People used for Byzantium the words «Romania» or «Armania»

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  • Carlin
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2011
    • 3332

    People used for Byzantium the words «Romania» or «Armania»

    THE GREEKS CALL THEIR COUNTRY ARMANIA (ROMANIA).

    Sources/links are provided and listed below – in case people think I conjured it up.

    This brief but rather stunning statement and find summarizes and lets us know the following simple truths:
    - The (bilingual) Armani-Vlachs formed the ethnic nucleus and majority in all Greek lands.
    - The Greeks, referenced in the statement, are simply Armani (Vlachs = Romaioi) who indeed called their country Armania (or Romania).
    - The Armani-Vlachs, or more accurately a small segment of its population (namely, the Elite – in all aspects of society) spoke Greek in addition to Vlachika, long before the arrival of the Ottoman Turks. They were bilingual.
    - Modern Greeks = Armani (Vlachs) = Romaioi
    - Byzantium was called Armania.

    THE GREEKS CALL THEIR COUNTRY ARMANIA.









    Links/Additional sources -

    <<οι Έλληνες ονομάζουν τη χώρα τους Αρμανία (Ρωμανία)>>







    &#919;&#967;&#951;&#961;&#940; &#957;&#964;&#959;&#954;&#959;&#965;&#956;&#941;&#957;&#964;&#945; &#947;&#953;&#945; &#964;&#951;&#957; &#949;&#955;&#955;&#951;&#957;&#953;&#954;&#942; &#954;&#945;&#964;&#945;&#947;&#969;&#947;&#942; &#964;&#959;&#965;&#962;, &#964;&#951; &#948;&#961;&#940;&#963;&#951; &#964;&#959;&#965;&#962; &#947;&#953;&#945; &#964;&#951;&#957; &#949;&#955;&#955;&#951;&#957;&#953;&#954;&#942; &#949;&#954;&#960;&#945;&#943;&#948;&#949;&#965;&#963;&#951; &#954;&#945;&#953; &#960;&#945;&#953;&#948;&#949;&#943;&#945; &#954;&#945;&#953; &#964;&#951;&#957; &#960;&#961;&#969;&#964;&#945;&#947;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#963;&#964;&#953;&#954;&#942; &#963;&#965;&#956;&#956;&#949;&#964;...
  • Amphipolis
    Banned
    • Aug 2014
    • 1328

    #2
    Originally posted by Carlin View Post
    THE GREEKS CALL THEIR COUNTRY ARMANIA (ROMANIA).
    Uh, no they didn’t. There are thousands or million documents per century and I’m not aware of any source suggesting something like that, regardless to which period you refer to between 4th-15th Century AD.



    Originally posted by Carlin View Post
    Sources/links are provided and listed below – in case people think I conjured it up.
    But, you DID conjure it up, or you’re unable to evaluate them.

    Originally posted by Carlin View Post
    This brief but rather stunning statement and find summarizes and lets us know the following simple truths:
    The (bilingual) Armani-Vlachs formed the ethnic nucleus and majority in all Greek lands.
    Vlachs have been an insignificant minority in the Greek lands. They DO form the majority at certain areas and periods. More is known on the more recent wave of Vlachs, which arrived in Greece during the Ottoman Empire. These have been mostly nomads that eventually settled down. Meanwhile, the earlier waves (from the Middle Age) that may have differed in character had vanished (being assimilated among the Greek/Roman people).

    Originally posted by Carlin View Post
    The Greeks, referenced in the statement, are simply Armani (Vlachs = Romaioi) who indeed called their country
    Armania (or Romania).
    Which statement is that? YOUR statement? So, who called their country Armania? The Greeks or the Vlachs?

    Originally posted by Carlin View Post
    The Armani-Vlachs, or more accurately a small segment of its population (namely, the Elite – in all aspects of society) spoke Greek in addition to Vlachika, long before the arrival of the Ottoman Turks. They were bilingual.
    Being nomads (mostly shepherds but also merchants) who travelled throughout the Balkans, the Vlachs would have to learn all the local languages.

    Originally posted by Carlin View Post
    Modern Greeks = Armani (Vlachs) = Romaioi
    Pardon? I… am Vlach? I didn’t know that.

    Originally posted by Carlin View Post
    Byzantium was called Armania.
    It was called many names, e.g. Romania (spelled and pronounced slightly differently that the modern country of Romania, but basically meaning the same thing, land/country of Romans), but I’ve never heard of Armania

    Originally posted by Carlin View Post
    THE GREEKS CALL THEIR COUNTRY ARMANIA.

