Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

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  • Carlin
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2011
    • 3332





    URL:
    Macedonia says it is ready to accelerate accession talks to join the European Union after agreeing with Greece on a name change to end a decades-long dispute.


    With Name Change Out Of The Way, Macedonia Looks To Start EU Talks Soon

    Macedonia says it is ready to accelerate accession talks to join the European Union after agreeing with Greece on a name change to end a decades-long dispute.

    Speaking in Vienna on January 30 after meeting with Austrian Chancellor Sebastian Kurz, Prime Minister Zoran Zaev told reporters that Macedonia should soon be able to show "progress in the area of the rule of law and starting judicial reforms," as well as the fight against corruption and organized crime.

    "We hope that by June we will have presented strong arguments to the European Council for getting a date for opening accession negotiations," Zaev said.

    "We believe in European values, more so than some people in member states," Zaev added.

    Greek lawmakers on January 25 narrowly approved the historic deal, which had already been ratified by Macedonia's parliament.

    Under the agreement, signed last year by Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras and Zaev, Macedonia will change its name to the Republic of North Macedonia.

    For almost three decades, Athens had opposed the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) joining the EU and NATO, arguing that the country's name implied territorial ambitions on Greece's own northern province of the same name.

    'Firm Determination'

    Kurz, who has pushed for the bloc to accept members from the former Yugoslavia, noted that the Balkans were a vital part of Europe, and therefore should be for the EU as well.

    "Austria will continue to stand alongside Macedonia and other Western Balkan countries. We want to support this region. We want, first of all, this region to become a part of the European Union, because the European Union will be comprehensive in geographical terms only after all Western Balkan states will become its members," Kurz said.

    "This depends on conditions that must be fulfilled and progress that must be made, but I see firm determination [from Macedonia]," Kurz added.

    The European Union presidency, currently held by Romania, said after a meeting between Macedonian and Romanian diplomats in Bucharest on January 28 that it also supported Macedonia's membership bid.

    Romanian European Affairs Minister George Ciamba said that he wants Macedonia to open negotiations with the bloc in June at a meeting of EU ministers.
    Last edited by Carlin; 01-31-2019, 01:46 AM.

    Comment

    • Pelagonija
      Member
      • Mar 2017
      • 533



      Welcome to Northern Macedonia? Or is it North Macedonia?

      Comment

      • Carlin
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2011
        • 3332

        Government justifies Zaev for not yet using name ‘North Macedonia’

        Zaev said that he negotiated with Greece without the ethnic identity of Macedonians who speak Macedonian and have their own tradition and history being disputed.

        ΤοΒΗΜΑ Team

        URL:
        Zaev said that he negotiated with Greece without the ethnic identity of Macedonians who speak Macedonian and have their own tradition and history being disputed.


        Prime Minister Zoran Zaev’s frequent references to his country as Macedonia instead of North Macedonia, as provided in the recently approved Prespa Agreement, has stirred concern among the many critics of the agreement in Greece.

        “With the Prespa Agreement, Greece accepted the right of self-identification and that no one any longer can deny our right to be Macedonians who speak the Macedonian language in this land,” Zaev said in an interview with a Bosnian television station.

        That and other similar comments by Zaev have fueled criticism that the agreement permits Skopje to interpret it as it sees fit.

        Macedonian language, ethnicity issue

        Zaev said that he negotiated with Greece without the ethnic identity of Macedonians who speak Macedonian and have their own tradition and history being disputed. He said he was proud that he leads a country “for which our forbears fought and no one can deny that”.

        In the note verbale it sent to Athens after amending its Constitution, Skopje said that the constitutional amendments passed by parliament – which include the country’s new name – will come into effect only after the Greek Parliament ratifies the protocol approving the country’s admission to Nato as Republic of North Macedonia.

        Greek government spokesman Dimitris Tzanakopoulos stated that formally Zaev is for the time being within his rights in calling his country plain Macedonia.

