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  • Soldier of Macedon
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 13670

    A group of Serbian volunteers, self-styled members of the Chetnik movement, has arrived in the Crimean port of Sevastopol on a mission to support the Russian side in the disputed Ukrainian region.

    Serbian Fighters Help 'Russian Brothers' in Crimea

    A group of Serbian volunteers, self-styled members of the Chetnik movement, has arrived in the Crimean port of Sevastopol on a mission to support the Russian side in the disputed Ukrainian region.

    “Our aim is to support the Russian people in the name of the Serbian people,” a Serbian volunteer named Milutin Malisic said. “We are representing Chetnik movement, which is similar to the Russian Cossacks,” he told the Russian agency Itar Tass.

    Malisic, who says his particular group of fighters is called "the Wolves", says they arrived in Crimea on the invitation of Russian fighters - and wanted to repay the Russians for their support for Serbia in the Balkan wars of the 1990s.

    “During the wars in Yugoslavia, a lot of volunteers fought on the Serbian side, so we, as their brothers, have decided to help them. That is why we are here,” Malisic continued.

    It is not clear how many Serbs have headed for Crimea. In a YouTube video the Serb fighter in traditional furry hat and beard can be seen addressing a crowd of supporters in Crimea with the aid of a Russian translator, talking of their common Slavic blood and Orthodox faith. Serbian and Russian nationalists are closely allied - bound by a common Orthodox faith and a similar anti-Western outlook. Serbian nationalists are not the only ones heading for Crimea in support of the Russian cause, however. Both tend to see the EU, NATO and the US and hostile to their national interests.

    All over Russia itself volunteers are being recruited via social media. A group called the "Civil Defence of Ukraine" is asking all men aged 18-45 who are ready to travel to Ukraine to volunteer through VKontakte, the main Russian-language social network. The page was set up just over a week ago and has more than 7,000 followers. It includes an online form calling for recruits and urges male volunteers to cross the border and offer what it calls "moral support" to Russians whom they believe are now at risk following the recent coup in Kiev.

    The Crimea, located on the northern coast of the Black Sea, is currently the subject of a stand-off between Russia and Ukraine, which accuses Russia of occuping the region. Most locals in Crimea are ethnic Russians, and many say it was wrong of the former Soviet authorities to transfer Crimea from Russia to Ukraine in 1954.
    One of the great concerns for EU states over the on-going situation in Crimea is their reliance on Russian gas to meet their energy demands, with around 60 per cent of these imports being delivered…

    Bulgaria and Macedonia would be hardest hit by a suspension of Russian gas exports through Ukraine

    .......Turkey would be able to make up only part of its shortfall by using spare capacity in the Blue Stream pipeline, and so would be unable to transit extra Russian gas supplies to Greece or to reverse the cross-border pipeline connection with Bulgaria. Macedonia relies completely on transit via Bulgaria for access to its Russian gas supplies. If Bulgaria faces a complete lack of import supplies, so too will Macedonia. Therefore, Bulgaria and Macedonia would face significant shortfalls in their gas imports.
    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

    Comment

    • Big Bad Sven
      Senior Member
      • Jan 2009
      • 1528

      Exposed: Obama states Kosovo left Serbia only after referendum, but there was NO referendum at all

      Barack Obama’s speech on Ukrainian crisis seems to have left the public confused as he claimed that Kosovo broke away from Serbia “after a referendum”. But attentive listeners quickly pointed Obama’s gaps in history – there was no referendum in Kosovo.

      President Obama was speaking Wednesday at The Center for Fine Arts in the heart of Brussels, Belgium, and was telling the youth crowd mostly about Russian-Ukrainian conflict over the strategic Crimean Peninsula.

      He lashed out at Russia for “violation of international law, its assault on Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity.”

      Obama recalled the conflict around Kosovo and NATO’s involvement, making a counter-argument to Russia officials’ statements, in which they cited Kosovo independence from Serbia in 2008 as the precedent.

      He said: “And Kosovo only left Serbia after a referendum was organized not outside the boundaries of international law, but in careful cooperation with the United Nations and with Kosovo’s neighbors. None of that even came close to happening in Crimea.”

      In fact, “none of that even came close to happening” in Kosovo either.

      What DID happen in Kosovo

      Following a three-month NATO bombing of former Yugoslavia in June, 1999, Kosovo was placed under administration of the United Nations Mission in Kosovo (UNMIK) and a NATO-led peacekeeping force, KFOR, were authorized to enter the province.

      Two years after UNMIK and KFOR arrived there, in May, 14, 2001, the UN approved a "constitutional framework for a provisional Self-Government in Kosovo.”

      It called for a 120-seat Parliament, which would elect a president and a prime minister.

      In November that year Kosovo held its first parliamentary elections that the UN hailed as a huge “success”.

      The year of 2005 also became no less significant for Kosovo as the UN Secretary General Kofi Annan appointed Martti Ahtisaari to lead the Kosovo status process, thus, giving the province “a green light” to fight for its independence.

