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  • George S.
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 10116

    Where did we lose our country? – To whom does Macedonia Belong?

    Where did we lose our country? – To whom does Macedonia Belong?



    By Risto Stefov

    [email protected]

    February 6, 2011



    If at the start of the 19th century Macedonia was occupied by the Ottomans and was seen as not belonging to the Ottomans after 600 years of occupation, then to whom did Macedonia belong?



    Did it belong to Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria and Albania? Based on what legitimate grounds? Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria and Albania were modern countries either just created or in the case of Albania, about to be created! So, considering how Macedonia was to be “divided” according to pre-Balkan War agreements and how it actually was divided first during the First Balkan War, second during the Second Balkan War, by the 1913 Treaty of Bucharest and finally by the Treaty of Versailles, is proof that there was absolutely no legitimate basis for its division! It was simply an arbitrary division; history is very clear on that!



    So if Macedonia did not belong to the Ottomans, Greeks, Serbians, Bulgarians or Albanians; to whom did it belong?



    The most logical conclusion that can be reached from this is that Macedonia belonged and still belongs to the Macedonian people, the people who were found to live in Macedonia prior to the eviction of the Ottomans!



    There are some Greeks who now claim that 85% of the Macedonian territory occupied by Greece today is “ancient Macedonia” and belongs exclusively to Greece. Greeks nowadays are making statements of fact to that effect and conclude that the rest of historic and geographical Macedonia was “never” part of ancient Macedonia, therefore it cannot be called Macedonia and the people living there cannot possibly be Macedonians. In other words, according to some Greeks, no major Macedonian territories outside of Greek occupied Macedonia were “part” of ancient Macedonia.



    No Greek up to this day, however, has specified “when” in time this was and who ruled Macedonia at that time!



    Just to clear things up a little, Macedonia was never static from prehistoric times (800 BC) to the fall of the Ptolemaic Empire (40 BC). In 800 BC Macedonia was a dot on the map and during Alexander’s time it grew to encompass the entire known world! So unless the Greeks come up with a date and name of a ruler, they are wasting our time with their bogus claims!



    Even if the Greeks do come up with a date and a name, then what will make us believe that “this and only this” was ancient Macedonia?



    When I think of ancient Macedonia, I think of the period from about 600 BC to about 40 BC when Macedonia grew from a small landlocked tribal kingdom, found near present day Kostur and Lerin, to a super power unmatched to this day, encompassing the entire Balkans north to the Danube River, south to the tip of the Peloponnesus, west to the Adriatic Sea and east to the Hellespont and this is only on the European continent! So which Macedonia are the Greeks talking about?



    Allow me to elaborate, in this newest Greek claim, in the ever evolving historic Modern Greek set of claims and counter claims, everything is fluid, made fluid to fit the Modern Greek political agenda. In the hands of the Greeks history has become a tool, a weapon which has nothing to do with reality and plenty to do with Greece’s desperate attempts to hang on to Macedonia and to its fake identity by any means possible.



    As I have said many times before, the Modern Greeks are a modern construct which has nothing to do with ancient times! Creating a modern country and calling it Greece or Hellas and taking its Albanian, Vlach, Slav, Turkish, Latin and Roma inhabitants and calling them Greeks or Ellines and then teaching them in school how to speak an antiquated dead language neither makes the country “ancient Greece” or a “continuation of ancient Greece” nor the people “Greeks” or “the descendents of the ancient Greeks from 2,600 years ago! So given that these people cannot possibly be a continuation of the ancient Greeks and they are not even real Greek, then what gives them the right to lay claim to the ancient Greek heritage, let alone to the far detached ancient Macedonian heritage?



    Greece today uses “pure myth” to justify its existence and this pure myth exists at the expense of the various ethnic identities and cultures which were sacrificed to support the myth! Among those ethnic identities and cultures sacrificed are also the Macedonians.



    The tragic part about the Macedonians is that both their country and their people were sacrificed four ways to support four separate “national myths”. In other words Macedonia and the Macedonian people were separated four ways between 1912 and 1919 and each was given an alien identity very different from the others! Families, even brothers and sisters, were divided by the artificial borders erected by these four countries inside Macedonia and on one side members of the same family were forced to accept “Greek” as their identity, on another side they were forced to become Serbian, on a third side they were forced to become Bulgarian and on the fourth side they were forced to become Albanian! Now please tell me how that is possible and what rational mind can wrap itself around this and truly comprehend what has happened here?



    Even though Macedonians were forced to assume alien identities, deep inside they could not accept them. They could not accept themselves being Greeks on one side and close family members being Serbian, Bulgarian, or Albanian on the other side. So to remain sane and loyal to their families, many continued to exist as Macedonians in secret.



    The constant torment, denigration, humiliation and refusal to accept Macedonians as equal members of Greek, Serbian, Bulgarian and Albanian society made the Macedonians more stubborn and more difficult to assimilate.



    Those who fled these terrible countries and found sanctuary in tolerant countries like Canada, the USA and Australia reverted back to being Macedonians. Many even changed their names back to their original Macedonian name. Those who accepted the fate set upon them by their occupiers and oppressors became the “Grkomani, Serbomani, Bulgaromani and Albanomani”, otherwise known as the “traitors” who rejected their own identity. In Greece, they, along with the Christian Turkish colonists imported from Asia Minor during the 1920’s, are today the so-called “Greek-Macedonians” and the inheritors of the “entire” Macedonian heritage, of which Greeks speak so proudly!



    Greeks cannot even stomach calling these people “Macedonians”, so they call them “Greek-Macedonians” a name that cannot be trusted but must be kept very close to the chest of Greece! They are called “Greek-Macedonians” not because they are “ethnic Greeks” (only if such an identity existed) or “ethnic Macedonians” but only because they happen to be “geographically” located in “Greek-Macedonia”! According to the same Greeks, these people are Greeks who live in Macedonia.



    Given the “Greek side” of the Macedonian story then where does this all leave the non-Greek-Macedonians, i.e. the real Macedonian people living in Macedonia? For example, those who were tormented, jailed, killed, exiled and driven out of their fatherland through economic hardship? Those whose names were changed by force and whose properties were confiscated by the Greek authorities? Those, including the 28,000 children exiled during the Greek Civil War, who are not allowed to return to their homeland and place of birth, not even to visit, because they remain true to their Macedonian identity? What about these people? Where do they fit into the Greek plan?



    But of course these are the “real” Macedonians that Greece does not want you to know about and that time and again has claimed “they do not exist”. These Macedonians are a figment of Tito’s imagination, they are the brain child of the Communists, they are “Slavs”, “Bulgarians” and every other derogatory term in the bad book; but according to the same Greeks, “are definitely not Macedonians”.



    In other words “if they don’t fit in Greece’s political agenda they cannot possibly be Macedonians”. Unfortunately this Greek “courtesy”, as of the last 20 years or so, has been extended to include the “Former Serbian occupied Territories of Macedonia”, now known to the world, except to the Greeks, as the Republic of Macedonia!



