United Macedonia Diaspora

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  • Vangelovski
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 8531

    Originally posted by UMDiaspora.org View Post
    UMD is a registered Australian organization as well.
    Is this so? ASIC seems to disagree.

    Even if it is registered in Australia, so what? It is such a marginal organisation which recieves its orders from Washington, it plays no legitimate role in representing OUR views to OUR government.
    Last edited by Vangelovski; 09-12-2010, 02:37 AM.
    If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

    The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

    Comment

    • makedonche
      Senior Member
      • Oct 2008
      • 3242

      ]
      Originally posted by Currency Trader View Post
      This particular topic will just expand the subject further than I intend to participate on. It can be discussed endlessly. I'd focus on what UMD is actively doing and what their policy is, rather than get stuck with their name. For me, its not the name that matters the most, but what policy they are driving and what they are trying to achieve.

      Ct- the subject is the university survey and my questions/comments relate to it. I am focussing on what they're doing by questioning by what authority they have become part of the survey. For me it's how did they become part of the survey and why weren't the Macedonian Communities involved or notified, because the local communities are the representatives of the Australian Macedonian Diaspora, not UMD.
      What policy are they driving and what are they trying to achieve?


      There are diaspora Macedonians who accept UMD to represent them.
      There are more diaspora Macedonians who do not accept them as representatives.

      Their members most notably - As for methods they use, like everything else in life. There will always be differences of opinion of what should have been done and what should not have been done. I may like how they are pro-active, but in certain cases I would question some statements or action. That's only normal. The point is, every organisation will have its own set of "fans" and its own set of "enemies". This seems to be the case with Macedonian organisations.

      When they purport ot represent the Diaspora without consultation or authority, they need to be questioned.

      I cannot blame them for being on the survey. After all, they are looking after their own interest for the work they are putting in.
      I can blame them for being on the survey without due process in notifying the Diaspora prior to entering into this survey



      No I don't think so - Would it be fair to assume that you did not fill out the survey due to UMD's methods and role?
      It would be fair to assume I did not fill out this survey because I couldn't verify it's validity, purpose, intent or authority from the Australian Macedonian Diaspora.



      If UMD is not the preferred organisation in Australia, then what do they stand to gain in your opinion?
      UMD is not the preferred organisation in Australia, they are trying to gain credibility by being part of the survey.

      Have you asked UMD why they didn't consult with appropriate parties for this survey?
      UMD are on this forum and have read all of the posts here, so the answer is yes they have been asked, but have yet to post a response.


      --
      CT
      I hope this gives you a better idea of where I am coming from. If everbody decides to create their own Macedonian Diaspora and act as if they represent the entire Diaspora it would dissipate the Macedonian Diaspora into some irrelevant bunch of organisations with no credibility. As it stands the Australian Macedonian Communities have enormous credibility and are true representatives of the Australian Macedonians and have been for many decades.
      On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

      Comment

      • Currency Trader
        Member
        • Sep 2009
        • 172

        Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
        100% of UMD's members are probably not even sure what UMD stands for much less agree with it. I tried to ask them publicly but the answer was underwhelming..
        You asked all 100%?


        Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post

        Here read it:
        This thread is solely devoted to our combined efforts in defining the Macedonian Cause. Please post your feedback, additions and changes in this thread. The moderators will edit this first post to include your changes until we have all agreed on a complete, perfect, unwavering and timeless definition of the Macedonian Cause. --


        Let me know what exactly you disagree with. Make sure you do.
        That was a nicely written cause.

        Comment

        • Risto the Great
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 15658

          Originally posted by Currency Trader View Post
          You asked all 100%?
          I did say probably. For good reason I might add.

          Originally posted by Currency Trader View Post
          That was a nicely written cause.
          Do you agree with it?

          Rogi created it in the first instance. It has had some changes but the sentiment has always been clear. The UMD thought it could be written better but would not endorse it or suggest what parts were problematic. The only assistance offered was to use more "whereas" words.
          Risto the Great
          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

          Comment

          • Vangelovski
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 8531

            I have just noticed that Questions 8, 9 and 10 in the survey list the possible languages the respondent may speak as:

            English
            Macedonian
            Albanian
            Other

            Interesting to note that UMD felt Albanian should be given its own category rather than been grouped with other.
            If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

            The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

            Comment

            • indigen
              Senior Member
              • May 2009
              • 1558

              Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
              I have just noticed that Questions 8, 9 and 10 in the survey list the possible languages the respondent may speak as:

              English
              Macedonian
              Albanian
              Other

              Interesting to note that UMD felt Albanian should be given its own category rather than been grouped with other.
              You might find the answer in the following thread:

              2-04-2010, 05:45 PM #1
              aleksandrov

              UMD Policy on the Ohrid Framework Agreement

              Does the following public statement by the UMD organization amount to support for the Ohrid Framework Agreement or not?