    Originally posted by Carlin View Post
    Originally posted by Carlin View Post

    This author refers to the Greeks of Roman Empire (not the Vlachs) and says the info comes from Alexander Vasiliev and Zakynthinos. The problem is that these are both historians from 1890s-1950s. Did they really say so? Do they have a source?

    Originally posted by Carlin View Post
    What is this? And what does it say? Please, provide the name of author, title of book and an accurate translation of at least 3-4 lines, not just a phrase.

    Armania, Aromania, Romania ARE practically synonyms. The problem is that Armania was not used by Greeks, probably not by Vlachs either.


    Originally posted by Carlin View Post
    Links/Additional sources -

    <<οι Έλληνες ονομάζουν τη χώρα τους Αρμανία (Ρωμανία)>>

    This link contains the phrase

    Both first-medieval Aromanians/Vlachs and Greek-speaking inhabitants of the Eastern Roman Empire, Byzantium, were Roman citizens. Besides, it should be noted that people used for Byzantium the words ‘Ρωμανία’ «Romania» or ‘Αρμανία’ «Armania».

    I’m not sure about the last part and it’s not clear to whom he refers to.

    As you can see from your google search the name Armania is unknown in Greek.

    This is very extended and mentions Vasiliev again. It also mentions a source where Ρωμανία is spelled Ρουμανία (as the modern country of Romania)

    This one mentions again Vasiliev and Zakynthinos.



    ===
    Last edited by Amphipolis; 06-01-2016, 08:37 AM.

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    • Carlin
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2011
      • 3332

      #3
      Ellada = ROUMANIA, in the year 1059 -


      "THE GREEKS CALL THEIR COUNTRY ARMANIA" -


      Source: Page 70 of the book ΟΙ ΕΛΛΗΝΟΒΛΑΧΟΙ (ΑΡΜΑΝΟΙ) (ΠΡΩΤΟΣ ΤΟΜΟΣ), by ΕΞΑΡΧΟΣ ΓΙΩΡΓΗΣ (Exarchos Giorgis).

      For fair use.

      Comment

      • Amphipolis
        Banned
        • Aug 2014
        • 1328

        #4
        Originally posted by Carlin View Post
        Ellada = ROUMANIA, in the year 1059 -


        "THE GREEKS CALL THEIR COUNTRY ARMANIA" -


        Source: Page 70 of the book ΟΙ ΕΛΛΗΝΟΒΛΑΧΟΙ (ΑΡΜΑΝΟΙ) (ΠΡΩΤΟΣ ΤΟΜΟΣ), by ΕΞΑΡΧΟΣ ΓΙΩΡΓΗΣ (Exarchos Giorgis).

        For fair use.
        Regarding the first part, the Chronicle of Galaxeidi can be found on-line.
        One can read the whole paragraph. It’s not very credible, it doesn't make much sense, but anyway, what is the point exactly? The phrase refers to 1000 AD after it mentions an area was conquered by man-eating fierce pirates from the West.

        Note: This Chronicle was allegedly written in mid 1700s, found and published in mid 1800s.



        The second part AGAIN refers to the same ONE author (Vasiliev) who (the book says) has written sources (which we haven't seen yet).

        Comment

        • Carlin
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2011
          • 3332

          #5
          Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
          Regarding the first part, the Chronicle of Galaxeidi can be found on-line.
          One can read the whole paragraph. It’s not very credible, it doesn't make much sense, but anyway, what is the point exactly? The phrase refers to 1000 AD after it mentions an area was conquered by man-eating fierce pirates from the West.

          Note: This Chronicle was allegedly written in mid 1700s, found and published in mid 1800s.



          The second part AGAIN refers to the same ONE author (Vasiliev) who (the book says) has written sources (which we haven't seen yet).
          Source(s)? I have already posted an independent source in my original post (which is in French). (What are you looking for?)

          Here are the Google Book search results/hits, where it's clearly shown that THE GREEKS CALL THEIR COUNTRY ARMANIA.







          Last edited by Carlin; 06-15-2016, 08:45 AM.

          Comment

          • tchaiku
            Member
            • Nov 2016
            • 786

            #6
            Romanian was used for communication in Byzantine Empire (more than Greek language)

            Read it all not just the underlines.


            A complex book which goes from explaining how climate changes (based on changing of the earth's axis tilt) to the formation of the indo-European languages' first words and the misunderstood part of white race history. This book reveals the unknown part of indo-European history in Asia, which is very wrongly taught today. The evolution of European languages is corrected based on very logical and well-documented bases. It is a book that requires intelligence and great curiosity, as well as the ability to concentrate because many lexicons are found throughout the book. Any intelligent person will have a very different understanding of earth's history and reason for climate change after reading this book. The book is extremely informative in many fields and the writer expects no mercy from the people who can prove him wrong. Try it.