    Even people outside of Greece now cannot be Macedonians so that Greece can continue to live a lie and enjoy its mythical identity created for it by a number of “deranged” Philhellenes who saw themselves fit to recreate a 2,600 year old dead civilization out of the 19th century savages who lived on those lands and subsisted by robbing and murdering one another.



    If history is so important to Greece then why are Greeks ignoring “historical facts” in favour of “dodgy arguments and propaganda”?



    If Greeks wish to “analyze” history why don’t they look at when Greece was created? And by that I mean Greece’s “real” narrative not the current myth. Examine how Greece expanded and swallowed and destroyed entire cultures through its “Hellenization” process. Analyze how Greece acquired 51% of the Macedonian territories in 1912, 1913 which today it calls “exclusively” Greek since ancient times?



    If Greece is all for examining history then why not examine how Greece the country was created, what kind of people lived in Greece before it was created, what language the people who lived there spoke, where did these people come from and when, before they settled in Greece. And finally if history is so important why not examine how the Modern Greek people came to acquire their so-called “Greek national language”?



    While you are at it, why not examine the Treaties Greece signed and counter signed with Serbia and Bulgaria, both open and secret, on “how to divide Macedonia” prior to its invasion, occupation and partition? Where was your “ancient Macedonia” claim then?



    Why jump back to ancient times when we have plenty to “air out” right now in the last century or so?



    Greece would rather “cling on” to vague issues like “who was who” 2,000 years ago than discuss current and burning issues because when it comes to recent history Greece has no ground to stand on!



    No matter, willing or unwilling on Greece’s part, the Macedonian and Greek people, the ones who Greek authorities have lied to for generations, will one day learn the truth. They will learn who and what they are and are not! There is plenty of evidence out there and if I was able to find it so will they. Lies and propaganda can and will only go so far but when authorities are painted into a corner they become desperate and need to invent new lies to cover for old ones. At times like these their castle of cards will come tumbling down!



    To be continued.
    "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
    GOTSE DELCEV

    Comment

    • George S.
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2009
      • 10116

      it was disgusting the way macedonia was divided amongst the four countries,But who does it belong to it belongs to itself that is the macedonian people.
      "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
      GOTSE DELCEV

      Comment

      • George S.
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2009
        • 10116

        Where did we lose our country? – The people

        Where did we lose our country? – The people



        By Risto Stefov

        [email protected]

        February 13, 2011



        As I said in a previous week’s article, Macedonia belongs to the Macedonian people!



        But who exactly are these Macedonian people?



        Greeks claim that “there are no Macedonian people in an ethnic sense”, “Macedonians do not exist”! The people that live in geographic Macedonia are “geographical Macedonians” or non-ethnic Macedonians who live in geographic Macedonia!



        According to the same Greeks, the so-called “geographical Macedonians” now live in four parts of Macedonia and belong to a variety of ethnicities. Those who live in the Greek part of Macedonia are “Greeks”. Those who live in the Bulgarian part of Macedonia are “Bulgarians” and those who live in the Albanian part of Macedonia are “Albanians”. However those who live in the Republic of Macedonia, formerly the part of Macedonia that was occupied by Serbia, according to the same Greeks, are “Slavs”, “Albanians”, “Bulgarians”, “Serbians”, “Turks”, “Vlachs”, “Greeks”, “Roma”, “Jews” and an admixture of other ethnicities. Even though very few Greeks were registered in the last Republic of Macedonia census and those who were registered were businessmen who had recently settled in the Republic of Macedonia, Greeks still insist that over 100,000 Greeks live in Pelagonia alone. Pelagonia is a region which, according to the same Greeks, belonged to ancient Macedonia and since ancient Macedonia belongs to Modern Greece then naturally they are Greeks! Is Greece making this claim so that some day it can annex Pelagonia for itself? Or is Greece doing this to cause trouble for the Republic of Macedonia by demanding human rights for a non existent “Greek” identity?



        Now if we go back about 85 years we will find that, according to Serbian censuses, only Serbians lived in the region that today we call the Republic of Macedonia!



        If however we examine current censuses taken since the Republic of Macedonia became independent we discover that those people whom Serbia had registered as “Serbians” now declare themselves Macedonians. Now how is that possible?



        There are two possible explanations;



        First, Serbia fudged its statistics and registered the Macedonians as Serbians while the people had always been Macedonian.



        Second, the people were “Serbians” about 85 years ago but became Macedonians with Tito’s help after the Serbian occupied part of Macedonia became autonomous in 1945.



        You can decide for yourself which of the above explanations is more plausible and realistic!



        So instead of agreeing or disagreeing with the two options above the Greeks have introduced yet another option! Now Greeks claim that Macedonians never lived in the region of Macedonia where the Republic of Macedonia is today and the people living there are “Slavs” who settled the region in the 6th century AD.



        If that were true then why have none of the early 20th century censuses produced by Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria and others “ever” mentioned the term “Slav” in their census reports? Where did these “Slavs” come from?



        After Macedonia was annexed by Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria an agreement was reached between the three to erase the Macedonian identity and everything that was Macedonian and replace it with a Greek, Serbian and Bulgarian identity. So everyone and everything that was found in Greek occupied Macedonia that was of Macedonian origin was changed to fit the new politically motivated Greek agenda! For example, all the Macedonian people’s first and last names were changed to Greek. All place names including cities, towns, villages, regions, lakes, rivers and mountains were changed to Greek. The Macedonian language was banned, prohibited from being spoken and was replaced by the Modern Greek state imposed language. Everything that was found to contain Macedonian writing, including icons in churches, headstones in graveyards, stones on public buildings, signs, bibles and books were destroyed.



        Even though all demographic statistics generated during the early years of the 20th century were contradictory, forged and skewed to fit the political agendas of Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria, all three countries made sure to never include the word “Macedonia” or “Macedonian” in their census reports! That was not because Macedonians did not exist but because the three states and their patrons wanted to forever eradicate everything that was Macedonian so that Macedonia and the Macedonian people would forever be erased from history!



        If there was no other identity besides “Serbians” in the Serbian occupied part of Macedonia 85 years ago then where did these “Slavs” and “Skopjans” that the Greeks speak of come from? Did something happen in history which we missed altogether? Did a new group of people arrive in the Republic of Macedonia of whom we are not aware?



        As you can see from the arguments and questions I presented above, the Greeks are NOT interested in history or in the reality of what happened in the past. Their only interest is to create confusion and sidestep their responsibilities because they don’t want to recognize an authentic Macedonian identity and accept the fallout and consequences that will result from it! Unfortunately Greeks will do anything, except the right thing, including lie and cheat, in order to protect their interests and promote their political agenda!



        And seriously, are we considering changing the name of our fatherland for these people?