              "UMD Remembers President Trajkovski

              Monday, 26 February 2007

              [...]

              http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=2617

              Comment

              • Rogi
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 2343

                Yes, I felt that question was quite odd too, given that the number of Albanians from Macedonia living in Australia is very, very minimal.

                But more importantly, it goes to the heart of the question of who is Macedonian and who the UMD view as Macedonian - is it anyone originating from the Republic of Macedonia, or does the term Macedonian represent an actual ethnic group? Because if this were a survey of the Macedonian community, meaning the ethnic Macedonians in Australia, then the options should be Macedonian or English or Other. But if this is a survey of the 'people from the Republic of Macedonia living in Australia' rather than the 'Macedonian Community' then so be it - if that's what the UMD views as 'Macedonian'.

                Comment

                • Rogi
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 2343

                  I suppose I'll answer my own post/question above.

                  The introduction to the survey reads:

                  "...The survey is about the ways in which connections with Macedonia are maintained by migrants, children of migrants and those who have a close connection with Macedonia..."

                  So this is not a survey of the Macedonian community, rather a survey of anyone with a 'close connection with Macedonia'.

                  I suppose this then also welcomes all the Pontian Greeks who settled in Aegean Macedonia, then moved to Australia and feel a 'close connection with Macedonia' to also fill in the survey.

                  There are far more people in Australia with a Roma background, originating from Macedonia, than there are Albanians - perhaps they should have given some more respect and there are even more Greeks originating from Macedonia (it does not say 'Republic of Macedonia'), perhaps Greek should have been an option under language more so than Albanian?

                  Comment

                  • Pelister
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 2742

                    This is UMD looking for some 'clout' where none exists.

                    The 'sample' will not be representative of the larger part of the Australian Macedonian diaspora, but it will be used nevertheless by UMD to present itself as the leading representative authority of the Macedonian diaspora in Australia.

                    These are the kind of 'top-down' tactics used by Macedonia's enemies over the last century - MPO, the 'Central Committee' in Sofia all tried to go over the heads of genuine Macedonian rank and file organisations. Same tactics.

                    This reminds me of the tens of thousands of signatures that UMD had collected behind some clever campagin slogans - just so it could (falsely) represent itself as being the representative body of over 70,000 Macedonians worldwide...etc.

                    Comment

                    • Vangelovski
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 8531

                      Originally posted by Pelister View Post
                      This reminds me of the tens of thousands of signatures that UMD had collected behind some clever campagin slogans - just so it could (falsely) represent itself as being the representative body of over 70,000 Macedonians worldwide...etc.
                      That petition was started in 2004 and was mean't to be sent to various governments. Six years later and its gone nowhere. While I was still at UMD I continually brought it up as asked why that petition was not being sent out only to come up against a wall of silence.

                      But now you've it the nail on the head Pelister - it was a massive stunt to claim support for an organisation that does not even believe in or act on the statements laid out in that petition.
                      If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                      The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                      Comment

                      • Soldier of Macedon
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 13670

                        Originally posted by Currency Trader
                        And you keep failing to even answer the first question with a simple yes or no - Do you have a problem that I support AMHRC campaign?
                        Keep failing, lol, I couldn't give a damn what or who a contradicting hypocrite supports.
                        I didn't know I was a UMD apologist.
                        Oh come now, of course you did, don't be so modest.
                        Secondly, is your role as admin to slander people who come to MTO?
                        How have I slandered you, by highlighting what you are? Don't be ashamed, you are what you are, and you, are an UMD apologist.
                        You seem to be stuck in a world where individuals cannot criticize the very same organisation that is also doing good things.
                        I live in a world where criticism arrives to those who deserve it, where past actions are considered, where both eyes are kept open and there is no room for compromise. Where do you live, in Meto's basement?
                        You will remind me of my supposedly wrongsided opinion each time somebody posts here. That's mature and constructive.
                        Absolutely, I will not allow incorrect and compromised views like yours to get a free reign here. By all means, state them, but be prepared to have your inconsistencies highlighted each time.
                        Besides your fellow admins - no not really.
                        That's not an answer. And it's not only the admins. You expect me to answer your irrelevance when you can't even answer a simple question like that?
                        Do you mind telling me what you do for living, and what education level you hold? If you don't mind of course.
                        Haha, this is gold, now you're even starting to sound like a Greek internet psycho, lol. What do you think I do for a living and what relevance does my job role have in the context of this discussion? How many qualifications do I need, and which one's, to be able to sit at the same table as the 'currency trader'? What do you do, money laundering? Humour me, because now you're sounding like a genuine clown and I am about due for a break so I need a laugh.
                        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                        Comment