      After numerous talks with both Serbia and Kosovo officials, in 2007 Ahtisaari came up with the plan that included “ten guiding principles,” which outlined the broad governing authority and structure of the Kosovo government.

      The so-called “Ahtisaari plan” represented a compromise between both sides. It gave broad provisions for Kosovo autonomy, including the ability to enter into international agreements and become a member of international organizations.

      Backed by the Contact Group (the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy, and Russia) and by Kosovo, the plan still lacked Serbian agreement. Russia eventually rejected the plan along with Serbia and, as a result, negotiations reached a deadlock.

      However, despite the stalemate within the Contact Group, Kosovo's authorities still decided to declare independence in February, 2008.

      On February 17, 2008, the Kosovo assembly adopted a declaration of independence “in full accordance with the recommendations of UN Special Envoy Martti Ahtisaari.” On the same day, the US and four European states recognized Kosovo as an independent country.

      ‘You can’t just make up facts’

      “I honestly don’t know what President Obama is talking about,” Serbian historian Nebojsa Malic told RT. “There was never such a referendum. It never took place. It did not exist. I am completely baffled.”

      Meanwhile, on Twitter Obama’s faux-pas also did not pass unnoticed.

      People accused the US President of “lying about the referendum”.

      Some have pointed out that the US media chose just to “ignore” Obama’s mistake.

      Speaking to RT, Nebojsa Malic suggested that it could be the case that Obama’s speechwriter just “mistook the non-existent referendum in Kosovo with the referendum in Montenegro that took place in 2006.”

      “If that is the referendum they were referring to, first of all, it is just baffling that they can’t tell apart Kosovo and Montenegro. Secondly, that is not exactly a paragon of democracy in international laws either,” Malic said, stressing that that referendum was held under “very murky circumstances when people were being bought openly.”

      “I am really not sure what sort of point they were trying to make, but you can’t just make up your own facts to boost your own argument. That is ridiculous,” he concluded.

      Were there absolutely no independence referendums in Kosovo? Well, there was one in 1991 - its results were recognized by just one UN member, Albania.

      Barack Obama’s speech on Ukrainian crisis seems to have left the public confused as he claimed that Kosovo broke away from Serbia “after a referendum”. But attentive listeners quickly pointed Obama’s gaps in history – there was no referendum in Kosovo.



      So why did Obama lie about what happened in Kosovo?

      So the question remains, why is kosovo allowed to suddenly by independent from serbia and Crimea is not? (At least Crimea) had a referendum.)

      Comment

      • Big Bad Sven
        Senior Member
        • Jan 2009
        • 1528

        [QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;149384]http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/arti...head-to-crimea



        Bulgarians have also gone to fight for Russia. I guess this is when the serbs and Bulgarians start to kiss russian ass?


        Bulgarians, Serbs volunteering for Russian forces in Crimea-UPDATED-2
        Bulgarians, Serbs volunteering for Russian forces in Crimea-UPDATED-2
        Far-right Orthodox groups in Bulgaria have been calling on volunteers to fight in Ukraine for Russian forces.

        World Bulletin / News Desk

        Far-right Bulgarians have been using social media websites to call their people to go to Crimea to 'defend' Bulgarians living there from 'violence and oppression.'

        A group calling themselves the 'Orthodox Dawn', along with the Bulgarian Nationalist Party (BNP), have been making the call over websites like Facebook and Twitter.

        BNP leader Simeon Kostadinov said that there was no central governing body in Ukraine at the moment, and that the enforcement of law and order had been left to militants after president Viktor Yanukovich was ousted from office.

        Orthodox Dawn leader Pavel Chernev said that his group would sponser Bulgarians willing to go to Ukraine, along with the help of an unnamed organization based in Rome.

        According to Al Jazeera Turk, intelligence sources have noted 20 Bulgarians who have gone to Ukraine to join the 'Dobrovolets' paramilitary group, which is believed to be under the control of Russia.

        The same groups reportedly told their followers that the religion os Islam has increased its influence in the Balkans, and has called on Orthodox Christians in Serbia, Macedonia, Greece and Russia to combine their efforts to prevent this.

        Serbs volunteer to help 'Orthodox brothers'

        On Thursday, five men, believed to be volunteers from Serbia, were filmed patrolling vehicles in Crimea for pro-Russian militias.

        Their uniforms sported the symbols of the Serb nationalist Chetnik movement, which originated in the early 1900s as an insurgency against Ottoman rule.

        Despite being banned after World War II, the group re-emerged during the 1990s Balkan wars, which saw the dismemberment of Yugoslavia.

        The Chetniks are known for their brutality towards the Bosniaks in particular, and still intimate Bosniaks in the mainly Serb regions of Bosnia-Herzegovina today.

        They said they were invited by the Cossaks, a group of Russian volunteers with a similar ideology.