        Now let us take a step back and review the demographic situation prior to Macedonia’s partition. If say 67% (1994) of the population in the Republic of Macedonia today is Macedonian where did it come from? A reasonable assumption to make is that it must have always been Macedonian at least as far back as 1900. Then how can we be sure of that?



        We can be sure of that because in 1903 history recorded a Macedonian Uprising against the Ottoman Empire. The Uprising was a massive, organized, nation-wide insurrection involving the entire Macedonian population in the entire region of geographic Macedonia including the later Greek, Serbian, Bulgarian and Albanian occupied parts of Macedonia! There is enough historic evidence to prove that Macedonians organized, initiated and carried out this Uprising intending to drive out the Ottomans and create a Modern Macedonian State that was to include the entire region of geographic Macedonia.



        Now given that the artificial post 1913 borders did not exist in 1903, and no borders existed inside Macedonia since Roman times, we can safely assume that approximately the same percentage of Macedonians existed all throughout geographical Macedonia, including the regions that later were occupied by Greece, Bulgaria and Albania.



        Now if the Serbians lied about the demographics in Macedonia to protect their interests then what makes us certain that the Greeks, Bulgarians and Albanians didn’t do the same? Both Greeks and Bulgarians claim that “no Macedonians” live in Macedonia! Such assertions should certainly cast some doubt on the Greek and Bulgarian claims in view of Serbia’s claims and the reality today?



        Now let me ask you this. How can there be 67% Macedonians on one side of an arbitrarily erected artificial border and 0% Macedonians on the other? Was there not even one single extended family spread out in remote villages on both sides of the border? Allow me to ask the question another way! What is the probability that people living in close proximity never intermingled and moved around in a region that existed borderless for at least 2,000 years?



        As you can see Greece and Bulgaria’s “absolute” claims can easily be disputed and if the Serbians lied about the Macedonian demographics then so did the Greeks and Bulgarians!



        This leads us to the next question! What happened to the Macedonians in Greek and Bulgarian occupied Macedonia? The answer can be found in Greece’s latest assertions regarding the Republic of Macedonia. According to most Greeks, including those in authority, those people who registered themselves as Macedonians in the Republic of Macedonia’s census were not really Macedonians but “Slavs”! So even today in view of the fact that people voluntarily declared themselves “Macedonian” in an open and democratic census, Greece still insists that Macedonians do not exist!



        What does that tell us?



        It tells us a number of things! First, if Greece now admits that Macedonians exist in the Republic of Macedonia it has to admit that it has lied to us in the past.



        Second, if Macedonians exist in the Republic of Macedonia then Greece will have to admit that Macedonians exist in Greece as per my earlier arguments.



        Third, if Greece admits that Macedonians live in Greece it will have to recognize them and afford them their human rights as well as make reparations to damages committed against them.



        Given that Macedonia was violently and unlawfully invaded, occupied and partitioned there is a good chance that the Macedonian people as well as suing for reparations might request world assistance for reunifying Macedonia. This is Greece’s worst fear; losing its part of Macedonia.



        Before ending I want to extend my demographic arguments to the rest of Greece. If it is proven that the population in Greek occupied Macedonia is not what Greece claims it to be then what does that say about the population in the rest of Greece? For example Thrace, Thessaly, Epirus, etc., none of which are of interest to me except for Thrace! Since when was Thrace Greek?



        If this entire region was once borderless for over 2,000 years how can we be sure that it is all inhabited by Greeks, descendents of the ancient Greeks? In other words, how can we have pure Greeks living in Epirus, on the eastern side of the Greek-Albanian border erected for the first time in the late 1800’s, and pure Albanians living on the western side! Also how can we have pure Greeks and Muslim Greeks living in Thrace, on the south side of the Greek-Bulgarian border erected for the first time in early 1900’s, and pure Bulgarians living on the north side?



        Need I ask any more?



        To be continued.
        "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
        GOTSE DELCEV

        Comment

        • George S.
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2009
          • 10116

          I found this to be an interesting article.
          "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
          GOTSE DELCEV

          Comment

          • Risto the Great
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 15658

            Stefov's "From the Once Classified Files"

            Balkan States – Report 1

            December 11, 1944



            Mr. Leeper to Mr. Eden

            Athens 24th November, 1944



            4. The problem of the Western Macedonian Bulgarophones, who are briefly mentioned in paragraph 7 of the paper, also remains serious and formidable, in spite of its limited dimensions. This minority, which extends through the region from Florina and Kastoria through Siatista to the plain of Yannitsa, has proved exceedingly unreliable during the war. Satisfactory data are not available, but it appears from events during the occupation that the dissatisfied minority must be considerably larger than is suggested by Greek census figures; and it is certain that successive Greek Governments have shirked facing the problem and have preferred to persuade even themselves that it did not exist. On the assumptions (1) that the policy of His Majesty’s Government is to treat Greece as the most important Balkan country from the point of view of British interests, and to support those elements in Greece which are most stably pro-British and (2) that Greece does not wish to belong to a Balkan Federation in which there would be a large Slav majority, it would appear to follow that Greece had better not contain any Slav minorities at all. And since the amputation of the Slav areas in Western Macedonia and their annexation to a Slav Federation is a practical impossibility and would also be economically disastrous for Greece. It would follow that, difficult as it may be, a home must be found for perhaps 120,000 Slav Macedonians north of the Greek frontiers of 1941.
            The constant reference to Bulgarophones is a new one to me. But the information in this correspondence is priceless.

            My goodness, take a look at Britain's concerns. A few short years later the USA hopped in for a slice of the action.

            ... Even the Poms didn't believe the Greek census figures.
            Risto the Great
            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

            Comment

            • George S.
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2009
              • 10116

              RTG From greece's point of view Slavophone,Bulgarophone,serbophone these are terminologies to apply to macedonians whom they considered to be less than they thought.When it talked about macedonians that's how they spoke of them,

              Here is Report 1
              Balkan States – Report 1
              December 11, 1944

              Mr. Leeper to Mr. Eden
              Athens 24th November, 1944

              Sir,

              I HAVE the honour to submit the following comments on Research Department paper of the 26th August, 1944, on the subject of Macedonia. (1)

              2. The two formidable Macedonian problems in which Greece is concerned are: (a) that of Greek relations with the Slav world as represented by Serbia and Bulgaria, both of whom must be expected in the immediate future to be under strong Russian influence and to have Russian sympathy for their aspirations; and b) that of the surviving Bulgarophone minority in Western Macedonia.