            More:
            THE GREEKS CALL THEIR COUNTRY ARMANIA (ROMANIA). Sources/links are provided and listed below in case people think I conjured it up. This brief but rather stunning statement and find summarizes and lets us know the following simple truths: - The (bilingual) Armani-Vlachs formed the ethnic nucleus and majority in all

            Search Google Books: Byzantine Empire Romania
            Byzantine Empire called Romania
            etc.


            Βασιλεία Ῥωμαίων
            Basileía Rhōmaíōna
            Imperium Romanum

            The terms "Byzantine Empire" and "Byzantine Greeks" were first coined in the English language in 1857 by British historian George Finlay.[1]
            Rosser 2011, p. 2: "George Finlay's History of the Byzantine Empire from 716 to 1057, published in 1857, was the first occasion of "Byzantine Empire" being used in a modern historical narrative in English."
            Last edited by tchaiku; 01-15-2017, 09:22 AM.

            Comment

            • Soldier of Macedon
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 13670

              #7
              Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
              Read it all not just the underlines.
              It doesn't look like those two pages are from the same book. With regard to the first page (for which you've provided a link), some of what is written makes sense, the rest of it no so much. Further, the author of this book seems to be some sort of Romanian crackpot theorist, as evidenced by the title of the book and some of the other things he has written which are cited in the below link and text (note: I don't know anything about the blog owner on the link, I am only referring to him because he cites more of the Romanian author's text):

              Yesterday I discussed a weird local Romanian fringe claim about Black Knights and the Force of Neutrality that seems to have originated with Romanian politician Codrin &#350;tef&#259;nescu, who attributes it...

              The cradle of the white race was located in that bowl called Pontus (the Black Sea of today) and a great civilization existed before the Great Flood. Their language reached its highest peak before the flood and after that it degraded into the languages of today. Greek and Latin reached high points, but never got close to the height of the Atlantis people’s language. Romanian is closer than any other to the original language, because those people never left the land. I prove in this book that Latin descended from Romanian and not the other way around. Romanian is a highly deteriorated form of the original Pontic language (I call the White Race “Pontic” and their language as well), but one can still connect the words way back; I even managed to reach the very first words. Only with the Romanian language is that possible, and if I hadn’t known the language to the extent that I do, this book would never have been written.
              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

              Comment

              • tchaiku
                Member
                • Nov 2016
                • 786

                #8
                Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                It doesn't look like those two pages are from the same book. With regard to the first page (for which you've provided a link), some of what is written makes sense, the rest of it no so much. Further, the author of this book seems to be some sort of Romanian crackpot theorist, as evidenced by the title of the book and some of the other things he has written which are cited in the below link and text (note: I don't know anything about the blog owner on the link, I am only referring to him because he cites more of the Romanian author's text):

                http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/ro...st-of-atlantis
                Can you remove both of those 2 threads? I am doing a better research to find a more reliable source.

                Comment

                • Carlin
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2011
                  • 3332

                  #9
                  The title of this thread is interesting, and I have already contributed to this topic in several/different previous threads.

                  Namely:
                  THE GREEKS CALL THEIR COUNTRY ARMANIA (ROMANIA). Sources/links are provided and listed below in case people think I conjured it up. This brief but rather stunning statement and find summarizes and lets us know the following simple truths: - The (bilingual) Armani-Vlachs formed the ethnic nucleus and majority in all

                  I have edited/removed some sentences and paragraphs. http://www.freeinquiry.gr/pro.php?id=2793&amp;PHPSESSID=1a2502900037c680062f04c9715f5254 The formal education of the current Greek state presents a warped image of Asia Minor, in which the region everything was supposedly Greek and those who were/are &quot;barbarians&quo

                  Konstantinija is correct name for the Tsars City Constantinople is fake and invited ( guesses are 19th cent.) therm as well after Konstantinia has been renamed as Islam bool .&#65279; Holly macaroni lets read some more nonsense : Constantinople (Greek: &#922;&#969;&#957;&#963;&#964;&#945;&#957;&#964;&#953;&#957;&#959;&


                  In Summary:
                  - In the middle ages, "Greece" and/or the entirety of what was known as "Byzantium" was called ARMANIA / ROMANIA by its inhabitants. I have provided documented evidence for this.
                  - Speaking of Byzantium -- the following is my copy and paste:

                  An epigram in celebration of Porphyrius' role in overthrowing a usurper calls the Constantinopolitans Ausonians. The usage Ausonia = Byzantium became popular in the 12th century ("children of Ausonia" was used to describe contemporary Byzantines). Indeed, it appears certain from the sources that the "Byzantines" regularly called themselves Ausones, which was an ancient name for the original inhabitants of Italy. This was the standard "classicizing" name that the Byzantines used for themselves.