        Comment

        • lavce pelagonski
          Senior Member
          • Nov 2009
          • 1993

          Ukrainian nationalists threaten to storm parliament after leader's killing
          Published time: March 27, 2014 19:23
          Edited time: March 28, 2014 01:24
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          Nationalists from the Right Sector movement gather outside the parliament building to demand the immediate resignation of Internal Affairs Minister Arsen Avakov, in Kiev March 27, 2014. (Reuters / Vasily Fedosenko)
          Download video (13.08 MB)

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          Ukraine turmoil

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          Clashes, Ukraine

          Over 1,500 nationalists from the Right Sector have circled Ukrainian parliament in Kiev threatening to storm it on Thursday. They demanded the resignation of the interior minister after their leader Muzychko was killed in a police operation.

          Up to 2,000 members of the Right Sector, which recently was revamped into a political party, flooded the square in front of Verkhovna Rada in the Ukrainian capital on Thursday night. The radicals, who brought car tires to burn with them, were banging on the Parliament’s doors, smashing the glass parts in them.

          Wearing masks and brandishing bats, they were shouting "Avakov, get out!"

          The parliament building was empty except for guards, some administrative staff and reporters. All the MPs had earlier left the building through an underground tunnel, RIA Novosti reported.

          The protesters were threatening to break into the parliament if their demands were not met, journalists reported from the scene. The Rada’s security in the meantime concentrated in front of the entrance to the building and prepared water cannons, urging the journalists inside not to approach the windows looking onto Constitution Square.

          Several hours into the standoff activists announced the rally was over for tonight as they decided not to storm the building just yet, but reconvene tomorrow.

          On Friday, Verkhovna Rada will hold an emergency session to discuss the possibility of Avakov’s resignation, one of the representatives of the Right sector told Itar-Tass. Right Sector activists have been urged to gather outside the Parliament building at 9:00 GMT.

          Although the major part of the crowd has already dispersed, about a hundred people are still reportedly picketing the building .

          Принесли залізяки. Гупають у них pic.twitter.com/0yJC8j8zGb

          — Oksana Kovalenko (@superumka) March 27, 2014

          Interior Minister Arsen Avakov is held personally responsible by the nationalists for the death of Aleksandr Muzychko, also known as Sashko Bilyi, one of the Right Sector leaders. Muzychko was declared killed in a police raid against his gang in Rovno, western Ukraine, on Tuesday.

          Following the death, Right Sector leaders threatened Avakov with revenge, though they did not specify exactly what they would do. Dmitry Yarosh called for the minister's dismissal.

          "We’ll wait for the negotiators from the Parliament, the MPs, but we won’t settle for Avakov’s resignation – we want his tribunal,” the radicals announced through megaphones.

          The radicals also blame the interior minister for not putting enough effort into investigating investigate the deaths of protesters during the Maidan standoff in January and February.

          Правый сектор прямо в эту минуту грозятся штурмом Верховной Раде Украины pic.twitter.com/bC5ooAgOBO

          — Serge Medyanik (@serge_medyanik) March 27, 2014

          The leader of the UDAR party and former boxing champ, Vitaly Klitschko, went out to the negotiate with the Right Sector in front of the Rada.

          Klitschko tried to persuade the radicals to give up the idea of storming the parliament building as “it will destabilize the current situation in Ukraine. The parliament building is empty, because the deputies have already left.”

          Over 1,500 nationalists from the Right Sector have circled Ukrainian parliament in Kiev threatening to storm it on Thursday. They demanded the resignation of the interior minister after their leader Muzychko was killed in a police operation.
          Стравот на Атина од овој Македонец одел до таму што го нарекле „Страшниот Чакаларов“ „гркоубиец“ и „крвожеден комитаџија“.

          „Ако знам дека тука тече една капка грчка крв, јас сега би ја отсекол целата рака и би ја фрлил в море.“ Васил Чакаларов

          Comment

          • Gocka
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2012
            • 2306

            It is a blatant lie and you have to assume it was either because of a speech writers poor research or an intentional addition to try and bolster the argument on the illegality of the Crimean referendum.

            Lets be honest though, had there been a referendum we all know it would have been overwhelmingly in favor of secession anyway. The real kicker is that they actually held a referendum almost a decade earlier but no one cared.

            I find it hard to criticize the Kosovar's or Crimean's. If Macedonians in Pirin or Egej held a referendum to secede form Bulgaria or Greece would we not support it? On the flip side if Albanians in Tetovo and Debar wanted the same, I'm sure we would oppose it.

            I really dont know what the right answer is in these situations, Macedonia included. Who does the land belong to, the current residents, historical residents, the state?

            I do know one thing though; Europe is going through a lot of sleepless nights wondering what the future holds for all the conglomerate nations that make up the continent. England, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, pretty much all of them, were formed when many different tribes and ethnicites were combined under kingdoms, then those kingdoms became nations, but they are still the sum of all those different tribes.