              3. The former problem turns chiefly on that of Serbian and Bulgarian access to the Aegean, the subject discussed in paragraphs 35-40 and 41-43 of the paper under reference. There is clearly no case (or handing over to Slav Powers any part of the North Aegean coast, which in 1940 had nowhere anything but an infinitesimal minority of Slav inhabitants. On the other hand, the strategic position of Greece here, even with Turkish backing, is very weak, vis-à-vis the Slav world, so that even in her own interests it behooves Greece to come to terms with her northern neighbours. The only possible solution-however difficult in practice under present conditions-seems to be that referred to in paragraph 51, namely, a return to, and preferably an extension of, the system of free zones. A Serbian free zone at Salonica is not difficult, but a Bulgarian zone at Kavala, or even at the outlying Alexandrupolis, would probably be out of the question for a considerable period to come, in view of the passions aroused by the atrocious conduct of the Bulgarians in Northern Greece since 1941. It remains, nevertheless, a Greek no less than a Bulgarian interest that Bulgaria's desire for access to an Aegean port should be satisfied so far as possible; since otherwise Bulgaria's southward political aspiration, which are now largely artificial, will be kept alive by the real and continual irritation of an unsatisfied economic need. (How far this need might be met by the alternative of a free zone at Durazzo is a matter for separate study.) It may further be pointed out that the grant of free zones at her northern ports would, in fact, be of direct financial benefit to Greece herself through the revivifying influence of increased trade on the life of those ports in general and through the restoration of a natural degree of intercourse between these Greek ports and their Slav hinterland.

              4. The problem of the Western Macedonian Bulgarophones, who are briefly mentioned in paragraph 7 of the paper, also remains serious and formidable, in spite of its limited dimensions. This minority, which extends through the region from Florina and Kastoria through Siatista to the plain of Yannitsa, has proved exceedingly unreliable during the war. Satisfactory data are not available, but it appears from events during the occupation that the dissatisfied minority must be considerably larger than is suggested by Greek census figures; and it is certain that successive Greek Governments have shirked facing the problem and have preferred to persuade even themselves that it did not exist. On the assumptions (1) that the policy of His Majesty’s Government is to treat Greece as the most important Balkan country from the point of view of British interests, and to support those elements in Greece which are most stably pro-British and (2) that Greece does not wish to belong to a Balkan Federation in which there would be a large Slav majority, it would appear to follow that Greece had better not contain any Slav minorities at all. And since the amputation of the Slav areas in Western Macedonia and their annexation to a Slav Federation is a practical impossibility and would also be economically disastrous for Greece. It would follow that, difficult as it may be, a home must be found for perhaps 120,000 Slav Macedonians north of the Greek frontiers of 1941.

              5. I have sent copies of this dispatch to the Resident Minister at Caserta, to Mr. Houstoun-Boswall at Sofia and to Mr. Broad at Bari.

              I have, &c. R. A. Leeper.

              (1) See “Balkan States” print section, 26th August, Section 6.
              A Statement of the Bulgarian Idea of Unification as the Motive of Bulgarian Foreign and Internal Policy

              April 5, 1944

              No. 2782 (R-2585)
              American Consulate General, Istanbul, Turkey

              SUBJECT: A Statement of the Bulgarian Idea of Unification as the Motive of Bulgarian Foreign and Internal Policy

              Sir:

              I have the honor to present below a leading article from the Bulgarian newspaper ZORA of March 28, 1944, in which Mr. N. Kolarov, Editor of the Macedonian newspaper TSELOKUPNA BULGARIA, gives his view of the fundamental significance of the idea of unification in relation to Bulgarian foreign and internal policy.

              The writer reviews the development of the movement in Bulgaria inspired by the idea of national unification in the nineteenth century, especially as it came to a head in the church settlement of 1870--which achieved the setting up of the Bulgarian Exarchate in Constantinople- and the Treaties of San Stefano and Berlin in 1878. He also refers to the long continued struggle that has been carried on in Bulgaria since the Treaty of San Stefano. Ethnographically the writer lays primary emphasis upon the areas of Bulgarian habitation as indicated in the delimitation of the territorial limits of the exarchate and the limits of the Treaty of San Stefano.

              The writer sets forth no new ideas on this subject. The article merely emphasizes the fact that the idea of unification has been a powerful force working through the whole period of Bulgarian modern history and never more powerfully than today.

              For the student of Balkan affairs the article is important in that it is another reminder of the fact that this powerful well organized movement and this profound sentiment must be taken fully into account in the settlement of the Balkan problem at the close of this war. As long as great numbers of Bulgarians live outside the frontiers of their country this struggle unification will go on, -for the Bulgarians are a determined and resourceful people in waging this kind of struggle. The aspiration for national self-determination and unification was in thorough accord with democratic sentiment in the nineteenth century, when it was born. The idea of unification was quite natural and commendable. The heroism of the people primarily concerned in carrying on the struggle, especially in Macedonia, for relief from the terrible conditions under which they lived was heroic. The literature which originated in the struggle is a fundamental part of Bulgarian literature and a part of the education of all the youth of country. Hence the ideal will not die.

              The fatal element in connection with the whole movement, and that which has caused it to be wrecked in the twentieth century, was the unwise political methods adopted for its achievement, and the uncompromising attitude of those leaders in charge of national interests at critical moments, primarily in the spring and summer of 1913. In the bitter enmities and struggles between the Balkan states Bulgaria gave her enemies the opportunity of getting the drop on her, an opportunity which they were not slow to take advantage of; and so by her own lack of wisdom and political skill she wrecked the edifice which had been built up by so much suffering and bloodshed. The continuation in 1941 and since of this policy of political short-sightedness seems again destined to leave Bulgaria naked to her enemies; and to her natural enemies she has deliberately added Great Britain and the United states.

              The writer of the article presented below, Mr. Kolarev, does not seem to be aware of the critical conditions which his country faces at this moment, for he writes of successful resistance to enemies without seeming to know that the forces gradually being built against his country are irresistible. He would do better, therefore, to devote his energies to devising by political skill some new alignment for his country that might save something from impending wreckage of Bulgaria's long cherished hopes.

              The article shows how the most intransigent Bulgarians are still thinking and writing in this the eleventh of hour of the war in the Balkans. In free translation this article reads as follows:

              In the Spirit of the Idea of Unification

              By N. Kolarov

              "Even for the first leaders of our renaissance, for whom the frontiers of Bulgaria were clearly defined, the unification idea, that is, the idea of the national unification of the Bulgarian nation was the fundamental and sacred aim of their efforts and of their epochal struggles. Later on in the political program of the revolutionary committee in Bucharest, the frontiers of the desired Bulgarian state were described with an accuracy which represents a true and understanding political view, especially when one bears in mind conditions at that time, conditions not only of patriotism crystal clear, but also showing an amazing ethnographical and historical knowledge.

