United Macedonia Diaspora

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  • Buktop
    Member
    • Oct 2009
    • 934

    Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
    I can confirm a brisk walk from Canberra to Melbourne takes a little bit of time.
    And? Do you know what the walk is like from New Jersey to Toronto?

    So Vangelovski considers himself a Macedonian activist but cannot be bothered to attend an event when the Macedonian Prime Minister decides to attend Australia. Jeez I must be a clown for thinking that someone so important would attend an event so meaningless...

    You know, I really don't know what to think anymore. We have Phoenix and Vangelovski crying about injustice and betrayal, and yet they don't even have the time to get their lazy asses off their computer chairs and attend an event where the PRIME MINISTER attends THEIR country. I guess you could always fly to Macedonia and talk with Gruevski there, that might be cheaper and a shorter distance huh.....?
    "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

    Never once say you walk upon your final way
    though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
    Our long awaited hour will draw near
    and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

    Comment

    • Buktop
      Member
      • Oct 2009
      • 934

      Originally posted by Buktop View Post
      In a republican government who votes for Parliamentarians? Why do they vote for Parliamentarians? What is the Parliament for? Come on now Vangelovski don't play dumb.
      By the way Vangi, you almost got away with avoiding these questions. Perhaps we could avoid this whole argument if you answered them...
      "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

      Never once say you walk upon your final way
      though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
      Our long awaited hour will draw near
      and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

      Comment

      • Buktop
        Member
        • Oct 2009
        • 934

        Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
        Buktop, how are Macedonian troops defending Macedonia in Afghanistan...and don't give me the bullshit line about "training"

        Its not about that you American arse licker...
        Bullshit huh? Why don't you watch the video of their training with the Vermont national guard, or any of the other videos that were posted. You really have no clue do you?
        "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

        Never once say you walk upon your final way
        though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
        Our long awaited hour will draw near
        and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

        Comment

        • Prolet
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2009
          • 5241

          Jankovska, You where the one who is so against Ohrid, who do you go there for the city or the people?? In Summer time, Ohridsko is full of Skopjani and Bitolchani. Biri kolku sakash
          МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

          Comment

          • Vangelovski
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 8531

            Bucktop,

            You're not only an international law expert, a constitutional law expert, a political scientist, but also a military specialist now...Wow!
            If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

            The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

            Comment

            • Prolet
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2009
              • 5241

              TK, Who are you? Where do you come from?? You seem to know a fair bit for a third generation Macedonian.

              TK, the administrators of this forum respect both flags for different reasons. We, along with most real Macedonians, reject the interim accord.
              Risto, What different reasons?? People dont understand that its the previous Governments that put us in this mess, If Gruevski was there from the start we wouldnt be in this situation that we are in now.
              МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

              Comment

              • Vangelovski
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 8531

                Buktop,

                I'm glad that you think I'm that important

                Why don't you just tell everyone your theory of consent. I've read it many times, but I'd like everyone on here to see it.
                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                Comment

                • Buktop
                  Member
                  • Oct 2009
                  • 934

                  Originally posted by Jankovska View Post
                  Our Army is to defend, since when do you think it's ok to send your troops to a unjust war? Are you not ashamed that we are part of that? You should be. We have no business in Afganista, the war in Afganistan in illegal. We should never be a part of anything like that. It's a selfish world I know but we are getting nothing from it anyway. I don't have a saying in it Buktop but I am ashamed that Macedonians go on to kill innocent people in their country and take their last hope. I am ashamed of it and I will not shut up about it. I will never side with murderers, no matter if they are Macedonian or if they are Albanian, or if they are my family or not. The people of Afganistan have done nothing wrong to the Macedonian people, we should stay out of it. The people of Afganistan are victims of America and now us too. Shamefull
                  And who is to say that Macedonians are instigating the battles they fight. Their duty is to police the areas they are assigned. They have strict orders, do not fire until fired upon. The rules of engagement are clearly defined and are followed out to the T, otherwise Macedonian soldiers would not be allowed to participate in Afghanistan. We are not there to murder, we are not there to serve Americans. We are there to restore order and peace to Afghanistan, as a temporary police force, as they do not have their own as of yet.
                  "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

