Macedonia and Bulgaria: Political Relations

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  • sf.
    Member
    • Jan 2010
    • 387

    Pusto means empty but in this context it often means damned (or doomed), origin: something that has been laid waste / condemned to be barren.

    The actual word for damned is proklet(o).
    Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without integrity is dangerous and dreadful. - Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)

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    • Soldier of Macedon
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 13670

      Prolet, did you notice what happens when a 'k' is included after the 'o' in your username? Lol.....
      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

      Comment

      • Prolet
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2009
        • 5241

        Yeah i did lets not go that path lol

        Here is an example, from Muharem Serbezovski

        YouTube - Muharem Serbezovski - Prokleta je Amerika
        МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

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        • Komita
          Member
          • May 2009
          • 243

          Originally posted by Makedonetz View Post
          Onur looks like those Bulgars adopted their Bratko Serbia motto Chetnik.

          Ugly Mother f*cker!



          even more Uglier!
          Some of you are really amazing, the whole chetnik dresscode with beard and the chetnik movement started in Macedonia and is copied from the "komiti" movement.
          Those "bulgarian" komitas from the picture is most probably macedonians that the vmro-bnd use for their propaganda.
          Those bulgarians posters are correct and I support them when I say that turkey doesnt belong to europe nor does it's people.
          Слава му на Бога за се

          Comment

          • Soldier of Macedon
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 13670

            Originally posted by Komita
            Some of you are really amazing, the whole chetnik dresscode with beard and the chetnik movement started in Macedonia and is copied from the "komiti" movement.
            Komita, that's an interesting point you make, can you confirm it with any references?
            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

            Comment

            • Big Bad Sven
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2009
              • 1528

              Originally posted by Komita View Post
              Some of you are really amazing, the whole chetnik dresscode with beard and the chetnik movement started in Macedonia and is copied from the "komiti" movement.
              Those "bulgarian" komitas from the picture is most probably macedonians that the vmro-bnd use for their propaganda.
              Those bulgarians posters are correct and I support them when I say that turkey doesnt belong to europe nor does it's people.
              The chetniks started out in macedonia, or "old serbia" as they call it, in a effort to steal as much macedonian land and people into their glorious new state. A bit baffling that you find it such a great fact that the chetniks started in southern "serbia/old serbia". The "macedonian chetniks" had great heroes like the srboman Jovan Babunski who thought against Delcevs IMRO and thought for mighty serbia. The chetniks where very good people during the first yugoslavia ensuring the srbonization was quick and easy

              Its debateable whether turkey belongs in the EU or not, but those maps/propaganda are stupid. Turkey is not looking to islamasize the balkan population and force all the balkan women to where viels. Turkey is not looking to start a "muslim empire" in the balkans. Nor is it even financing or manipulating the muslims in the balkans.

              This is classic serbian, "greek" and bulgarian propaganda, to scare people of the evil muslims in Turkey. The truth is the modern turk is secular, and that its not the turks who support/finance the whabi's in the balkans or want a muslim empire, its the arabs.

              You just fell for an out dated bit of propaganda, hook line and (serbian) sinker.

              Cheers
              Last edited by Big Bad Sven; 05-04-2010, 05:54 AM.

              Comment

              • Onur
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2010
                • 2389

                Originally posted by Komita View Post
                Those bulgarians posters are correct and I support them when I say that turkey doesnt belong to europe nor does it's people.

                Those Bulgarian posters are pure bullshit. The maps which shows Bulgaria as a part of Turkey is really ridicules. I have no intention to go their stinkin communist look-a-like country again and i don't wanna see people like the Mr. Karakacan in Turkey either but i agree to them and you on the EU issue. Like our geographical location, Turkey have cultural elements from both Europe and Asia like our former state, Ottoman Empire had b4. This harmony of Europe and Asia still continues in Turkey.

                Whether you like it or not, Turkey shaped the world of Europe for 600+ years but i agree that we definitely not belong to a system like "European Union" because It`s against our very nature. We never let any foreigner interfere our country`s future throughout history and we never will, especially NOT the ignorant Bulgarian hicks with a name of a dog.