              Against all attempts to attack or deliver a deadly blow to the idea of unification the Bulgarian nation as reacted with iron determination, on which these attempts have ingloriously failed. The greatness of our church struggle rested precisely in the fact that it was an uncompromising struggle insofar as the territorial demarcation of the projected Bulgarian church (exarchate) was concerned. The southern frontiers proposed by the Patriarch of Constantinople and located on the crest of Stara Planina was turned down with an indication which made it clear, once for all, that the Bulgarian nation would no longer admit of its being challenged and insulted by such proposals. The further attempts
              of Russian diplomacy and of the Sultan's government to satisfy the demands of our church further increased its territorial limits over which the jurisdiction of the Bulgarian church would extend, but which did not find favorable consideration in the Bulgarian nation. Our church leaders considered themselves satisfied only after the publication of the Sultan's decree, the tenth article of which opened for them the possibility, though under difficult conditions, of gathering all the territories with a Bulgarian population within the pale of the Bulgarian exarchate.

              The peace treaty of San Stefano found the Bulgarian nation with an enhanced national and political consciousness and a fully crystallized idea of the meaning of unification. This is why this treaty, which was considered to be the crown of Bulgarian aspirations and the just reward of Bulgarian suffering and sacrifices, since it brought to life a just settlement which bad long been buried for five centuries, awakened an indescribable enthusiasm in the grateful nation from the Danube to the Aegean Sea and from the Black Sea to the Albanian Mountains. This is why the unfortunate news, which came a few months later with reference to the Congress of Berlin, found not only a painful echo but also the firm determination to take up a new struggle in the name of the idea of unification. This struggle in our then enslaves provinces is well known to all. It is known to us by its powerful romanticism, its sacred victims and its legendary heroism. In this struggle the indomitable sons of the provinces and the noble sons of the free fatherland took part side by side dying in a fraternal embrace. It was Bulgarian in spirit, in ideology and in aims.

              The political elasticity with which the juridical principles, expressed in article twenty-three of the Treaty of Berlin, and then of the Treaty for the minorities, allowed and compelled the struggle to grow, because of the stipulations of the treaty and the international conditions at the time, from small to great achievements and gradually to attain the final Bulgarian solution of the Macedonian question, a fact which is used in vain today by some enemy countries, by ethnographical nihilists, for anti-Bulgarian purposes, for ideological combinations directed against them.

              The final and great aim of the Macedonian liberation movement has been the union of Macedonia with the free kingdom. Similarly the underlying motive of Bulgarian foreign policy from the date of the Congress of Berlin until today, as well as the fundamental impulse which induced the Bulgarian soldier to die at the four corners of the Peninsula in the wars of liberation, has been the unification of all Bulgarian provinces in one Bulgarian state.

              The idea of unification has also been the fundamental motive force of our national and political life. To the Balkan problem, insofar as we are concerned in it, we desire to give and shall give the solution which is in the spirit of our history, our wars of liberation, our national ideology. Any ideas which carry even the smallest sign or germ of separation or of particularism are equally alien to Bulgarians on both sides of the Osogovska Mountains. This is especially true today when we are living in a time of national and unitary states. We shall not seek our place in international life and establish the form of our state in accordance with the prescriptions of foreigners, the more so that these foreigners are known as our inexorable enemies. We shall build up our all Bulgarian state exclusively in the spirit of our idea of unification and Bulgaria will be a member of the international community ... a fully national and independent political entity." (ZORA -March 28, 1944.)

              Respectfully yours, Burton M, Berry, American Consul General
              To Department in original and hectograph
              Last edited by George S.; 02-19-2011, 03:32 AM. Reason: edit
              "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
              GOTSE DELCEV

              Comment

              • George S.
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2009
                • 10116

                Where did we lose our country? - Mistaken beliefs

                Where did we lose our country? - Mistaken beliefs



                By Risto Stefov

                [email protected]

                February 20, 2011



                In all the interviews that I conducted and stories I heard, Macedonians were great at relating their accounts the way they experienced them but very few could explain why these things happened to them and who and what was responsible for these life changing experiences. Unfortunately we also have a tendency to write things down the way we see, hear and experience them without analyzing or giving much thought as to why things happen the way they do.



                Another problem that I want to discuss with you is the tendency we have to react to things. We tend to react to external driven events more than we follow our own plans or designed strategies, if these even exist, regarding real or perceived issues that concern our national interests.



                In this article I will look into why things are done the way they are done and what can we do to improve them.



                One of the things that we should have done since Macedonia was illegally invaded, occupied and partitioned by Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria in 1912, 1913, and later by Albania, was to call the four partitioned parts of Macedonia “occupied” because from a Macedonian perspective that is exactly what they were. For example we should have called all of Macedonia “occupied Macedonian territories”. We should have called “Aegean Macedonia”, “Greek occupied Macedonian territories”, “Vardar Macedonia”, “Serbian occupied Macedonian territories”, “Pirin Macedonia”, “Bulgarian occupied Macedonian territories” and “Mala Prespa” and “Golo Brdo” “Albanian occupied Macedonian territories”. After it was freed, the “Serbian occupied part of Macedonia” became “a free part of Macedonia” which we named the Republic of Macedonia. This reflects more accurately our situation and the status of our fatherland.



                It is not too late however to do all this now because it still not only accurately reflects the reality of how we see our Macedonia but it will serve to inform the world that we as a people are not content with the situation in which we find ourselves. After 500 years of Ottoman rule the Balkans of the 19th century were still considered “occupied territories”, surely then after 100 years of Greek and Bulgarian occupation do we not have the right to call our fatherland occupied?



                Since there never was a proper or satisfactory census done to count how many Macedonians live in Greece we should not be referring to them as “the Macedonian minority living in Greece” (Greek occupied Macedonia). We can’t make that assumption because in reality we don’t know how many Macedonians live there.



                Clearly the vast majority of the population in Macedonia was Macedonian before Greece annexed these territories and clearly Greece willfully created the conditions that changed the demographics so why should we accept a fate imposed on us? If people invaded and occupied your home and they happened to be a larger number than your family would you accept the situation and surrender or would you fight to drive the intruders out? Would you call it their home because they were greater in number or your home because you are the owner?



                Regardless of whether we are a majority or a minority in our own homeland, the fact is that land which belonged to the Macedonian people was forcibly taken away from them. In other words the Greeks stole those lands from the Macedonians. This is the picture Macedonians need to see, not only for themselves but for the rest of the world. Because this is the reality of the situation in which we find ourselves today; a reality which has existed since 1913!



                We all know how Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria obtained those Macedonian lands and we know the lands do not belong to them. The part of Macedonia that was occupied by Serbia is now free and belongs to the Macedonian people. So should it not logically follow then that the parts occupied by Greece and Bulgaria should also be freed and should revert back to the Macedonian people? There are two ways we can look at this; complete independence just the way the Republic of Macedonia was freed, which is unlikely to happen anytime soon, but then no one knows how the future will turn out so shouldn’t we at least be thinking in that direction?



                The other way we can free ourselves is for the Macedonian people to be given autonomy in Greece, Bulgaria and Albania so that they can govern themselves within the countries in which they live today. If there is will on the part of Greece, Bulgaria and Albania this option can be easily attained and will cost Greece, Bulgaria and Albania nothing. But just to be clear, I personally prefer the “independence” option because frankly I have had enough of the Greeks to last me several lifetimes!



