United Macedonia Diaspora

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  • Risto the Great
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 15658

    Originally posted by Buktop View Post
    But the fact that they (UMD) do not currently have a position means they are taking the time to properly draft a position.
    How long do they need mate? Another 5 years? How do you properly draft a position that says "no negotiations except for the negotiations already negotiated" .... and still sound sane?
    Risto the Great
    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

    Comment

    • Soldier of Macedon
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 13670

      Buktop, seriously, that's pathetic.

      How long has this issue existed for, how long has the UMD been around for - And they still (according to you) need more time to "draft" a position? You are a sorry apologist mate, and you haven't changed a bit. How pathetic it is to see Macedonians from America blindly following and defending the UMD at every turn, irrespective of their stupidity and treachery.

      Why on earth would they "alienate" or "offend" Macedonians in Australia if they came out with a statement now? Oh that's right, lack of consistency, lack of integrity, lack of principle, etc. Now I remember why more than 95% voters went against UMD as their representative. Meto was a part of the 5%, forgot who the other one was, some blind apologist I would gather.

      Do you know why people are apologists, Buktop? It has nothing to do with their support of the UMD, but more the fact that they support the UMD in decisions that are clearly and obviously wrong and not worthy of support by any self-respecting Macedonians.
      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

      Comment

      • Pelister
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 2742

        Originally posted by Buktop View Post
        More like safe, primarily legal language absolving themselves of a specific stance until a proper draft of their position can be published rather than putting out a position that will alienate and offend.
        I would agree with you on that in part. Sufficiently vague. I have never met any organization, nor any Macedonian on a personal level who has as low an opinion of Macedonians as UMD does.

        I mean the hoops UMD are jumping, the compromises they have been making on our behalf to raise our estimates in the eyes of the fkn West, just amazes me every time.

        UMD did not deliberately set out to alienate and offend Macedonians, it just has because of its position on critical issues facing us.

        Comment

        • Phoenix
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2008
          • 4671

          Originally posted by Buktop View Post
          Well, Australians would be my guess, or in particular members here. But the fact that they do not currently have a position means they are taking the time to properly draft a position.
          C'mon Buktop, get off the fuckin' fence, you must enjoy the splinters in your arse...

          "...taking time to properly draft a position"...what a fuckin' imbecile.

          The fact that they do not currently have a position is glaring proof of their ineptitude to set a policy in concrete, it shows an inability to set a policy that will protect Macedonian interests, instead their dragging of feet reeks of subservience to somebody elses cause, not that of the Macedonian people...

          UMD would much rather craft a dynamic policy, one that will bend in the wind to appease their masters in Washington and their crooked supporters within Macedonia...

          Comment

          • indigen
            Senior Member
            • May 2009
            • 1558

            Kiro Gligorov: “...The demand that Macedonia change its name is outside the scope of international law and practice. I ask you on the profound implications of agreeing to this demand.

            Over two million people are to be told by the EC that, as from tomorrow, they are no longer Macedonians. To deny a people’s identity in this way is humiliating.

            It is insulting to their national dignity and a denial of the right of justice for all small nations. In the Balkans, where whole ethnic groups have been changed as part of “ethnic cleansing” through the ages, the demand invokes deep fears.

            Changing a people’s name is but a short step from denying their very existence and rights. It is the people of the Republic of Macedonia who have decided that they want a sovereign and independent state known as the Republic of Macedonia.
            Gligorov is telling an untruth when he says the people voted for "Republic of" at the 1991 Referendum.

            Државното име Македонија е затворено со референдумот од 8 септември 1991 година кога македонскиот народ и граѓаните во апсолутно мнозинство одлучија „за самостојна и суверена држава македонија“ без додавки и придавки. Одлуката на референдумот е задолжителна! SMK

            This fact is often ignored in international discussions between governments. The political reality is that any government which bowed to international pressure to remove Macedonia from the country’s name would not survive, and any such decision would throw the whole country into turmoil and civil unrest....”
            Gligorov may sound like an ardent hardliner in the above excerpts to some misguided souls but in reality it is the same doublespeak that UMDovci use and was setting the groundwork for the 1993 UN capitulation. His only prerequisite above is that the word "Macedonia" is PART of the name of the state and does NOT mean it should not be modified by prefixes or suffixes, as he soon afterwards accepted, and as the VASSAL SUCCESSORS are currently advocating for a permanent solution.