            Originally posted by Big Bad Sven View Post
            Exposed: Obama states Kosovo left Serbia only after referendum, but there was NO referendum at all

            Barack Obama’s speech on Ukrainian crisis seems to have left the public confused as he claimed that Kosovo broke away from Serbia “after a referendum”. But attentive listeners quickly pointed Obama’s gaps in history – there was no referendum in Kosovo.

            President Obama was speaking Wednesday at The Center for Fine Arts in the heart of Brussels, Belgium, and was telling the youth crowd mostly about Russian-Ukrainian conflict over the strategic Crimean Peninsula.

            He lashed out at Russia for “violation of international law, its assault on Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity.”

            Obama recalled the conflict around Kosovo and NATO’s involvement, making a counter-argument to Russia officials’ statements, in which they cited Kosovo independence from Serbia in 2008 as the precedent.

            He said: “And Kosovo only left Serbia after a referendum was organized not outside the boundaries of international law, but in careful cooperation with the United Nations and with Kosovo’s neighbors. None of that even came close to happening in Crimea.”

            In fact, “none of that even came close to happening” in Kosovo either.

            What DID happen in Kosovo

            Following a three-month NATO bombing of former Yugoslavia in June, 1999, Kosovo was placed under administration of the United Nations Mission in Kosovo (UNMIK) and a NATO-led peacekeeping force, KFOR, were authorized to enter the province.

            Two years after UNMIK and KFOR arrived there, in May, 14, 2001, the UN approved a "constitutional framework for a provisional Self-Government in Kosovo.”

            It called for a 120-seat Parliament, which would elect a president and a prime minister.

            In November that year Kosovo held its first parliamentary elections that the UN hailed as a huge “success”.

            The year of 2005 also became no less significant for Kosovo as the UN Secretary General Kofi Annan appointed Martti Ahtisaari to lead the Kosovo status process, thus, giving the province “a green light” to fight for its independence.

            After numerous talks with both Serbia and Kosovo officials, in 2007 Ahtisaari came up with the plan that included “ten guiding principles,” which outlined the broad governing authority and structure of the Kosovo government.

            The so-called “Ahtisaari plan” represented a compromise between both sides. It gave broad provisions for Kosovo autonomy, including the ability to enter into international agreements and become a member of international organizations.

            Backed by the Contact Group (the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy, and Russia) and by Kosovo, the plan still lacked Serbian agreement. Russia eventually rejected the plan along with Serbia and, as a result, negotiations reached a deadlock.

            However, despite the stalemate within the Contact Group, Kosovo's authorities still decided to declare independence in February, 2008.

            On February 17, 2008, the Kosovo assembly adopted a declaration of independence “in full accordance with the recommendations of UN Special Envoy Martti Ahtisaari.” On the same day, the US and four European states recognized Kosovo as an independent country.

            ‘You can’t just make up facts’

            “I honestly don’t know what President Obama is talking about,” Serbian historian Nebojsa Malic told RT. “There was never such a referendum. It never took place. It did not exist. I am completely baffled.”

            Meanwhile, on Twitter Obama’s faux-pas also did not pass unnoticed.

            People accused the US President of “lying about the referendum”.

            Some have pointed out that the US media chose just to “ignore” Obama’s mistake.

            Speaking to RT, Nebojsa Malic suggested that it could be the case that Obama’s speechwriter just “mistook the non-existent referendum in Kosovo with the referendum in Montenegro that took place in 2006.”

            “If that is the referendum they were referring to, first of all, it is just baffling that they can’t tell apart Kosovo and Montenegro. Secondly, that is not exactly a paragon of democracy in international laws either,” Malic said, stressing that that referendum was held under “very murky circumstances when people were being bought openly.”

            “I am really not sure what sort of point they were trying to make, but you can’t just make up your own facts to boost your own argument. That is ridiculous,” he concluded.

            Were there absolutely no independence referendums in Kosovo? Well, there was one in 1991 - its results were recognized by just one UN member, Albania.

            Barack Obama’s speech on Ukrainian crisis seems to have left the public confused as he claimed that Kosovo broke away from Serbia “after a referendum”. But attentive listeners quickly pointed Obama’s gaps in history – there was no referendum in Kosovo.



            So why did Obama lie about what happened in Kosovo?

            So the question remains, why is kosovo allowed to suddenly by independent from serbia and Crimea is not? (At least Crimea) had a referendum.)

            Comment

            • Momce Makedonce
              Member
              • Jul 2012
              • 562

              [QUOTE=Big Bad Sven;149390]
              Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
              http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/arti...head-to-crimea



              Bulgarians have also gone to fight for Russia. I guess this is when the serbs and Bulgarians start to kiss russian ass?


              Bulgarians, Serbs volunteering for Russian forces in Crimea-UPDATED-2
              Bulgarians, Serbs volunteering for Russian forces in Crimea-UPDATED-2
              Far-right Orthodox groups in Bulgaria have been calling on volunteers to fight in Ukraine for Russian forces.