                Another issue that I have with Macedonians, concerns our mutual Macedonian national and ethnic identity. We tend to divide, isolate, separate and exclude parts of our genuine heritage, which I believe is not only wrong but we will some day come to regret.



                I have always maintained a realistic view of who we are and that is we are the product of all the people that have ventured in Macedonia since the melt of the last ice age. There are also those who believe, and rightly so, that we as Macedonians are even older than that.



                Regardless of our beliefs however, we are who we are but what we are not are “exclusively” the descendents of the ancient Macedonians, “exclusively” “Slavs”, or “exclusively” any single group that ventured into Macedonia over the years. I repeat, we are the product of all the people that set foot and settled in Macedonia and as such we have the right to their heritage, all of it.



                So please let us not think that we are “only this or we are only that” and rob ourselves of our own heritage. Also let us not allow our enemies to dictate to us who and what we are and who and what we are not. Let us not allow our enemies to intimidate us into hating any part of our heritage because they made us believe it to be demeaning! We are who we are and there is nothing we can do to change that except to accept and embrace it because that is our heritage! It is us, all of it. So please before you begin criticizing me for what I have said, think about it!



                I would go as far as saying that the Ancient Macedonian heritage is equally ours as is the so-called “Slav” heritage, whatever that might be. Also know that there are some things that are certain, for example when Christianity took hold in Europe Macedonia led the enlightenment. Along with the spreading of Christianity there was a revival of the Macedonian civilization, which not only brought Christianity to the Eastern European masses but gave them a written language which originated in Macedonia and was exclusively Macedonian. So why in the world should we not accept credit for these worldly deeds? Why should we exclude ourselves from the deeds of any of our Macedonian predecessors? Is this because we are intimidated by the Greeks calling us “Slavs” or “slavophones” or “Slavo-Macedonians”? We are all those things and more!



                As a people I believe we need to rise above our definition by others; we only need to look into history to find who we are and believe me what we will find will surprise us!



                If I may be so bold I would even venture to claim that the “Koine” language, which the modern Greeks today call “Greek”, and the “Thracian” language, which the Bulgarians today call “Bulgarian”, also fall into the category of Macedonian heritage. Why not? Think about it, the original Bulgarians were Tatars and spoke a Turkic language. Only later they adopted the Thracian language, parts of which the Macedonians were already speaking. The Bulgarians adopted the Thracian language after they settled in Thrace and were assimilated by the Thracian masses.



                The Koine language is much more Alexander the Greats’ language than it is an Athenian language and was it not Alexander the Great, a Macedonian, who made it the international language of commerce throughout his empire? Where would this language have been today if it were not for Alexander the Great and his Macedonians who took this language out of the Balkans and carried it to all the corners of their vast empires? So why should Macedonians be robbed of yet another heritage to satisfy the Bulgarians who are not even indigenous to the Balkans or the Modern Greeks who only a couple of centuries ago were not even Greeks at all but Albanians and Vlachs whose ancestors immigrated to Greece during the 11th to the 13th centuries?



                So realistically to whom do the “Koine” and “Thracian” languages belong, to the “Albanian-Vlach pretend Greeks”, to the “Turkic Tatars”, or to the indigenous Macedonians? What I am saying here could be proven with historical facts, all of it, which brings me to my next question! If all this can be proven, why hasn’t it been done by now? Why do we continuously take the defensive and react to issues being led by outsiders, like the “name negotiations”? Why haven’t we taken the offensive, formed a strategy, built cases and exposed the Greeks and Bulgarians for who they truly are?



                Please indulge me to let you know of a rumour I heard in my travels. When the Peoples’ Republic of Macedonia was about to gain its autonomy in Yugoslavia there was great concern in Great Britain as to what language the Macedonian people would adopt as their national language. Was it going to be the Koine language written on ancient relics all over Macedonia? After all Koine was Alexander’s language and Alexander was Macedonian so it would only have been appropriate if the Macedonians picked the Koine language as their Macedonian national language! The Greeks did it so why wouldn’t the Macedonians have done it too?



                Why were the Brits worried about Macedonia adopting the Koine language? I can tell you what I think and I think if Macedonians adopted the Koine language it would have meant that the Macedonians would have laid claim to the entire Macedonian heritage from ancient times to today. This would have “exposed” the fake Greeks and Bulgarians and would have left them out in the cold with no heritage! This is why I believe Britain was worried.



                Well am I the only one here who thinks we made a mistake for not choosing the Koine language as our national language? And this is precisely what I mean when I say we allow our enemies to intimidate us and then we willingly “give things up” that are rightfully ours!



                If you have doubts about what I said above then let me ask you this! Does Koine, Alexander’s language, belong to the indigenous Macedonians who have lived in Macedonia for many millenniums or to the Modern Greeks who in reality are Albanians and Vlachs whose ancestors migrated to present day Greece during the 11th to the 13th century AD?



                If you said “to the Macedonians” then ask yourself this question. Why then did we give up the Koine language and allow the Greeks to have it? So that today they can say “look we can speak ‘Greek’ therefore we are the descendents of the ancient Greeks?” Anyone can learn to speak “Greek”, even Alexander’s Koine in its purest form, but does that make them Alexander’s great, great grandchildren?



                If we take a look at the conditions under which countries such as Greece and Bulgaria were formed, I picked those two countries because I am familiar with them, we will discover that we have a better foundation than they do. When it comes to our modern Macedonian state, our modern Macedonian ethnic and national identity and our modern Macedonian language we can say that they are all natural evolutions indigenous to Macedonia. They all have long historic roots and belong to the Macedonian people.



                So not only do we have a right to defend our heritage, all of it, we have the right to stop others from expropriating it and from interfering in our affairs. In simple words, Greece has no grounds whatsoever to stand on when it comes to Macedonia, never mind interfere in Macedonian’s affairs and dictate conditions to the Macedonian people. This is something we all need to recognize!



                If we took some time to look into our history and compare it to theirs we would not only validate what I am saying here to be true but we would discover that as an identity we stand on firmer ground than the Greeks. For example the Greeks as an identity are a modern, 19th century construct which has nothing to do with “ancient” or “Modern” Macedonia”! History can easily prove this! Having said that then what right does Greece have to make claims to Macedonia?



                Macedonians on the other hand are indigenous to Macedonia and as such have historical claims to Macedonia. Again having said that then why are we allowing the Greeks to continue to interfere in our affairs?



                If it were up to me I would even go a few steps further and publicly uncover “everything” the Greeks have done against the Macedonian people, including the many atrocities they committed and then demand justice be served!



                Our long term strategy should be to “sort out history” and work towards recovering all that we have lost since 1913. We should be doing this regardless of whether we are capable today or not. I repeat, this should be our long term strategy!