                  Never once say you walk upon your final way
                  though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
                  Our long awaited hour will draw near
                  and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

                  Comment

                  • Buktop
                    Member
                    • Oct 2009
                    • 934

                    Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                    Bucktop,

                    You're not only an international law expert, a constitutional law expert, a political scientist, but also a military specialist now...Wow!
                    Well we all can't be masters of evasion or bullshitters like you can we?
                    "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

                    Never once say you walk upon your final way
                    though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
                    Our long awaited hour will draw near
                    and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

                    Comment

                    • Jankovska
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 1774

                      Peace in Afganistan? Whose tool are we? Who has asked us to go there/ Is it not the same people who fucked up the peace in Afganistan? Is it not the same people who kill,rape and torture the innocent people of Afganistan? Do we support them by being there? YES. That makes us just as bad. Like it or not we have no business there and we should pull out straight away. i don't support the war in Afganista, Iraq and I am against our Army to be suporting and serving murderers. Simple. Don't think you will not have blood on your hands if you go and support a murderer? You will and they do. Afganistan has done nothing to Macedonia for the Macedonians da si stavat nos i nivnata mandza. We should stay out. The peace talks about Afganistan and Irag are a US talk, they don't need someone to hold the peace, they need NATO soldiers including the Macedonians to leave them live their lifes in the their country the best way they can. Nie doma ne sme si se sredile ke ideme na drugi da sredueme. Boze Buktop sto se trudis da prodades, krastavici na krastavicar?

                      Comment

                      • Buktop
                        Member
                        • Oct 2009
                        • 934

                        Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                        Buktop,

                        I'm glad that you think I'm that important

                        Why don't you just tell everyone your theory of consent. I've read it many times, but I'd like everyone on here to see it.
                        Once again evasion seems to be your weapon of choice, could you answer these questions for me, as I have obliged you on numerous occasions?

                        In a republican government who votes for Parliamentarians? Why do they vote for Parliamentarians? What is the Parliament for?
                        "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

                        Never once say you walk upon your final way
                        though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
                        Our long awaited hour will draw near
                        and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

                        Comment

                        • Vangelovski
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 8531

                          Originally posted by Buktop View Post
                          March, 2007


                          Why don't you show us this so called support of the Interim accord and Ohrid framework that you keep claiming exists? If it is so obvious, surely you could show us?

                          Yet more ambiguity from UMD...although you've seen it so many times before, here is there support for these agreements - they not only support them, but there is the sense that they are marketing them as Macedonia's saviours.

                          UMD supports and legitimises these two agreements by arguing that they should be strictly enforced.

                          Interim Accord

                          NATO: The Case for Macedonia
                          12 March 2009
                          http://www.fpa.org/topics_info2414/t...?doc_id=853200

                          At the April 2008 NATO Summit in Bucharest, Macedonia's invitation to join NATO was denied when Greece vetoed it, based on its unilateral objections to Macedonia's constitutional name. This veto directly violated the Interim Accord between Greece and Macedonia, brokered by the United Nations in 1995 following a three-year economic embargo Greece imposed on Macedonia. The accord stipulates that Greece will not block Macedonia from joining international organizations, as long as Macedonia does so under the UN-brokered name, "the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia," pending a UN-facilitated, mutually acceptable name resolution.

                          A name to reckon with
                          Sunday, May 4, 2008
                          Meto Koloski's Opinion Piece in the Washington Times
                          The recent Greek veto of the Republic of Macedonia’s NATO membership during the NATO Bucharest Summit earlier this month was unfounded and contrary to the principles of NATO and its member states.