            The name is our nation’s identity.
            The European, December 10-13, 1992.

            Comment

            • Vangelovski
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 8531

              I'm wondering who the legal "genius" is that advises UMD? In their press release, they call on Macedonia to submit a resolution to the UN General Assembly AND the Security Council so that it is READMITTED under the name "Republic of Macedonia". WHY? Why do we need the UN to vote on our name?

              Here is an example:

              Cameroon: Previously referred to as Cameroun (before merging with Southern Cameroons in 1961). By a letter of 4 January 1974, the Secretary-General was informed that Cameroon had changed its name to the United Republic of Cameroon. Name was changed back to Cameroon on 4 February 1984.

              Iran (Islamic Republic of): Previously referred to as Iran. By a communication of 5 March 1981, Iran informed the Secretary-General that it should be referred to by its complete name of the Islamic Republic of Iran.



              These are examples of SOVEREIGN states who INFORMED the UN through an official letter of their name changes. UMD, and whoever its legal “genius” is, wants the 200+ members of the UN to DECIDED what our name is, rathen than have the Macedonian Government act on behalf of the sovereign Macedonian people and INFORM the UN that we are no longer FYROM, but MACEDONIA.
              Last edited by Vangelovski; 06-14-2010, 03:24 AM.
              If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

              The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

              Comment

              • indigen
                Senior Member
                • May 2009
                • 1558

                Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                I'm wondering who the legal "genius" is that advises UMD? In their press release, they call on Macedonia to submit a resolution to the UN General Assembly AND the Security Council so that it is READMITTED under the name "Republic of Macedonia". WHY? Why do we need the UN to vote on our name?

                Here is an example:

                Cameroon: Previously referred to as Cameroun (before merging with Southern Cameroons in 1961). By a letter of 4 January 1974, the Secretary-General was informed that Cameroon had changed its name to the United Republic of Cameroon. Name was changed back to Cameroon on 4 February 1984.

                Iran (Islamic Republic of): Previously referred to as Iran. By a communication of 5 March 1981, Iran informed the Secretary-General that it should be referred to by its complete name of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

                These are examples of SOVEREIGN states who INFORMED the UN through an official letter of their name changes. UMD, and whoever its legal “genius” is, wants the 200+ members of the UN to DECIDED what our name is, rather than have the Macedonian Government act on behalf of the sovereign Macedonian people and INFORM the UN that we are no longer FYROM, but MACEDONIA.
                I guess it is the graduates of "The Meto Koloski and Buktop School of Strategic Geopolitics"? I have seen same mantra in many a Buktop post, so I guess they are in a political loop with like-minded VASSAL "strategists"!? To think that these are "highly educated" and the "cream" of Macedonian intellect, what a waste of money for their miss-education.

                Comment

                • Vangelovski
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 8531

                  Originally posted by indigen View Post
                  I guess it is the graduates of "The Meto Koloski and Buktop School of Strategic Geopolitics"? I have seen same mantra in many a Buktop post, so I guess they are in a political loop with like-minded VASSAL "strategists"!? To think that these are "highly educated" and the "cream" of Macedonian intellect, what a waste of money for their miss-education.
                  They're the students of Gligorov and Bitove - the Grand Masters...what do they like to call them again..."statesmen"?
                  If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                  The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                  Comment

                  • indigen
                    Senior Member
                    • May 2009
                    • 1558

                    Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                    They're the students of Gligorov and Bitove - the Grand Masters...what do they like to call them again..."statesmen"?
                    Yes, I would go with that and also their eminent successors such as Srgjan Kerim (he is of Turkish ethnicity, too) and no doubt Frchkovski or his associates, amongst many others.

                    Comment

                    • julie
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2009
                      • 3869

                      Originally posted by Buktop View Post
                      Well, Australians would be my guess, or in particular members here. But the fact that they do not currently have a position means they are taking the time to properly draft a position.
                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by julie
                      who are we going to alientate and offend?
                      Are we the only nation in this universe that cannot stand up for itself?

                      Well, Australians would be my guess, or in particular members here. But the fact that they do not currently have a position means they are taking the time to properly draft a position.
                      __________________



                      Originally posted by Buktop View Post
                      More like safe, primarily legal language absolving themselves of a specific stance until a proper draft of their position can be published rather than putting out a position that will alienate and offend.