                  (As always, for the above, I can provide full sources; they are basically from the following authors: Elizabeth A. Fisher, Philip Rousseau, Anthony Kaldellis.)

                  - Last but not least I have provided ample evidence of many other little known historical and ethnographic facts which can be found throughout the forum threads.

                  PS: What caught my eye above is the claim that the entire Asia Minor (with some exceptions) spoke the same language as the "Thracians and Scythians". That's rather curious -- I saw many months ago (I forget the source unfortunately) that the shepherds (whatever language they spoke) of Asia Minor, in some pockets/areas of Asia Minor or modern Turkey, used to be called Romana until not long ago.
                  Last edited by Carlin; 01-15-2017, 06:05 PM.

                  Comment

                  • Soldier of Macedon
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 13670

                    #10
                    Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
                    Can you remove both of those 2 threads? I am doing a better research to find a more reliable source.
                    Your other thread was deleted and this one was merged with an earlier one on the same topic created by Carlin.
                    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                    Comment

                    • tchaiku
                      Member
                      • Nov 2016
                      • 786

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
                      Uh, no they didn’t. There are thousands or million documents per century and I’m not aware of any source suggesting something like that, regardless to which period you refer to between 4th-15th Century AD.




                      ===
                      The encyclopedia that you linked writes:


                      Both "Byzantine Empire" and "Eastern Roman Empire" are historiographical terms created after the end of the realm; its citizens continued to refer to their empire as the Roman Empire (Greek: Βασιλεία τῶν Ῥωμαίων, tr. Basileia tôn Rhōmaiōn; Latin: Imperium Romanum),[2] or Romania (Ῥωμανία), and to themselves as "Romans"

                      Comment

                      • Amphipolis
                        Banned
                        • Aug 2014
                        • 1328

                        #12
                        Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
                        The encyclopedia that you linked writes:
                        Both "Byzantine Empire" and "Eastern Roman Empire" are historiographical terms created after the end of the realm; its citizens continued to refer to their empire as the Roman Empire (Greek: Βασιλεία τῶν Ῥωμαίων, tr. Basileia tôn Rhōmaiōn; Latin: Imperium Romanum),[2] or Romania (Ῥωμανία), and to themselves as "Romans"
                        My objection was about the term Armania which was/is totally unknown here and was never used as far as I know or found in any document.

                        Comment

                        • Carlin
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2011
                          • 3332

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
                          My objection was about the term Armania which was/is totally unknown here and was never used as far as I know or found in any document.
                          You know better than A. A. Vasiliev and Dionysios Zakynthinos.

                          Comment

                          • Amphipolis
                            Banned
                            • Aug 2014
                            • 1328

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Carlin View Post
                            You know better than A. A. Vasiliev and Dionysios Zakynthinos.
                            I certainly do, but I wouldn't hurry to blame Vasiliev as we haven't seen his famous phrase or source yet. Did you really believe that a Russian out of nowhere in 1905 would produce an information that is ABOUT Greece and is yet (for some reason) totally unknown in Greece?

                            Comment

                            • Carlin
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2011
                              • 3332

                              #15
                              "Στο εξής χωρίο διηγήσεως περί της Αγίας Σοφίας (18ος αιώνας), το όνομα Ρουμανία ίσως αναφέρεται στην Πελοπόννησο: "τας λοιπάς κολώνας (της Αγ. Σοφίας) έφεραν από τας Κυκλάδας νήσους και χώρας, από την Κύζικον, από την Τρωάδα, από την Κρήτην, από την Ρουμανίαν, από την Σάμον, από την Χίον, από την Κύπρον, από την Ρόδον και απλώς ειπείν από όλα τα νησιά" (A. Delette, Anecdota Atheniensia, τομ. 1, σ. 301)"

                              "In the following verse on St. Sophia (18th century), the name of Roumania may be mentioned in the Peloponnese: "the other columns (of St. Sophia) brought from the Cycladic islands and country, from Kyzikos, from Troad, from Crete, from Roumania, from Samos, from Chios, from Cyprus, from Rhodes, and simply from all the islands" (A. Delette, Anecdota Atheniensia, vol. 1, p. 301)

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