Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

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  • Daniel the Great
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2009
    • 1084

    Nimetz no proposal just ideas.

    I don’t bring new proposal, but I have smart ideas which will move name talks forward.
    I wonder what ideas Nimetz is talking about.





    ________________________
    Ѓорѓи Пулевски: (1817-1895)
    I am not Bulgarian nor Serb nor Greek but simply MACEDONIAN.

    Comment

    • Prolet
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2009
      • 5241

      Daniel The Great,

      Martin Protoger is saying they wont change the name.

      ПРОТОЃЕР:

      ВМРО-ДПМНЕ нема да прифати промена на името!

      Со каков став ќе го пречекаме Нимиц на 23 февруари?

      - Високо ги цениме напорите на медијаторот Нимиц и го поддржуваме процесот во ООН за спорот што го наметна Грција. Нашиот став околу името е објавен многупати досега. Тој е принципиелен и не зависи од какви било притисоци или обиди за влијание, туку е дел од една државна стратегија, согласно со националните интереси. Нашите основи се споменати и во програмата Преродба во 100 чекори - надградена и проширена, каде што недвосмислено стои - ВМРО-ДПМНЕ нема да прифати промена на Уставот со цел промена на уставното име, нема да прифатиме идеи и предлози што ќе го нарушат македонскиот национален идентитет, македонската нација и јазик! Нема да дозволиме какво било решение да прифатат поединци политичари, владата или парламентот, без претходно да се изјаснат за тоа граѓаните на референдум и мнозинството граѓани да се согласи со тоа решение. Македонија води конзистентна политика во однос на спорот за името и постои одлична координација меѓу премиерот, претседателот и министерот за надворешни работи. Прашањето на името, за разлика од минатото кога за тоа решавале веројатно повеќе интуитивно, сега е прашање на систем и сериозна стратегија. (Од интервјуто во Утрински весник)

      МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

      Comment

      • Vangelovski
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 8531

        Prolet,

        This is just vauge DPMNE spin - that they won't change the constitution with the aim of changing the constitutional name. What does that actually mean? One of Nimitz's previous proposals has been to change the name for international use and keep the "constitutional name" for domestic use. That fulfills DPMNE's election promise and change's Macedonia's name.
        If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

        The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

        Comment

        • Soldier of Macedon
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 13670

          Isn't DPMNE's aim for some sort of bilateral solution with Greece? Once upon a time, this was looking like an idea that may be suitable, but it has become more than obvious that even this would be cheating ourselves.

          Will Macedonia become a 'pariah' state if we pulled out of the negotiations? Will people stop trading with us? Will everybody just drop their alliances, support, and agreements with us at the drop of a hat? Will Macedonia starve? No, no, no, and no.
          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

          Comment

          • Bratot
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 2855

            Mi se prisra od predlozive i ideive neka se gonat veke zavek.
            The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

            Comment

            • Prolet
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2009
              • 5241

              Vangelovski, We are pushing the double formula here, one name for Greece and another for Macedonia and the rest of the world. We have 127 countries that recognize us, Gjorgje Ivanov clearly stated that so why should we throw all that away?

              SOM, Why say DPMNE for?? This is how SDSM and Ljube's banda call VMRO, I thought you were a VMRO Supporter?
              МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

              Comment

              • Pelister
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 2742

                These New Greeks are liars and thieves.

                It would benefit everyone in Macedonia, and in Europe to call a spade a spade.

                That kind of honesty is worth gold for us, from a political point of view, because nearly everyone knows who these New Greeks really are, nearly everyone thinks it from time to time, but very few actually say it.

                Comment

                • Risto the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 15658

                  Is there a better time to withdraw from the negotiations?

                  Aside from at the beginning, I simply cannot see a better time to withdraw from the silly name negotiations. Will the EU look favourably at Greece's petulant moans about some name they recently embraced? Especially after the petulant Greeks started calling the Germans Nazi thieves. It is a golden opportunity to tell it like it is and for real leaders to stand up in Macedonia. Let Greece worry about its economy, Macedonia should worry about its identity for a moment.
                  Risto the Great
                  MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                  "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                  Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                  Comment

                  • Vangelovski
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 8531

                    RtG,

                    I think anytime is a good time. Now would be great and for no other reason than we Macedonians alone shall determine the name of our state.
                    If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                    The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                    Comment

                    • Soldier of Macedon
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 13670

                      We never should have been in them, but, if there was ever a time (late though it may be), then now is perfect, no reason to wait any longer. Greece is weak, Europe can't keep up with its corruption, the Americans are pre-occupied with their own issues, Gruevski and Ivanov need to make their stance now, because an opportunity like this will not present itself again.

                      Macedonia must pull out of all negotiations concerning our national identity, and end this shame and disgrace that has crippled our community for the last 2 decades.
                      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                      Comment

                      • fyrOM
                        Banned
                        • Feb 2010
                        • 2180

                        Recently I heard of gruevski giving eurostyle farming subsidies. Will the society suckling on these new found funds cope with the withdrawal symptoms. Will leaving the negotiations signal a step away from the eu and hence put in question why is the eu giving Macedonia aid. The balancing act gruevski and Macedonia are being made to do reminds me of those Chinese circus performers getting into weird contortions on top of each other while balancing juggling and hopping on one foot all at the same time.
                        Im also reminded of Jankovskas running theme - its easy to be patriotic sitting out in the sideline thousands of kilometres away - and I might add my own bit to this of doing all this while chomping on a meat pie and watching the football. We have all done it. don’t get me wrong I don’t buy this we’re so poor stuff for one second vini vidi vici any illisuins but the underlying needs for infrastructure health reform and others which don’t look like they’ve been touched since the 60s or 70s still remain. Lets give gruevski a chance to playout his juggling act and also hope for him increasing the numbers in the un for recognition of our name. there always is time to say nah stick it up your jumper.