              World Bulletin / News Desk

              Far-right Bulgarians have been using social media websites to call their people to go to Crimea to 'defend' Bulgarians living there from 'violence and oppression.'

              A group calling themselves the 'Orthodox Dawn', along with the Bulgarian Nationalist Party (BNP), have been making the call over websites like Facebook and Twitter.

              BNP leader Simeon Kostadinov said that there was no central governing body in Ukraine at the moment, and that the enforcement of law and order had been left to militants after president Viktor Yanukovich was ousted from office.

              Orthodox Dawn leader Pavel Chernev said that his group would sponser Bulgarians willing to go to Ukraine, along with the help of an unnamed organization based in Rome.

              According to Al Jazeera Turk, intelligence sources have noted 20 Bulgarians who have gone to Ukraine to join the 'Dobrovolets' paramilitary group, which is believed to be under the control of Russia.

              The same groups reportedly told their followers that the religion os Islam has increased its influence in the Balkans, and has called on Orthodox Christians in Serbia, Macedonia, Greece and Russia to combine their efforts to prevent this.

              Serbs volunteer to help 'Orthodox brothers'

              On Thursday, five men, believed to be volunteers from Serbia, were filmed patrolling vehicles in Crimea for pro-Russian militias.

              Their uniforms sported the symbols of the Serb nationalist Chetnik movement, which originated in the early 1900s as an insurgency against Ottoman rule.

              Despite being banned after World War II, the group re-emerged during the 1990s Balkan wars, which saw the dismemberment of Yugoslavia.

              The Chetniks are known for their brutality towards the Bosniaks in particular, and still intimate Bosniaks in the mainly Serb regions of Bosnia-Herzegovina today.

              They said they were invited by the Cossaks, a group of Russian volunteers with a similar ideology.

              http://www.worldbulletin.net/news/13...imea-updated-2
              LOL I knew that Bulgarians and Serbians have some weird fetish for Russia, but I never expected them to be actually willing to fight for Russia in a conflict that has nothing to do with them.

              This is just blatant ass-licking.
              "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task." Goce Delcev

              Comment

              • George S.
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2009
                • 10116

                does anyone know if Macedonia is helping the ukraines or not.?
                "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                GOTSE DELCEV

                Comment

                • Big Bad Sven
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2009
                  • 1528

                  Originally posted by Gocka View Post
                  It is a blatant lie and you have to assume it was either because of a speech writers poor research or an intentional addition to try and bolster the argument on the illegality of the Crimean referendum.

                  Lets be honest though, had there been a referendum we all know it would have been overwhelmingly in favor of secession anyway. The real kicker is that they actually held a referendum almost a decade earlier but no one cared.

                  I find it hard to criticize the Kosovar's or Crimean's. If Macedonians in Pirin or Egej held a referendum to secede form Bulgaria or Greece would we not support it? On the flip side if Albanians in Tetovo and Debar wanted the same, I'm sure we would oppose it.

                  I really dont know what the right answer is in these situations, Macedonia included. Who does the land belong to, the current residents, historical residents, the state?

                  I do know one thing though; Europe is going through a lot of sleepless nights wondering what the future holds for all the conglomerate nations that make up the continent. England, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, pretty much all of them, were formed when many different tribes and ethnicites were combined under kingdoms, then those kingdoms became nations, but they are still the sum of all those different tribes.

                  If there was a referendum TODAY in pirin or Aegean macedonia i would highly doubt many macedonians would rock up and vote to join macedonia. Most are grkomans and bugaromans. I think the ship has sailed in regards to a large population of macedonians in Bulgaria and Greece wanting to join macedonia around after the 'greek civil war'

                  Some times these referendums back fire as well. The slovenes in Austria decided to stay in Austria and not yugoslavia simply because Austria was more prosperous. I see the same thing happening with macedonians outside the republic......
                  The only area i see that would join macedonia is the macedonians in Albania.

                  I dont support the albanians in western macedonia joining albania. And this is why i am upset with the USA. They have opened a can of worms by simply deciding over night to recognize kosovo (illegally btw) as separate from serbia. It has set a precedent which the russians are exploiting and makes me worried the same thing will happen in macedonia.

                  I only support what russia has done solely because it teaches the US/EU a lesson on the mistake they made in the balkans. I actually wish crimea never left Ukraine, however the russians should of had their rights respected.

                  I only support minorities that dont have a country to call home. The kurds deserve a kurdistan, the 'kosovars' dont deserve kosovo as they already have Albania. Thats the messed up thing about western politics.

                  Comment

                  • lavce pelagonski
                    Senior Member
                    • Nov 2009
                    • 1993

                    Obama says 'bigger nations cannot simply bully smaller ones'. Wait... what?
                    Published time: March 27, 2014 10:03
                    Edited time: March 27, 2014 17:35
                    Get short URL

                    U.S. President Barack Obama waves after delivering a speech at Palais des Beaux-Arts (BOZAR) in Brussels, Belgium March 26, 2014 (Reuters / Kevin Lamarque)
                    Download video (24.84 MB)
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                    Ukraine turmoil

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                    Andrew Farmer, Conflict, Gayane Chichakyan, Obama, Politics, Russia, USA

                    President Obama's key speech in Brussels on Ukraine and attempts to isolate Russia appears to be an exercise of omission, mutually-exclusive statements and unveiled double standards.