                Originally posted by Big Bad Sven View Post
                Its debateable whether turkey belongs in the EU or not, but those maps/propaganda are stupid. Turkey is not looking to islamasize the balkan population and force all the balkan women to where viels. Turkey is not looking to start a "muslim empire" in the balkans. Nor is it even financing or manipulating the muslims in the balkans.

                This is classic serbian, "greek" and bulgarian propaganda, to scare people of the evil muslims in Turkey. The truth is the modern turk is secular, and that its not the turks who support/finance the whabi's in the balkans or want a muslim empire, its the arabs.

                You just fell for an out dated bit of propaganda, hook line and (serbian) sinker.


                This is the truth or otherwise wahabi Arabs wouldn't try to do same in Turkey. They also try to manipulate our religious community too like in Balkans. If Turkey would have an intention to see whole Balkans as Muslims you can be sure that we could do this in 500+ years, so Mr. Komita would pray to Allah now and Bulgarian Karakachanov would be circumcised and in Mecca for his pilgrimage atm. Am I wrong????



                Also you know, 170.000 Turkish people migrated to Turkey from Macedonia at 1950s. I am quite sure, if these people would stay at their homeland, you probably wouldn't have the problem with pro-Arab Albanian community today because they wouldn't have any right about Muslim community or the mosques made by Turks.




                This is the people i am talking about;


                YouTube - Makedonsko devojce od Ä°zmir Karsiyaka
                Last edited by Onur; 05-04-2010, 01:21 PM.

                Comment

                • Soldier of Macedon
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 13670

                  Now let's find a group of ethnic Albanians that feel the same about Macedonia as do these guys, and that would sing Makedonsko Devojce in such a way. Nice video Onur.
                  In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                  Comment

                  • Onur
                    Senior Member
                    • Apr 2010
                    • 2389

                    Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                    Now let's find a group of ethnic Albanians that feel the same about Macedonia as do these guys, and that would sing Makedonsko Devojce in such a way. Nice video Onur.

                    Bill77 linked this video here 2 days ago;

                    http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=50613#post50613



                    and i gotta remind you that all the people in this video born in Turkey and maybe they`ve never been in Macedonia b4 but their parents came from there and they teach Macedonian language and these songs to them.

                    Comment

                    • Soldier of Macedon
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 13670

                      Are they Turks, Macedonian Muslims, or a combination of both?
                      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                      Comment

                      • Onur
                        Senior Member
                        • Apr 2010
                        • 2389

                        Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                        Are they Turks, Macedonian Muslims, or a combination of both?

                        This may come weird to you but we never ask this question to each other here because its not that important for us but probably a combination of both, i don't know.

                        I am quite sure that if you ask this question to a Turkish speaking individual in Macedonia today, most of them will respond you like this. Maybe he can say that he is both Macedonian and Turk.

                        For example, most of my friend`s parents are Bosnia, Macedonia or Bulgaria immigrants and i have never even thought about asking them how much of a Bosnian or Turk they are. It doesn't matter for me and for most of people here.
                        Last edited by Onur; 05-04-2010, 08:38 AM.

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                        • Bill77
                          Senior Member
                          • Oct 2009
                          • 4545

                          Originally posted by Onur View Post
                          This may come weird to you but we never ask this question to each other here because its not that important for us but probably a combination of both, i don't know.

                          I am quite sure that if you ask this question to a Turkish speaking individual in Macedonia today, most of them will respond you like this. Maybe he can say that he is both Macedonian and Turk.
                          would it be corect to say they are, Ethnic - Macedonians, Nationality - Turkish.? Where the Turks in Macedonia would be the oposite.
                          http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

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                          • Big Bad Sven
                            Senior Member
                            • Jan 2009
                            • 1528

                            Originally posted by Bill77 View Post
                            would it be corect to say they are, Ethnic - Macedonians, Nationality - Turkish.? Where the Turks in Macedonia would be the oposite.
                            After the second balkan war a lot of muslim people such as Albanians, bosniaks and macedonian muslims were expelled to Turkey, as they where classified as "turks" - mainly because of their religion.

                            I also think that a lot of the "turks" that where expelled from aegean macedonia and exchanged with "greeks" in the 1920's where actually macedonian muslims as well.

                            There are many people who are turkish by nationality but have bosniak blood and ancestory. Im sure there are many who where macedonian muslims my ancestory/blood.