                          ...It was Greece, not Macedonia, that rejected the most recent proposal to resolve the "name dispute." Moreover, Greece's veto violated the 1995 Interim Accord that it signed with Macedonia, which binds Greece's right to veto Macedonia's NATO bid or any other international organization that Macedonia would like to join as long as it joins under the U.N. provisional reference term used to identify Macedonia...

                          This is not only supporting and legitimising the Interim Accord, but is implying that Republic of Macedonia (Skopje) was a good proposal and condemning Greece for rejecting the proposal.


                          UMD Sends Letter to U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice Regarding Greece
                          Thursday, 14 February 2008
                          http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/305/51/

                          ...American policy on Macedonia’s NATO admission is in alignment with Article 11 of the Interim Accord, which bars Greece from impeding Macedonia’s accession to international bodies, including NATO, as long as Macedonia accedes under the Provisional Reference.

                          UMD Dismayed By Greece's Veto of Macedonia
                          Thursday, 03 April 2008
                          http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/321/53/

                          …The Greek veto violates the 1995 United Nations brokered Interim Accord between Macedonia and Greece, which barred Greece from using the "name dispute" to impede Macedonia's NATO accession…


                          The Framework Agreement

                          NATO: The Case for Macedonia
                          12 March 2009
                          http://www.fpa.org/topics_info2414/t...?doc_id=853200

                          In 2001, Albanian extremists attacked Macedonian police officers and burned villages, demanding more rights in education, employment, and political representation. Through a U.S. - EU brokered agreement, the conflict was resolved and Macedonian-Albanians were accorded full rights, including higher education courses in the Albanian language and a 25% set-aside for the army, police force, and public administration. Today, Macedonian-Albanians fully participate in social and economic development, working with their countrymen to ensure the nation's membership into NATO and the EU.
                          In this Meto makes the Albanian extremists look like 'freedom fighters' struggling for human rights!!!


                          Why can't UMD just unambigiously renounce these two agreements, like the vast majority of Diaspora organisations?
                          Last edited by Vangelovski; 01-11-2010, 06:54 AM.
                          If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                          The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                          Comment

                          • Buktop
                            Member
                            • Oct 2009
                            • 934

                            Originally posted by Jankovska View Post
                            Peace in Afganistan? Whose tool are we? Who has asked us to go there/ Is it not the same people who fucked up the peace in Afganistan? Is it not the same people who kill,rape and torture the innocent people of Afganistan? Do we support them by being there? YES. That makes us just as bad. Like it or not we have no business there and we should pull out straight away. i don't support the war in Afganista, Iraq and I am against our Army to be suporting and serving murderers. Simple. Don't think you will not have blood on your hands if you go and support a murderer? You will and they do. Afganistan has done nothing to Macedonia for the Macedonians da si stavat nos i nivnata mandza. We should stay out. The peace talks about Afganistan and Irag are a US talk, they don't need someone to hold the peace, they need NATO soldiers including the Macedonians to leave them live their lifes in the their country the best way they can. Nie doma ne sme si se sredile ke ideme na drugi da sredueme. Boze Buktop sto se trudis da prodades, krastavici na krastavicar?
                            Now I take personal offense to this, some of my best friends are in Afghanistan and Iraq, and they are not MURDERERS. You need to check your fucking facts, whatever you believe to be the agenda of the campaign in Afghanistan and Iraq, the JOBS of the soldiers there is to restore peace and to police the territories until their own police are competent enough to do it themselves.

                            If you would like, I'll arrange for you to meet with some of these so called "murderers" maybe then you'll understand what is actually going on out there, rather than believing some bullshit you read in a fucking magazine.
                            "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

                            Never once say you walk upon your final way
                            though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
                            Our long awaited hour will draw near
                            and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

                            Comment

                            • Vangelovski
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 8531

                              Originally posted by Buktop View Post
                              Well we all can't be masters of evasion or bullshitters like you can we?
                              Wow, another clever word!
                              If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                              The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                              Comment

                              • Vangelovski
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 8531

                                Originally posted by Buktop View Post
                                You need to check your fucking facts
                                And another clever word!
                                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                                Comment

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