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  • drle
    Junior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 39

    #46
    Originally posted by Traveller View Post
    WHY THEN DIDNT THE GOVERMENT HARMED THE REST OF NTOPIOI? Can you answer? I''l tell you. Because the rest were pro goverment. Ntopioi took their land, houses when they left. Ntopioi who were loyal to the king and the right party. People who fought against their brothers and relatives in an IDEOLOGICAL BASIS not racial.That's why they vote even today for Karamanlis, your nemesis.
    I'll tell you why, its because they are still scared. For a so called democratic country you have placed the fear of God into them for they are scared they might lose their jobs for being something else. Don't tell me traveller I know all about it.

    Being in Ovcarani/Meliti earlier this year at the panagir and watching the Greek Media take every little detail. They turned an ant hill into everest and it was disgusting. The Greeks should be ashamed of themselves. What do the Macedonian people of Lerin, Kostur or Voden have to do to live a normal life without fear constantly following them?

    Comment

    • Giorikas
      Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 316

      #47
      Originally posted by drle View Post
      I'll tell you why, its because they are still scared. For a so called democratic country you have placed the fear of God into them for they are scared they might lose their jobs for being something else. Don't tell me traveller I know all about it.

      Being in Ovcarani/Meliti earlier this year at the panagir and watching the Greek Media take every little detail. They turned an ant hill into everest and it was disgusting. The Greeks should be ashamed of themselves. What do the Macedonian people of Lerin, Kostur or Voden have to do to live a normal life without fear constantly following them?
      Traveller has a point though. If Greeks were killing everybody speaking Macedonian, then there wouldn't be a large number of refugees. They would have been killed. Greeks were fighting Turks, Italians, Germans, and each other in a relative short period of time and destroying those unarmed civilians speaking Macedonian would be technically speaking not that much of a problem if that is what they wanted. Greeks certainly had less difficulties killing their fellow Greeks. We know that Greeks were very efficient doing that to Chams too for example.
      How does that fit in with huge number of refugees who were expelled or fled? On top of that I hear claims about a huge number of 'underground' Macedonians being present in Greece and being seriously oppressed and scared shitless to open their mouths or let alone speak their native language. So these were neither killed or expelled. Doesn't that that strike you as odd?
      Decide. What happened? You can't have it both ways, let alone 3. We're looking at the big picture here so don't tell me that all of the above is possible.
      Can somebody please provide me with credible numbers from a neutral source in stead of the usual unsubstantiated claims which you expect the neutral reader to be convinced of. How many were there, how many got killed, how many fled, and how many stayed under occupation.

      Comment

      • GREEKoccupiedMacedonian
        Banned
        • Sep 2008
        • 47

        #48
        Traveller hit the nail on the head.
        The communist Macedonians left Greece and the Ntopioi Macedonians remained as they were loyal to the Royalists. They fought against each other for ideological differences.
        One brother chose the winning team and the other brother the losing team.
        Thats why we have brother against brother, one fled and the other remained taking his property.
        The exiled brother now calls his Ntopio brother a Grkoman.

        Comment

        • Risto the Great
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 15658

          #49
          Pro Government?
          Do any of you Greek tikvi actually believe the Macedonian brother who was pro-government was a perfect Greek? He sold his own family members for a better economic position. This is acceptable in the Greek world. But for Macedonians, it is a permanent scar and a low act worthy of contempt. We call these people Grkomani which really means a Macedonian who believes the Greek identity is worth something more than his real identity. Disgusting.
          Risto the Great
          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

          Comment

          • El Bre
            Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 713

            #50
            Originally posted by GREEKoccupiedMacedonian View Post
            Traveller hit the nail on the head.
            The communist Macedonians left Greece and the Ntopioi Macedonians remained as they were loyal to the Royalists. They fought against each other for ideological differences.
            One brother chose the winning team and the other brother the losing team.
            Thats why we have brother against brother, one fled and the other remained taking his property.
            The exiled brother now calls his Ntopio brother a Grkoman.
            HAHAHAHA!!!! One day the royalist brother didn't have a pot to piss in, the next day his anti-monarchofascist brother was in jail, and the royalist brother had 3 stores in Lerin. HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!
            Last edited by El Bre; 09-15-2008, 07:07 AM.

            Comment

            • GREEKoccupiedMacedonian
              Banned
              • Sep 2008
              • 47

              #51
              The communist brother wasn't laughing.

              Comment

              • El Bre
                Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 713

                #52
                He is now. He ended up in Hungary, became an engineer, and today he spends his days by the beach in Florida as the Macedonian he always was. This was never about communism cowboy and if you think it was, your deluding yourself.