                    Here's a quick look at what Obama told an audience of some 2,000 people in his damning 30-minute speech.
                    “Each of us has the right to live as we choose.”

                    But it's true only for those good pro-European protesters in Kiev, who used firebombs and batons to make their point. The bad pro-Russian residents of Crimea are not allowed to, right?

                    A man prepares to cast his ballot during the referendum on the status of Ukraine's Crimea region at a polling station in Simferopol March 16, 2014 (Reuters / Vasily Fedosenko)

                    A man prepares to cast his ballot during the referendum on the status of Ukraine's Crimea region at a polling station in Simferopol March 16, 2014 (Reuters / Vasily Fedosenko)
                    “Together, we’ve condemned Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and rejected the legitimacy of the Crimean referendum.”

                    That's right. Referendum = bad. Firebombs = good.

                    An anti-government protester throws a Molotov cocktail towards Interior Ministry members during clashes in Kiev, February 18, 2014 (Reuters / Maks Levin)

                    An anti-government protester throws a Molotov cocktail towards Interior Ministry members during clashes in Kiev, February 18, 2014 (Reuters / Maks Levin)

                    Well, Obama says Russia invaded Ukraine while the US and the EU stayed at arm's length and allowed things to settle down.
                    “Make no mistake, neither the United States nor Europe has any interest in controlling Ukraine.”

                    And they absolutely didn't send troves of officials to Kiev to cheer up anti-government protesters. And when Deputy Secretary of State Victoria Nuland discussed with Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt who should and who shouldn’t be in the next Ukrainian government, that was merely small talk between two observing diplomats.

                    U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Victoria Nuland (R) and U.S. Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt (2nd R) distribute bread to riot police near Independence square in Kiev December 11, 2013 (Reuters / Andrew Kravchenko)

                    U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Victoria Nuland (R) and U.S. Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt (2nd R) distribute bread to riot police near Independence square in Kiev December 11, 2013 (Reuters / Andrew Kravchenko)

                    When it comes to invasions, President Obama has a lesson or two to teach Russians.
                    “We did not claim or annex Iraq’s territory. We did not grab its resources for our own gain. Instead, we ended our war and left Iraq to its people in a fully sovereign Iraqi state that can make decisions about its own future.“

                    This sovereign nation has only token sovereignty over Kurd territories in the north. Terrorists roam free in some rural areas and want to carve an Islamist state of it. And deaths from car bombs are more frequent then deaths from car accidents. A decade of statecraft later, at least 7,800 civilians and 1,000 troops killed in 2013 alone. Mission accomplished.

                    ecurity officials and rescue workers collect evidence at the site of a bomb blast on outskirts of Peshawar March 14, 2014 (Reuters / Fayaz Aziz)

                    ecurity officials and rescue workers collect evidence at the site of a bomb blast on outskirts of Peshawar March 14, 2014 (Reuters / Fayaz Aziz)

                    Obama mentioned another interventionist success story in his speech, that of Kosovo.
                    “NATO only intervened after the people of Kosovo were systematically brutalized and killed for years.”

                    Good point. Of course the alliance didn't bother to get a UN Security Council mandate and bombed the Serbian capital, killing hundreds of civilians in the process, in violation of international law. The same law which Obama accuses Russia of violating with Crimea. But that was even before Bush Jr., so who cares?

                    The Yugoslav Army Headquarters building hasn't been rebuilt after being damaged by cruises missiles in April 1999 during NATO's bombing of Serbia over Kosovo. Belgrade (AFP Photo)

                    The Yugoslav Army Headquarters building hasn't been rebuilt after being damaged by cruises missiles in April 1999 during NATO's bombing of Serbia over Kosovo. Belgrade (AFP Photo)
                    “Kosovo only left Serbia after a referendum was organized – not outside the boundaries of international law but in careful cooperation with the United Nations, and with Kosovo’s neighbors.”

                    That’s Mr. Obama’s version. What really happened was that Kosovo’s parliament unilaterally declared independence from Serbia and later adopted a constitution on Feb. 15, 2008. On the same day, the US and four European states recognized Kosovo as an independent country.

                    Ah, right, the referendum. Maybe President Obama meant that 1991 referendum (deemed 'illegal' by Serbia), whose results were recognized by only one country, Albania?

                    A woman is reflected in a mirror as she casts her ballot during voting in a referendum at a polling station in Simferopol March 16, 2014 (Reuters)

                    A woman is reflected in a mirror as she casts her ballot during voting in a referendum at a polling station in Simferopol March 16, 2014 (Reuters)
                    “We are confronted with the belief among some that bigger nations can bully smaller ones to get their way — that recycled maxim that might somehow makes right.”