        US, EU support crucial

        The Nato Protocol will be approved by the Greek Parliament in the next few days. The German Bundestag yesterday became the first legislature of a Nato member-state to ratify the protocol.

        Zaev stressed that the Prespa Agreement was the result of persistent efforts by both countries with great support from the US and the EU.

        He attributed Russia’s vehement opposition to the agreement to the fact that Moscow does not want his country to become a Nato member.

        “We want a good relationship with Russia. We understand its stance, but above all is the fact that 80 percent of Macedonians want the country to become a member of Nato and that must be respected,” he said.

        Athens expects ‘good will’ from Zaev

        “Formally, Zoran Zaev has the right to use the name Macedonia and not North Macedonia,” the Greek government spokesman told journalists.

        A large segment of the Greek press views the continued use of plain Macedonia as evidence that Skopje is liable to purposely misinterpret the terms of the Prespa Accord.

        Tzanakopoulos said he is absolutely convinced that Zaev “will exhibit good will as he has in the past”.

        He underlined that this is a transitional period. “Day by day everyone in Greece and mainly in North Macedonia will comply with the provisions of the Prespa Agreement and what it mandates.”

        Comment

        • Risto the Great
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 15658

          Zaev is a lion! Never a backward step from this man's man.
          Risto the Great
          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

          Comment

          • Phoenix
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2008
            • 4671

            It’s so funny to hear from the greeks that they expect “good will” from the Macedonian side in honouring the agreement...lol

            Zaev is a proven compulsive liar...surely a leopard doesn’t change its spots?

            Comment

            • Risto the Great
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 15658

              Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
              It’s so funny to hear from the greeks that they expect “good will” from the Macedonian side in honouring the agreement...lol
              They don't need goodwill from Macedonia. They have Macedonia bent over and tied up. All they have to do now is decide whether they want to rape Macedonia for enjoyment or punishment or both.
              Risto the Great
              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

              Comment

              • Vangelovski
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 8531

                Wasn't he calling Macedonia "this land"?

                I don't know if Zaev read the agreement before he signed it, but he is now a "Macedonian/Citizen of the Republic of North Macedonia". The words following the slash are not optional, they are integral to the name of the people.

                Conversely, if he thinks he's some sort of genius and all he did was negotiate the 'nationality/citizenship' of the state and not the ethnicity of the people, then he's in for a rude shock. The agreement is broad and vague enough to incorporate both. Our own identity is built on the premise that our nationality/citizenship and ethnicity are one and the same. Greece will insist on the term "Macedonian/Citizen of the Republic of North Macedonia" and the EU will enforce it.

                Another tactical failure in the so-called "great game" being "played" by our "eminent statesmen". In reality, Timmy just lost another marble and he's got snot running down his nose.
                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                Comment

                • Gocka
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2012
                  • 2306

                  I don't think Zaev is naive or ignorant about what the prespa agreement demands of him and Macedonia. I think a a good portion of the Macedonian people are naive and ignorant. Because of that he has to play a balancing act for as long as he can. He can't do it forever. At some point he will have to stop saying Macedonia and people will notice.

                  I actually have hope. This whole circus doesn't have a snowflake's chance in hell of being successfully implemented and maintained. It's too broad and overreaching. Even our pathetic lot will eventually realize that. Nothing like this has ever been attempted, do we really believe Macedonians and Greeks of all people can accomplish this?

                  This is the honeymoon period, where both parties keep patting themselves on the back. When the reality of it all sets in they will be back to square one in no time.

                  The only question for me is what happens when it all unravels.

                  Comment

                  • Phoenix
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2008
                    • 4671

                    Originally posted by Gocka View Post
                    ...The only question for me is what happens when it all unravels.
                    On one hand you have the greeks who believe that they have an ironclad agreement and expect it to be followed to the letter...on the other hand you have the Macedonians who are to be socially reengineered by said agreement into a totally different organism and that this will miraculously materialise 7 days after the greek parliament ratifies Macedonia's NATO membership process...

                    What could possibly go wrong............................................. ................?