                            Comment

                            • Onur
                              Senior Member
                              • Apr 2010
                              • 2389

                              Originally posted by Bill77 View Post
                              would it be corect to say they are, Ethnic - Macedonians, Nationality - Turkish.? Where the Turks in Macedonia would be the oposite.

                              We live here with immigrants from whole Balkans here who came at different periods of time. Also we live together here, not in ghettos and marry each other. It`s not that possible to reach a valid point by analyzing someone`s ethnicity here in Turkey. This kind of stuff belongs to western Europe ideas, not to us. It`s also questionable how successful western nations are with this racial theory. We will see how successful they are if EU collapses economically. For me, this is against the human nature.


                              Most of people doesn't even think about expressing their ethnicity here. Some few 1000s Kurds trying to do that for some time and by even using the methods of terrorism but they fail to achieve anything among 10 million Kurds in Turkey who lives at eastern Anatolia.

                              Historically, Turkey was the melting point for the racial nonsense and still continues to be but this doesn't mean that we forget who we are. There are 100s of associations here but people busy with Macedonian cuisine, language, habits and culture there, not with stupid racial things. This is same for Bosnian associations too.

                              For example, i know few Bosnia immigrants who came to Turkey at Bosnian war, ~1992 and i don't consider them less Turks than me anymore at 2010. Maybe they got no Turkish blood in their veins but it doesn't matter because its the ideas which makes us Turk, not our blood. These Bosnians also doesn't see us as strangers and its our duty to not let them feel as foreigners here. Thats why you never heard Bosnian or any other immigrant`s expression of disturbance in Turkey even tough 100.000s of Bosnians came here at ~1992.


                              I saw this article about the lives of Georgian immigrants in Turkey who has been expelled by Russians 100+ years ago;
                              Turkey: Caucasus Groups Put Aside Conflict to Live as Turks
                              In Inegol, a town of about 151,000 near the Sea of Marmara known for its furniture and its meatballs, one ethnic Georgian explains. "Our ancestors come from all different places in the Caucasus, but what we have in common is that we are Turks," says Inegol Deputy Mayor Yousef Sen. "Here, we are brothers under that nationality."
                              "Nobody ever bothers us and asks 'Why do you speak Abkhazian or Georgian?'" Says Nadim Bayram, the vice-president of Inegol's Georgian Culture Association: "We have become relatives . . .".

                              http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/civilsociety/articles/eav032610.shtml

                              Already, i think this is the only proper way to keep a nation together in Balkans and Anatolia, otherwise you only face with problems about certain groups with different ethnicity. Racial ideas of the western world doesn't work here. Greece tried to achieve this and it caused the suffering of millions(albanians, macedonians, bulgarians, turks and even muslim greeks too) and you see the result today. You decide how much successful they were.



                              So, i just prefer to call Turkish speaking people at Skopje as a part of the Macedonian nation and the ones who sings in video as a part of Turkish nation.
                              Last edited by Onur; 05-05-2010, 09:37 AM.

                              Comment

                              • Onur
                                Senior Member
                                • Apr 2010
                                • 2389

                                Originally posted by Big Bad Sven View Post
                                After the second balkan war a lot of muslim people such as Albanians, bosniaks and macedonian muslims were expelled to Turkey, as they where classified as "turks" - mainly because of their religion.

                                I also think that a lot of the "turks" that where expelled from aegean macedonia and exchanged with "greeks" in the 1920's where actually macedonian muslims as well.

                                There are many people who are turkish by nationality but have bosniak blood and ancestory. Im sure there are many who where macedonian muslims my ancestory/blood.

                                Yes, thats what i am talking about. This is the truth and Greece even send some Muslim Greeks from Crete to Turkey at 1924.

                                Thats why you can never achieve anything or reach a valid point by questioning people`s race here. We are happy with this and don't wanna involve racial stuff which imposed to us from western world. We are very well aware that they use and abuse this to divide people but on the other hand, we prefer to unite them.

                                Maybe thats why some European racists doesn't like us, probably they see us as an abominations of interracial marriage in their sick minds while living in a dream of being pure breeds for themselves, i dunno...
                                Last edited by Onur; 05-04-2010, 10:35 AM.

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