                    World's biggest bully preaching peace and love. And its flying killing robots are the messengers. And guards in secret CIA prisons are the keepers. And the NSA keeps an eye on those who won't listen.

                    As the Romans used to say, quod licet Jovi, non licet bovi (what is allowed to Jupiter is not allowed to the bull). Well, there are no gods sitting in Washington, and some people just don't want to be treated as cattle.

                    President Obama's key speech in Brussels on Ukraine and attempts to isolate Russia appears to be an exercise of omission, mutually-exclusive statements and unveiled double standards.
                    Стравот на Атина од овој Македонец одел до таму што го нарекле „Страшниот Чакаларов“ „гркоубиец“ и „крвожеден комитаџија“.

                    „Ако знам дека тука тече една капка грчка крв, јас сега би ја отсекол целата рака и би ја фрлил в море.“ Васил Чакаларов

                    Comment

                    • George S.
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2009
                      • 10116

                      koovo should never been recognized.I suppose the payback may come later with Russian troops in the Balkans to aid Serbia.We saw how the serbs are helping the Russians .THe Albanians inmacedonia want to link up with Kosovo sooner than later & that will produce a greater Albania.I'm shocked the west has played right into the shiptars hands.The west is easily gullible & supplied the shptars with arms training & even amnesty for their shiptar army.Next war they guarantee we are easy pickings with tanks & armoured carriers maybe apache helicopters.
                      "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                      GOTSE DELCEV

                      Comment

                      • Soldier of Macedon
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 13670

                        Looks like the next phase of pro-Russian forces is beginning to take shape and reveal itself.

                        Ukraine accused Russia's President, Vladimir Putin, of orchestrating the seizure of state buildings in three eastern Ukrainian cities by pro-Russia protesters, in a further escalation of tensions between Kiev and Moscow.

                        Pro-Russian protesters seize state buildings in Ukraine, April 7, 2014

                        Donetsk: Ukraine accused Russia's President Vladimir Putin of orchestrating the seizure of state buildings in two eastern Ukrainian cities by pro-Russia protesters on Sunday, in a further escalation of tension between Kiev and Moscow. The protesters seized the regional government building in the industrial hub of Donetsk and security service offices in nearby Luhansk, waving Russian flags and demanding a Crimea-style referendum on joining Russia.

                        Interior Minister Arsen Avakov said police would restore order in both cities without recourse to violence. He accused Ukraine's ousted president Viktor Yanukovych, whose political base was in Donetsk, of conspiring with Putin to fuel tensions. "Putin and Yanukovych ordered and paid for the latest wave of separatist disorder in the east of the country. The people who have gathered are not many but they are very aggressive," Mr Avakov said in a statement on his Facebook page. "The situation will come back under control without bloodshed. That is the order to law enforcement officers, it's true. But the truth is that no one will peacefully tolerate the lawlessness of provocateurs," he said. Ukraine's Acting President Oleksandr Turchynov called an emergency meeting of security chiefs in Kiev and took personal control of the situation, the parliamentary press service said.

                        Mainly Russian-speaking eastern Ukraine has seen a sharp rise in tensions since Mr Yanukovych's ouster in February and the installation of a pro-European government in Kiev. Branding the new Kiev government illegitimate, Russia has annexed Ukraine's Crimea region citing threats to its Russian-speaking majority, a move that has sparked the biggest standoff between Moscow and the West since the end of the Cold War. More than 1000 people protested in Donetsk on Sunday before breaking into the regional administration building where they hung a Russian flag from a second floor balcony, a Reuters witness said. Protesters outside cheered and chanted "Russia!".

                        In the Luhansk protest, Ukrainian television said three people were injured. Police could not confirm the report. Talking to the crowd over a loudspeaker, protest leaders in Donetsk said they wanted regional lawmakers to convene an emergency meeting to discuss a vote on joining Russia like the one in Ukraine's Crimea region that led to its annexation. "Deputies of the regional council should convene before midnight and take the decision to carry out a referendum," said one of the protest leaders without identifying himself.

                        A local internet portal streamed footage from the seized building, showing people freely entering and exiting. Soviet-era music was being played over loud speakers outside. The building houses the offices of regional governor Serhiy Taruta, a steel baron recently appointed by Kiev to rule a region with close economic and historic ties to Russia. "Around 1000 people took part [in the storming of the building], mostly young people with their faces covered," said Ihor Dyomin, a spokesman for Donetsk local police. "Around 100 people are now inside the building and are barricading the building," he added.

                        In Luhansk, Reuters television showed images of hundreds of people outside the state security services building in Luhansk and a policeman in riot armour being carried away on a stretcher. Ukrainian television said the Luhansk protesters were demanding the release of people detained by security services in recent days as well as a referendum on joining Russia. "We don't want to join the EU, we don't want to join NATO. We want our children to live in peace," an unnamed woman told Ukraine's Channel Five in Luhansk.