                        • Vangelovski
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 8531

                          SoM,

                          Its highly likely that CT lives in Meto's Command Centre:

                          YouTube - command center lol
                          If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                          The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                          Comment

                          • Soldier of Macedon
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 13670

                            Given his latest rants, why not, lol.
                            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                            Comment

                            • Buktop
                              Member
                              • Oct 2009
                              • 934

                              Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                              Given his latest rants, why not, lol.
                              SoM, not that it will mean anything coming from me, but your conduct in this thread has been less than gentlemanly. I have seen you threaten ban's for the use of the word hell, but in this thread, you have not contributed much more than personal insult to CT.

                              We understand your personal distaste for the UMD, and CT has not been preaching UMD's greatness at all, merely their rational for including their name on the survey. If you have anything to contest about the survey, I suggest you do so, because you are in danger of becoming exactly that which you detest. You are exhibiting the same behavior as Maknews in regards to UMD, only favoring the criticism.
                              "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

                              Never once say you walk upon your final way
                              though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
                              Our long awaited hour will draw near
                              and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

                              Comment

                              • Soldier of Macedon
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 13670

                                Buktop, don't risk falling into the same trap as your buddy CT, I find it quite funny that both of you choose to only selectively criticise the UMD while turning a blind eye towards the rest of their idiocy. This is a great shame, because I consider neither of you stupid or ignorant, so the reasons for your persistent apologetic defence of the UMD can only be put down to some particular sympathies or bias. To be honest, I couldn't care less. At least you're an open UMD supporter, this 'CT' apparently thinks of himself a beacon of objectivity. In the case you haven't noticed, I am not the only one that is saying the opposite to what he is, nor am I the only person that is against the UMD and what they stand for.

                                Maknews lost the plot a long time ago, whereas my vision and reasons for having such views are clear. Question me on anything, I can write a book about how I was supportive of the UMD, how I defended them against others here and Maknews for months on end, and how, when I wanted to delve into the matter myself, I was treated like a nobody by Meto Koloski and those sidekicks of his who I can't be bothered mentioning. I don't know what you're trying to do here with your comment, but I suggest you step back a little, you know me pretty well now, you said your piece before and I respected your word, but you know that we sit on opposite sides of the fence with this issue and I have went in several circles time and again to convince you of the obvious. You almost saw the light, but you backed off, lest Meto lose another supporter. That's cool, in that regard you differ little from maknews himself, you people aren't supporting the UMD because it's the right thing for Macedonia, you're supporting them to keep some 'status quo', in the hope that those jesters will finally come good. Forgive me if I don't feel like supporting a baloney organisation that needs to vote on wether or not Macedonia should remain in these pathetic name talks. Where the rest of the world sees the obvious, you make excuses, like I said before, it's a big shame, your energy could be put to something more positive and concrete instead of these bananas who seem to have cheese and cracker parties on boats every few months, in the 'name' of Macedonia.

                                Don't ever forget this treachery:
                                http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/305/51/ Comment: In this letter the UMD make reference to the American policy on having Macedonia admitted to NATO by the 'provisional reference' with the acronym 'f.y.r.o.m', as per the Interim Accord, which the UMD believe had "normalized relations" between Macedonia and Greece.


                                Or the sentiments of 95% voters from a total of 46. The only other person that voted for the UMD aside from Meto is yourself, Buktop. You can disgregard the voters as nothing and consider yourself in the right, or you can consider logic. Just don't start pretending like this anti-UMD sentiment started with me.


                                By the way, I threatened nobody with a ban for using the word 'hell', I asked the individual to watch his mouth. Had I been in a civil discussion with yourself and you applied the same terminology, I would have told you the same. Don't drag others into the conversation.
                                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                                Comment

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