                        Comment

                        • fyrOM
                          Banned
                          • Feb 2010
                          • 2180

                          Dammed spellchecker should be illusions

                          Comment

                          • julie
                            Senior Member
                            • May 2009
                            • 3869

                            Macedonians in Australia seek recognition of constitutional name - paper




                            Canberra, February 25 (MIA) - Macedonians living in Australia are eager for the Rudd Government to use them in advancing bilateral relations, saying there is much the two countries can offer each other. But what they would really like is for Australia to call the nation by its real name, reads Australian newspaper "The Canberra Times".

                            Washington-based president of the United Macedonian Diaspora, Metodija Koloski said being referred to as the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia was not acceptable to his countrymen.

                            "‘We want Australia to recognise the Republic of Macedonia by its constitutional name, as have many other nations around the world", he said, adding, "using the acronym FYROM is offensive to us".

                            Koloski said relations between Australia and Macedonia were highly positive, but more could be done to progress them.

                            "The Australian Government agrees the relationship is healthy, but there appears to be no movement on recognising the name", reads the newspaper.

                            Koloski said that while personal relations were good between the Macedonian and Greek communities in Australia, he believed Greek hardliners had lobbied the Government to limit its recognition of his country.

                            "For its part, the Greek diaspora in Australia claim Macedonia is 'casting its dark veil of propaganda over the masses in campaigns of outright malevolence against the integrity and importance of Hellenic history in southern Europe'", states "The Canberra Times".

                            Last week, South Australian Premier Mike Rann inflamed tensions and sparked a diplomatic incident by suggesting that Macedonian President Gjorge Ivanov was dangerously stirring up trouble and trying to "steal Greek history and culture".

                            Macedonia's ambassador to Australia, Pero Stojanovski, told "The Canberra Times" the Macedonian Embassy in Canberra was not pleased with the abusive comments made by Rann and sent a formal protest to Australian PM Rudd and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, seeking formal explanation and apology with regards to the comment.

                            The 2006 Census recorded 83,978 Macedonians living in Australia. ik/fd/12:15
                            "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

                            Comment

                            • julie
                              Senior Member
                              • May 2009
                              • 3869



                              German FM urges Macedonia's leadership to keep working on name row settlement

                              Berlin, February 25 (MIA) - Although not a simple matter for Macedonia, the country should keep working on settling the name row if it wishes to join the European Union and NATO. German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle said Thursday in Berlin after meeting his Macedonian counterpart Antonio Milososki.

                              Germany believes the dispute should be resolved under the UN mediation.

                              At the moment I see no possibility for Germany to take part in resolving the matter, which is a subject of negotiation process at the UN under (Matthew) Nimetz mediation, Westerwelle said.

                              - I may only encourage both parties to take active part in settling the issue, Westerwelle said at the joint press conference with Milososki.

                              In spite of Greece's irrational hindering of Macedonia's accession to the EU, NATO, the country is ready for reaching a compromise, which may be written and understood in both Macedonian and Greek languages, Milososki said.

                              - Our talks with Nimetz have been constructive and we expect that our neighbours in Athens will also cooperate with us so that the two parties may resume the dialogue at the highest diplomatic, political level, Milososki said.

                              Greece is not offering concrete proposals at the moment, while Macedonia has certain ideas for both parties to make a step forward in the process for settling the dispute, which were also discussed with Nimitz during his visit to Skopje, Milososki said.

                              The Ministers expressed satisfaction with the development of bilateral relations, in particular with the economic cooperation
                              "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

                              Comment

                              • julie
                                Senior Member
                                • May 2009
                                • 3869



                                Skopje blocks name row resolution - Greek MoFA's spokesman

                                Athens, February 25 (MIA) - Greece has demonstrated that it wants a solution, but Skopje is blocking efforts made for overcoming the bilateral name dispute, spokesman of Greece's Foreign Ministry Gregory Delavekouras stated Thursday ahead of tomorrow's visit by UN envoy Matthew Nimetz to Athens.

                                According to Delavekouras, the Macedonian Government "at the moment is very strong and has the opportunity to find a solution if it wants to." - Skopje refuses to negotiate about the essence of the issue, he said, reiterating that Athens pledged to settle the dispute with the establishment of one name for general use, that would include "a geographical determinant."

                                - We want a geographical determinant, because we cannot allow one part (of the geographical region of Macedonia) to represent the entire region, said Delavekouras.

                                He added that it was expected Nimetz to present the results of his recent visit to Macedonia and to be briefed on Greece's position on the matter at Friday's meeting with Alternate Foreign Minister Dimitris Droutsas in Athens.

                                Spokesman Delavekouras said Athens was hopeful that Macedonia would "act more constructively" in a bid to make headway regarding name row settlement, which would "pave the way to NATO and Europe" and to have Greece as friend while meeting these goals.

                                On Wednesday, Matthew Nimetz in Skopje after meeting with Macedonian Premier Nikola Gruevski stated that this was the right time to resolve the name issue, reiterating that he failed to bring any written documents.

                                - As you know over the years I've made a number of suggestions. I think a lot of those suggestions are still on the table and worthy of discussion and should be a part of a solution. The pieces of a solution are well known, but there's no complete solution, noted Nimetz
                                "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

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