                        Ukraine's state security services said on Saturday they had detained 15 people in Luhansk suspected of planning to overthrow the authorities and had confiscated hundreds of rifles, grenades and petrol bombs. Pro-Russian demonstrators have held rallies in several eastern Ukrainian cities in recent weeks, not far from the border with Russia, where Moscow has assembled tens of thousands of troops.
                        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                        Comment

                        • George S.
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2009
                          • 10116

                          only a couple days ago I heard putin say that he is withdrawing Russian forces only to find more forces are sent in.He isn't taking any chances.
                          "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                          GOTSE DELCEV

                          Comment

                          • Carlin
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2011
                            • 3332

                            Stephen Cohen on Russia Ukraine Crisis "We are Well Into a Cold War"

                            Stephen Cohen on Russia Ukraine Crisis "We are Well Into a Cold War" - YouTube

                            Target: Ukraine -- How foreign intervention is tearing the country apart

                            Target: Ukraine -- How foreign intervention is tearing the country apart - YouTube

                            Comment

                            • Soldier of Macedon
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 13670

                              Things seem to be going from bad to worse for Ukraine.

                              Divisions have deepened in Ukraine's third-largest city as pro-Russian militants attacked a police station in Odessa and freed 67 of their allies.

                              Police station attack in Odessa raises stakes in Ukraine crisis May 6, 2014 - 12:19AM

                              Donetsk: Divisions have deepened in Ukraine's third-largest city as pro-Russian militants attacked a police station in Odessa and freed 67 of their allies, while pro-Ukrainian activists gathered with sticks and clubs and vowed to defend the southern city from the kind of takeovers that have occurred in the east of the country. The spread of the violence to Odessa has raised the stakes dramatically in the Ukraine crisis, bringing the conflict between pro-Russian and pro-Ukrainian forces to the country's most important port.

                              Russian President Vladimir Putin and German Chancellor Angela Merkel spoke by telephone at the weekend, the Kremlin said. Mr Putin told Dr Merkel that he wanted a direct dialogue between Ukraine's acting government in Kiev and "representatives of the south-eastern regions of the country". In a potentially significant diplomatic move, the Kremlin also said that the head of the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe, Didier Burkhalter, would visit Moscow on Wednesday. The Kremlin has said it would like the OSCE to head negotiations.

                              Sunday's mayhem occurred two days after 46 people died in clashes and a fire in the city. The fact that most of those victims were pro-Russian activists has given their supporters a new, raw sense of grievance. Hundreds of pro-Russian militants took part in the attack on the police station on Sunday, aimed at releasing people arrested after Friday's fighting, according to witnesses and reporters on the scene. Police gave in and released the prisoners, sparking cheers and chants of "Odessa is a Russian town", witnesses said.

                              Odessa lies between the Crimean Peninsula, which Russia annexed in March, and the pro-Russian separatist region of Transnistria in Moldova, where Russia has a peacekeeping force. Concerns are mounting that Russia aims to take effective control of a huge swath of eastern and southern Ukraine, right up to Transnistria. While Odessa has a sizable ethnic Russian minority - around 30 per cent of the population - polls have found that most residents want to remain part of Ukraine.

                              Ukraine's interim prime minister, visiting Odessa, accused Russia of fomenting the unrest two days earlier. Calling it a "tragedy for all Ukraine", Arseniy Yatsenyuk also blamed a corrupt police force for failing to prevent the violence. He tasked prosecutors with "finding all instigators, all organisers and all those that under Russian leadership began a deadly attack on Ukraine and Odessa". There were signs that backers of the pro-Western government in Kiev were not going to give up control of their city without a fight. Dozens gathered on a main street carrying their own shields and clubs.

                              "We are never going to lose our city of Odessa to any lovers of the Russian tricolour flag," local leader Zoya Kozanzhy said. "Those who don't like Ukraine can go to Russia." She said that pro-Ukrainian activists in Luhansk, Donetsk and other cities under separatist control "should organise their own movements and win the war". "Both sides of this conflict have victims now, so it will take us many years before we go back to a peaceful life," she said. Ukrainian troops have surrounded Slaviansk and Kramatorsk, two rebel-held cities in the east, near the Russian border. But the soldiers appeared to hold back from a declared campaign to recapture the towns.

                              In Donetsk, another pro-Russian stronghold, at least 1000 people marched through town chanting "Odessa will not be forgiven". "There is no Ukraine; it was a stillborn child," said one woman in her 50s as a Ukrainian flag was burned. Mr Yatsenyuk dismissed Russian accusations that his government was provoking bloodshed in the east with its military offensive. "The process of dialogue had begun, only it was drowned out by the sound of shooting from automatic rifles of Russian production," he said.
                              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                              Comment

                              • makedonche
                                Senior Member
                                • Oct 2008
                                • 3242

                                Are the Macedonians doing anything to help? Lest we forget who came to our aid during the 2001 conflict!
                                On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

                                Comment

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