        ATGay, your English appears to be functional.
                        Can you understand Olde English of circa 1000 AD?
                        I bet you can.

                        Comment

                        • Risto the Great
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 15658

                          #57
                          ATGay, I asked a question based on sound logical arguments and you gave me that insipid answer. It was a stupid answer from a stupid person with a stupid name. Why?
                          Risto the Great
                          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                          Comment

                          • AlexanderTheGay
                            Junior Member
                            • Sep 2009
                            • 6

                            #58
                            Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                            ATGay, I asked a question based on sound logical arguments and you gave me that insipid answer. It was a stupid answer from a stupid person with a stupid name. Why?
                            Maybe you are right. This name is really stupid.

                            Comment

                            • makedonin
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 1668

                              #59
                              Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                              Why?
                              Cause shit happens, or rather he spreads it arround.
                              To enquire after the impression behind an idea is the way to remove disputes concerning nature and reality.

                              Comment

                              • Risto the Great
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 15658

                                #60
                                Originally posted by AlexanderTheGay View Post
                                Maybe you are right. This name is really stupid.
                                Why not AsparukTheGreat then?
                                Risto the Great
                                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                                Comment

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