                Comment

                • GREEKoccupiedMacedonian
                  Banned
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 47

                  #53
                  Good on him.
                  How long has it been since he has visited Greece?

                  Comment

                  • drle
                    Junior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 39

                    #54
                    Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                    Pro Government?
                    Do any of you Greek tikvi actually believe the Macedonian brother who was pro-government was a perfect Greek? He sold his own family members for a better economic position. This is acceptable in the Greek world. But for Macedonians, it is a permanent scar and a low act worthy of contempt. We call these people Grkomani which really means a Macedonian who believes the Greek identity is worth something more than his real identity. Disgusting.
                    And that's why every person in the village absolutely hates these people and call them shpijoni. I know for an absolute fact that in Armenoro there is one....

                    Nobody can stand that prick....and why? Becuase he sold his soul to the devil and he exposed his own people to gain financially. Absolute f**ken arsehole. Those people aren't worth spitting on.

                    You know what they say in Lerin, "Ke mu izvaam ocite na Prosfiga i na Shpijonite pret da mu izvaam na kuche...." and after hearing all these atrocities that occurred to our people you'd understand why!!!!

                    Comment

                    • MapleLeaf1
                      Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 114

                      #55
                      Ke mu izvaam ocite na Prosfiga i na Shpijonite pret da mu izvaam na kuche....

                      That seems the right order, a dog, a grkoman, and a Pravoslav turchine

                      Comment

                      • Sweet Sixteen
                        Banned
                        • Jan 2014
                        • 203

                        #56
                        This is an American film relevant to the discussion of previous 6 pages, taking the anti-communist side. I haven't watched it (it is generally decently made, but I don't know if it is good). It's in English language (with Greek subtitles). It's based on the book (and efforts) of Nikos Gatzoyiannis who tries to pay a tribute to his executed mother Eleni Gatzoyianni and aunt Alexo and their efforts to stop his "abduction".

                        The events took place in the village Lias (in Thesprotia, Epirus) in 1948. The Greek socialist government did not allow the film to be shot in Greece (it's shot in Spain instead). The film takes a clear (right-wing) stance against the 1982 pardoning of exiled communists and their return to Greece and is partly a revenge film where the hero (played by John Malkovich) tries to find the pardoned communist culprit and murder him!

                        You should be warned that Ronald Reagan found this film very inspiring!


                        "ΕΛΕΝΗ" (ΓΚΑΤΖΟΓΙΑΝΝΗ- Ολόκληρη η ταινία) - YouTube
                        Last edited by Sweet Sixteen; 03-02-2014, 08:24 AM.

                        Comment

                        • George S.
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2009
                          • 10116

                          #57
                          ss do you think the exiled child ,exodus of children did happen.Do you think they should have been allowed back & to have access to their property.?
                          "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                          GOTSE DELCEV

                          Comment

                          • Sweet Sixteen
                            Banned
                            • Jan 2014
                            • 203

                            #58
                            Originally posted by George S. View Post
                            ss do you think the exiled child ,exodus of children did happen.Do you think they should have been allowed back & to have access to their property.?
                            I don't think anybody denies the children's exodus. As far as I know, the "children" (that had grown up meanwhile) started returning right afterwards, as there was nothing against them. There was a mass return in the early 60s.
                            Those who were allowed to return in 1982 were "parents" with various serious accusations against them.

                            I think there's a legal process about the properties. I heard an extended debate where a Greek lawyer said these people had more than a chance. I don't have an opinion based on legal/technical arguments as he does. Yet, based on political/moral arguments I would say NO. This may be unconstitutional but every abandoned property (for more than 10 years) should be confiscated and redistributed. Greece is full of abandoned properties even in the middle of city centres.

                            ---

                            Comment

                            • vicsinad
                              Senior Member
                              • May 2011
                              • 2337

                              #59
                              What is meant by abandoned? Voluntarily? Forcefully? Haven't been back in "x" years?

                              When it comes to lands and homes, they should be given to the state if, and only if, the owners or people who have title cannot be found through a legitimate search.

                              Comment

                              • Sweet Sixteen
                                Banned
                                • Jan 2014
                                • 203

                                #60
                                Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
                                What is meant by abandoned? Voluntarily? Forcefully? Haven't been back in "x" years?
                                Don't worry. That's my opinion, not the greek law. I was under the impression that regarding people who lost their citizenship, their properties passed to the legal inheritors (closest relatives).

                                Comment

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