                    Comment

                    • Soldier of Macedon
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 13670

                      So many idiot politicians and journalists from the West keep suggesting that this will bring stability to the Balkans, when it may have the opposite effect, if there are enough people in Macedonia whose integrity will be slapped into action when this demeaning set of circumstances comes to a full realisation.
                      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                      Comment

                      • Vangelovski
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 8531

                        Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                        So many idiot politicians and journalists from the West keep suggesting that this will bring stability to the Balkans, when it may have the opposite effect, if there are enough people in Macedonia whose integrity will be slapped into action when this demeaning set of circumstances comes to a full realisation.
                        Like the Interim Accord and Framework Agreement before it brought stability..
                        If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                        The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                        Comment

                        • Risto the Great
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 15658

                          Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                          if there are enough people in Macedonia whose integrity will be slapped into action when this demeaning set of circumstances comes to a full realisation.
                          I know him.
                          Risto the Great
                          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                          Comment

                          • YuriB
                            Junior Member
                            • Jan 2019
                            • 54

                            A potentially destabilizing factor is the "Joint Inter-Disciplinary Committee of Experts on historic, archaeological and educational matters". I'm expecting that, depending on how badly the Greek government is doing in the polls, they will be asking the Macedonian side to make further concessions. Probably, as a means to divert the masses away from incompetence/corruption/scandals..
                            Regards,
                            A Greek supporting self-determination of Macedonians!

                            Comment

                            • Gocka
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2012
                              • 2306

                              Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
                              On one hand you have the greeks who believe that they have an ironclad agreement and expect it to be followed to the letter...on the other hand you have the Macedonians who are to be socially reengineered by said agreement into a totally different organism and that this will miraculously materialise 7 days after the greek parliament ratifies Macedonia's NATO membership process...

                              What could possibly go wrong............................................. ................?

                              Exactly.

                              Lets put aside the resentment we feel for a second and look at this rationally.

                              This agreement requires the whole country to change within a short period of time. Think about how much turmoil even a handful of individuals can cause. A single professor refusing to teach the new curriculum, a single business refusing to change its packaging or labels, a single public officials refusing to refer to the country by its new name. What about even individual small business owners and citizens who fly the old flag or use our rightful name.

                              What is the government of NMK going to do to enforce these changes domestically? Throw people in jail? Even people who are for a name change probably can't stomach their friends and family being beaten or thrown in prison for calling themselves Macedonians.

                              Yugoslavia had 50+ to make everyone Yugoslavs and they never convinced a majority of it. One generation after its demise and "Yugoslavians" are gone as an ethnic group. Even if this new endeavor is to succeed, it will take a generation or two of none stop brainwashing to make it happen.

                              What happens if administrations change? This has a million ways it can fail. So we shouldn't give up hope just yet.

                              This is so easy to fight against because it is so overt and unavoidable. For once we have s battle that even a handful of people can fight and win. Like I said before this is the honeymoon phase. Both parties are willing to let a lot of things go for now. What happens in a year or two?

                              The breakdown point is going to be when the NMK government is faced with its first few cases of dissent. This is agreement is so absurd that it is unenforceable other than through barbaric means.

                              Either the NMK government cracks down hard or the Greek government deems the agreement broken. Either way it all breaks down.

                              To all those Macedonians who might be reading along, don't give up, this is easy to fix. Just refuse to play along and it will all collapse.
                              Last edited by Gocka; 02-02-2019, 12:27 AM.

                              Comment

                              • Solun
                                Member
                                • Sep 2012
                                • 166

                                Originally posted by YuriB View Post
                                A potentially destabilizing factor is the "Joint Inter-Disciplinary Committee of Experts on historic, archaeological and educational matters". I'm expecting that, depending on how badly the Greek government is doing in the polls, they will be asking the Macedonian side to make further concessions. Probably, as a means to divert the masses away from incompetence/corruption/scandals..
                                I don't see how this could be a problem. Zaev will be happy to agree to anything

                                Comment

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