                      Buktop you are seriously pissing me off. In a bad way. If you were my son I would put you over my knee and spank you.
                      You have misquoted me and I have copied and pasted the above.
                      Rock on Australia for not being an arse kissing brown nosing napalm funded trigger happy nation by the likes of your pathetic disgusting lot.
                      You have gone too far.
                      If you dont like the members of this forum and their fight for the Macedonian cause then piss off and shove it up your effed up organisation thatr harbors and funds the likes of MPO and awards medals to heroes that will sell my Macedonian name.
                      Every time I soften and start believing your organisation is starting to do something for the Macedonian nation inclusive of the disapota YOU are th one that goes contra
                      fark off
                      you low life piece of scum for misquoting me and leave Australia out of it, because Australia never funded the bombing of my blood nor did they fund the likes of terrorists like the Israelis.
                      you yankee doodle danders are all the same
                      "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

                      Comment

                      • Phoenix
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2008
                        • 4671

                        Originally posted by julie View Post
                        Buktop you are seriously pissing me off. In a bad way. If you were my son I would put you over my knee and spank you.
                        Jules, what makes you think that Buktop would consider such actions as punishment...?

                        Buktop is a simple disciple of subservience, he's accustomed to the roles of master and unquestioning servant, he takes for granted his role as arse-kisser, boot licker and to be lead like a dog...

                        Comment

                        • julie
                          Senior Member
                          • May 2009
                          • 3869

                          Phoenix, Gospod zravje da im dade chedo moye. LMAO needed that.

                          I have seen the light Phoenix and can actually see that is so
                          "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

                          Comment

                          • Big Bad Sven
                            Senior Member
                            • Jan 2009
                            • 1528

                            Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
                            C'mon Buktop, get off the fuckin' fence, you must enjoy the splinters in your arse...

                            "...taking time to properly draft a position"...what a fuckin' imbecile.

                            The fact that they do not currently have a position is glaring proof of their ineptitude to set a policy in concrete, it shows an inability to set a policy that will protect Macedonian interests, instead their dragging of feet reeks of subservience to somebody elses cause, not that of the Macedonian people...

                            UMD would much rather craft a dynamic policy, one that will bend in the wind to appease their masters in Washington and their crooked supporters within Macedonia...
                            Surely by now all of the UMD apologists out there would have developed internal hemroids because they have been sitting on the (american) fence for so long now.....

                            Comment

                            • Buktop
                              Member
                              • Oct 2009
                              • 934

                              If I had a quarter for every time Vangelovski and Indigen called me a Vassal, I would be twice as rich as Bitove ever dreamed of being...

                              Vangelovski, Why do you think that no one in our successive governments over the past 20 years has bothered to inform the UN Secretary General of the re-assumption of Macedonia's historical/constitutional name? What would hold our government back from taking this course of action?

                              Could it be that Iran and Cameroon had no name/territorial disputes with other countries at the time of their renaming?

                              perhaps you haven't read Order of the President of the Court of 19 March 1996. Commission of the European Communities v Hellenic Republic. Removal from the register. Case C-120/94.


                              and


                              Whereas the examples you cited in Cameroon and Iran are completely different from the Macedonian situation, and can not be compared.


                              And to think that you claimed to have an intimate knowledge of law (or legal principle) when you don't even know what the hell the actual legal argument is... I have posted this case several times only to have it shrugged off by none other than yourself (as well as aleksandrov) The only one to actually respond to my posting of this case was Dzog, showing true legal prowess.

                              You on the other hand, have not shown the same professionalism, nor even comparable legal knowledge when it concerns international law and Macedonia...
                              "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

                              Never once say you walk upon your final way
                              though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
                              Our long awaited hour will draw near
                              and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

                              Comment

                              • Vangelovski
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 8531

                                Buktop,

                                I never claimed to have an "intimate knowledge of law" - you assumed that yourself, perhaps as a result of reading my posts

                                You are a subservient VASSAL and each and every one of your posts attests to that.

                                The fact that you legitimise Greece's "concerns" as being a factor in limiting Macedonia from naming itself or informing the UN of its state name is a further testament to your subservience.

                                Freedom has no place in you, nor do you have a place in a free society. I'm not surprised people like Putin and Tito are your heroes.
                                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                                Comment

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