                Also let us not forget that Greece will never cease to torment us until it achieves its own goals and that is to bring us to our demise! This has been Greece’s plan all along ever since it robbed us of our territories and of our heritage in1912, 1913!



                Before I end this part of the series I would like to see one more thing done and soon if possible. One of the mistakes, I believe as Macedonians, we made in the past was our inability or unwillingness to repatriate the Macedonian people driven out of their homeland because of war, torment and belligerence. We had the opportunity for repatriation after 1945 when the Peoples’ Republic of Macedonia became an autonomous state inside the Yugoslav federation. At that time we had an opportunity to “bring everyone home” but for various reasons it did not work out. Had the Republic of Macedonia opened the doors to all Macedonians and invited them to come and live in Macedonia instead of migrating everywhere in the world, the Republic of Macedonia today would have had a lot more Macedonians, some estimate more than four million Macedonians. This however did not happen then but it is not too late for it to happen now!



                The Republic of Macedonia even today has the potential and the capacity to bring together all Macedonians who would like to return to Macedonia. The Republic of Macedonia can do this by creating the right conditions for people to return; be it retired people who wish to spend the last years of their lives in their own homeland or young people who wish to settle there and have families and careers. For this to take place however, Macedonian authorities need to create the conditions, as well as promote the idea wherever Macedonians live.



                To be continued.
                "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                GOTSE DELCEV

                Comment

                • fyrOM
                  Banned
                  • Feb 2010
                  • 2180

                  If I may be so bold I would even venture to claim that the “Koine” language, which the modern Greeks today call “Greek”, and the “Thracian” language, which the Bulgarians today call “Bulgarian”, also fall into the category of Macedonian heritage. Why not? Think about it,
                  You should think about it...mmm...theta.

                  The Koine language is much more Alexander the Greats’ language than it is an Athenian language and was it not Alexander the Great, a Macedonian, who made it the international language of commerce throughout his empire? Where would this language have been today if it were not for Alexander the Great and his Macedonians who took this language out of the Balkans and carried it to all the corners of their vast empires?
                  How wide spread was it prior to him spreading it.

                  So realistically to whom do the “Koine” and “Thracian” languages belong, to the “Albanian-Vlach pretend Greeks”, to the “Turkic Tatars”, or to the indigenous Macedonians?
                  Is there another part to this equation…are there not posts on this site that say supposedly only the Macedonian nobility and upper class learned Greek while the common Macedonian didn’t understand Greek then if the common Macedonian spoke koin what language did the nobility learn.

                  What I am saying here could be proven with historical facts, all of it, which brings me to my next question! If all this can be proven, why hasn’t it been done by now?
                  Excellent question. Do you have an equally excellent answer. I would like it to be proven too…I think it would go a long way towards the name negotiations.

                  Please indulge me to let you know of a rumour I heard in my travels. When the Peoples’ Republic of Macedonia was about to gain its autonomy in Yugoslavia there was great concern in Great Britain as to what language the Macedonian people would adopt as their national language. Was it going to be the Koine language written on ancient relics all over Macedonia? After all Koine was Alexander’s language and Alexander was Macedonian so it would only have been appropriate if the Macedonians picked the Koine language as their Macedonian national language!
                  Well am I the only one here who thinks we made a mistake for not choosing the Koine language as our national language?
                  You should stick to reality and common knowledge and not indulge in rumors that could not have merit as it diminishes your credibility. Bar the Aegean Macedonian refugees who decided to live in titos Macedonia and their children whom they continued to teach Greek privately and the odd other person knew Greek. The majority of Macedonians do not understand Greek so why would they choose it as their official state language…so they don’t know how to fill out any government form. Besides not knowing koin most Macedonians would revolt at such a proposition seeing it as a forced conversion so the chances of this even being considered and seriously enough that the British would be nervous is nonsensical and hence unbelievable.

                  If you have doubts about what I said above then let me ask you this! Does Koine, Alexander’s language, belong to the indigenous Macedonians who have lived in Macedonia for many millenniums or to the Modern Greeks who in reality are Albanians and Vlachs whose ancestors migrated to present day Greece during the 11th to the 13th century AD?
                  We know the modern Greeks as Albanian Vlachs Roma ect acquired the koin language but if the Macedonians used the koin language because as far back as anyone in family can remember no one knew how to speak koin nor did they know anyone who did so are we not really Macedonians. I have heard in the past some Aegean Macedonians say that there is some border somewhere where Macedonia proper ends and that northern tip in Serbia Macedonians speak funny so should I buy a Sajkaca or my great grandfather knew some Turkish because of the Ottoman empire so should I buy a Fez or maybe I should just make one out of a newspaper.

                  Our long term strategy should be to “sort out history” and work towards recovering all that we have lost since 1913. We should be doing this regardless of whether we are capable today or not. I repeat, this should be our long term strategy!
                  I’ve been saying for a long time that we should sort out our history and recovering all that Macedonians have lost but I thought Macedonian history went beyond 1913 or is this the only history that concerns you.

                  Also let us not forget that Greece will never cease to torment us until it achieves its own goals and that is to bring us to our demise!
                  Hence my point in sorting out our history but as a matter of urgency as it goes a long way towards the name dispute or do you think the name negotiation will go on for another 100 years or more so it can sit on the backburner while those who live through our history and have something to tell pass away and any document they may have had to share become lost.

                  One of the mistakes, I believe as Macedonians, we made in the past was our inability or unwillingness to repatriate the Macedonian people driven out of their homeland because of war, torment and belligerence.
                  A mistake is only when you have a say in a decision. Tito is no friend of the Macedonians tito never
                  wanted too many Macedonians in Yugoslavia…maybe because of the skeletons in the closet.

                  We had the opportunity for repatriation after 1945 when the Peoples’ Republic of Macedonia became an autonomous state inside the Yugoslav federation.
                  It was not as autonomous as you might think. It was created at the execution of Macedonian officers who refused to be subject to tito and wanted an independent Macedonia as to their original arrangement with tito and then the force battle of attrition for the Macedonian troops at the battle of Sren. Tito was no friend of the Macedonians.

                  Had the Republic of Macedonia opened the doors to all Macedonians and invited them to come and live in Macedonia instead of migrating everywhere in the world, the Republic of Macedonia today would have had a lot more Macedonians,
                  Tito in keeping good with the west and Greece initially shut the border with orders to shoot anyone trying to cross. Helpless Macedonians caught on the other side of the border were massacred. Only when the mass murdering in Aegean Macedonia became too great and would be an absolute embarrassment for all concerned did tito open the border and accepted the refugees who were mainly women and children. To sanitize history he then aided the Aegean Macedonian refugees by building free apartment blocks which to this day bare the unofficial label the Aegean buildings or Aegean apartments and gave them jobs in preference to other Macedonians.

                  Tito is no friend of the Macedonians tito never wanted too many Macedonians in Yugoslavia…maybe because of the skeletons in the closet…that’s why few businesses were opened in Macedonia resulting in most of the population earning a living as poor farmers with the state buying their produce and feeding much of Yugoslavia and those few industries that were opened in Macedonia were the likes of metal sheltering and poisoning the city air or munitions factories like 11th October. Having created unfavorable conditions at home he made it easy for Macedonians to emigrate into the west where they dutifully sent back hard foreign currency which never made it past Belgrade as foreign currency to support poor relatives. A…foreign…cash cow is better then a bunch of peasants all turning to you looking for work.

                  This however did not happen then but it is not too late for it to happen now!
                  Yes it is.

                  The Republic of Macedonia even today has the potential and the capacity to bring together all Macedonians who would like to return to Macedonia. The Republic of Macedonia can do this by creating the right conditions for people to return;
                  With over thirty something percent unemployment rate and poor infrastructure Macedonia does not have the means to do this.

                  be it retired people who wish to spend the last years of their lives in their own homeland
                  Most don’t. People of pension age went through the heartache of leaving mothers fathers and siblings and friends behind to start new lives in the west and don’t want to go through that again leaving children and grandchildren behind in the diaspora. Macedonians are not the cool type of grans who skype and would video conference to keep in touch with their children or grandchildren and even if they could learn the internet they wouldn’t want to.

                  Lets not just consider what they would be leaving behind but also what they would be going to. Many have not only lost their parents but also outlived most if not all of their siblings and nephews and nieces are not to thrilled in attending to their needs…kako majka sto se raduva so dete so izdrskani peleni…particularly realizing they will be progressively be able to do less for themselves. Struggling with upkeep and preparations for winter and bothering with freezing mornings ect. Like the saying goes people go south to Florida never north for their retirement.

                  young people who wish to settle there and have families and careers.
                  With 30 something percent unemployment Macedonia already has a lot of young people doing just that. I don’t think the local Macedonians would be too thrilled at more young people from outside joining their queues as would the outsider looking at diving into a vast pool of ready unemployed.

                  Further with the lack of infrastructure many services are substandard…eg health education as well as other difficulties.

                  Those with young children to teenagers often find their kids don’t want to stay too long.

                  A little more realism would go a long way towards believability.
                  Last edited by fyrOM; 02-20-2011, 06:51 PM.

                  Comment

                  • Vangelovski
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 8531

                    Without going into some of the other issues, I agree with OziMak in this instance in that these theories about the Koine language that Stefov puts forward are completely baseless. I'm not sure how someone like Stefov could have come to such a conclusion that the Koine language was 'Macedonian'.
                    Last edited by Vangelovski; 02-20-2011, 06:52 PM.
                    If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                    The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                    Comment

                    • Risto the Great
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 15658

                      I think the Koine language was amplified by the Macedonians. It was a written language that preceded the Macedonians' arrival in the East.

                      To call it Macedonian is misleading.

                      It certainly would not have been the language the ancient Macedonians used when they did not want Hellenes to understand them.
                      Risto the Great
                      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                      Comment

                      • Soldier of Macedon
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 13670

                        Koine is a language based on Attic Greek with several foreign admixtures (mostly relevant to nouns), and it was developed during the Macedonian invasion of Asia and afterwards, not before. To call the Koine language 'Macedonian' is completely inaccurate. I don't know why Stefov is doing this, or where he is heading with it.
                        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                        Comment

                        • George S.
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2009
                          • 10116

                          I'll try & get an answer on this.
                          Last edited by George S.; 02-21-2011, 08:55 PM. Reason: ed
                          "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                          GOTSE DELCEV

                          Comment

                          • George S.
                            Senior Member
                            • Aug 2009
                            • 10116

                            Here's the answer guys:"
                            Zdravo George,



                            I am glad you asked this question. I received a lot of feedback from many Macedonians on the “Koine” issue and they deserve to know why I did this.



                            In my younger days a Macedonian activist living in Greece, who by the way is still active to this day, told me that “to beat the Greeks you will have to think like a Greek”.
                            Risto Stefov



                            The article in question, as are many of my “editorial” or “rant” articles, is not only about “facts” and “truth”, it is about how far I can push the envelope and get away with it.



                            In researching our history through the eyes of diplomats and Governments I discovered a different view of the world which has mostly has “little” to do with “facts” and “truth” but a lot to do with holding power and getting re-elected.



                            Governments do what is “popular” with the majority of the people, and, at the diplomatic lever, they very rarely care about people’s “feelings”.



                            We Macedonians know that Greeks, who are not really Greeks, claim a lot of things that don’t belong to them and yet today they are still popular in the world, have a country, a glowing heritage and a history that stretches back to ancient times. What do we have? With all the “right” things we have done and the right steps we have taken, what dowe have?



                            Two thirds of our country is still occupied, after 100 years, and we can’t seem to even recognize that. Our enemies bad mouth our heritage and because of it, we reject it.



                            The “Koine” language, as I have said hundreds of times in my history articles, was the language of trade and commerce in the entire Mediterranean region which the Macedonians extended to Asia and Africa. At least this is what history tells us. It was used as a common language by the educated, business people and governments.



                            The question I attempted to pose, as I do in many of my “editorial articles”, given the current situation and the fact that Greece has laid claim to a lot of things that don’t belong to it, in contract, can we do the same thing? Obviously, judging from the criticism I received, we can’t!



                            Again than I must ask! What is it that we “CAN” do to get us moving in the right direction which is acceptable to Macedonians?



                            If you don’t ask, you will never know!



                            Say hi to the guys at MacedonianTruth for me. I would love to join the forum and debate but where am I going to find the time? My heart is with you.
                            "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                            GOTSE DELCEV

                            Comment

                            • Soldier of Macedon
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 13670

                              Originally posted by Risto Stefov
                              The question I attempted to pose, as I do in many of my “editorial articles”, given the current situation and the fact that Greece has laid claim to a lot of things that don’t belong to it, in contract, can we do the same thing? Obviously, judging from the criticism I received, we can’t!
                              We don't need to lower ourselves by replicating the behaviour of our enemies.
                              Again than I must ask! What is it that we “CAN” do to get us moving in the right direction which is acceptable to Macedonians?
                              There is still much work to be done, and I think it is more beneficial if we focus on claiming things that are actually significant from a Macedonian standpoint (in the context of Macedonian history), rather than claiming things we shouldn't, just because our neighbours have done the same.
                              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

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                              • Risto the Great
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 15658

                                Stefov makes a point.
                                Macedonians have never been good at "one upmanship". So this cannot be argued as something that has been done poorly before. I do agree that we need to be arguing from a righteous perspective, but let us not forget we are dealing with Greek peasants who throw Zeus or some other myth up at the most opportune of times to justify modern problems.
                                Risto the Great
                                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

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