Kalash / Hunza tribes & the Burushaski Language

[Dimko-piperkata]

HUNZA ROYAL FAMILY guest @ MAKEDONIUM

HUNZA ROYAL FAMILY guest @ MAKEDONIUM - YouTube

[Dimko-piperkata]

Risto Popovski guest @ MAKEDONIUM - Hunza

Risto Popovski guest @ MAKEDONIUM - Hunza - YouTube

[George S.]

they are called the hunza people because of the valley is called the hunza valley.The correct name really is the kalash people.Also called the kaleshi in macedonian whivh means fair haired.

[lavce pelagonski]

Pakistan's ancient Kalash religious group disappearing as members convert to Islam

Nestled among the valleys of Pakistan's mountainous northwest is a tiny religious community known as the Kalash. The hard-to-reach valley where the Kalash live has attracted tourists for years, mainly for the scenery and for the people who are indigenous to the area.

The Kalash say that they are the descendants of Alexander the Great's Macedonian soldiers who passed through the area in 4 BCE. They practice polytheism — a belief in multiple deities — and have their own rituals. The Kalash traditions offer freedoms to women that are not common in Pakistan.

For generations, the tribe and the country's Muslim majority have co-existed peacefully, but there are now concerns about the future of this ancient culture.

"A lot of people are converting to Islam," Meetha Gul told Al Jazeera. She had left the village to pursue a higher education and then returned. "Religious scholars come here and tell people their lives will be better if they become Muslim. People need to tell their children that even if they go out and get an education or find a job, they need to preserve Kalash culture. If everyone converts, we will disappear."

There are around 4,000 Kalash. While tourism has brought badly needed income to the impoverished area, Muslims from nearby Afghanistan have also been arriving at the valley in recent years, pushing their conservative interpretation of Islam.

"We invite the Kalash to become Muslims," remarked Imam Maulama Jamroze, whose father had converted to Islam when Jamroze was a baby. "Islam is better for them. What use is their culture if they will burn in hell?"

http://www.goddiscussion.com/99025/pakistans-ancient-kalash-religious-group-disappearing-as-members-convert-to-islam/

[George S.]

they should hold on to what they know for the beter otherwise they will succumb to other religions.They & only they can do it for themselves no one else.

[Dimko-piperkata]

Is Burushaski Indo-European?

I try to shy away from linguistic controversies, and I doubt that the idea of the Indo-European origin of Burushaski will go down without a fight. The JIES is a little behind the times when it comes to online access, so I can't quite comment on the substantive part of Prof. Casule's theory.

We'll have to wait to see how much of this is press release hype and how much is new evidence. This idea has been in circulation for a while, but if there is indeed an issue of JIES dedicated to it, it probably deserves our attention.

Here is a paper critical of the thesis. Here is a seminar abstract by Prof. Casule with some more citations.

Cracking the code on the origins of a new European language
There is strong evidence to support the discovery of a new European language.

Macquarie University historical linguistics researcher, Associate Professor Ilija Casule, discovered that the language, known as Burushaski, which is spoken by about 90,000 people who reside in a remote area of North West Pakistan, is Indo-European in origin, not Indo-Iranian.

Professor Casule’s discovery, which has now been verified by a number of the world’s top linguists, has excited linguistics experts around the world. An entire issue of the eminent international linguistics journal The Journal of Indo-European Studies is devoted to a discussion of his findings later this month.

More than 50 eminent linguists have tried over many years to determine the genetic relationship of Burushaski. But it was Casule’s painstaking research, based on a comprehensive grammatical, phonological, lexical and semantic analysis, which established that the Burushaski language is in fact an Indo-European language most likely descended from one of the ancient Balkan languages. Professor Casule believes that language is most probably ancient Phrygian.

The Phrygians migrated from Macedonia to Anatolia (today part of Turkey) and were famous for their legendary kings who figure prominently in Greek mythology such as King Midas who turned whatever he touched into gold. They later migrated further east, reaching India. Indeed, according to ancient legends of the Burushashki people, they are descendants of Alexander the Great.

Tracing the historical path of a language is no easy task. Professor Casule said he became interested in the origins of Burushaski more than 20 years ago.

“People knew of its existence but its Indo-European affiliation was overlooked and it was not analysed correctly. It is considered a language isolate – not related to any other language in the world in much the same way that the Basque language is classified as a language isolate,” he said.

The remoteness of the area that was independent until the early 1970s when it became part of Pakistan, ensured Burushaski retained certain grammatical and lexical features that led Professor Casule to conclude it is a North-Western Indo-European language, specifically of the Paleobalkanic language group and that it corresponds most closely with Phrygian.

Dr Casule’s work is groundbreaking, not only because it has implications for all the Indo-European language groups, but also provides a new model for figuring out the origins of isolate languages – where they reside in the linguistic family tree and how they developed and blended with other languages to form a new language.

http://dienekes.blogspot.de/2012/06/is-burushaski-indo-european.html

[DedoAleko]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=29oN19MpMmI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sy4RXyjoU5o

[makedonche]

Dedo Aleko
Mnogou ubuvo!

[George S.]

looks like they are being converted to islam.Despite the greeks going in with their missionary schools telling them they are greek.They sepoused that they were macedonian.

[makedonche]

looks like they are being converted to islam.Despite the greeks going in with their missionary schools telling them they are greek.They sepoused that they were macedonian.

The Greeks will keep on claiming everything is Greek and try to put a copyright on everything, if the world lets them get away with it, some examples are - "Feta cheese", laughed out of the international court, "Elvis is Greek", the first man on the moon was Greek.....and so on, until someone wakes these imbeciles up!

[George S.]

you are right but i thought they think the world owes them something like they got a monopoly on everything.

[DedoAleko]

Modern genes yield atlas of ancient inter-ethnic sex

Encounters among populations left marks in the DNA of living people.



The Kalash people who live in the Hindu Kush Mountains of modern Pakistan carry genes that probably originated in Europe and might have been carried East by the Macedonian Army of Alexander the Great.
Expand

From invasions and migrations to slavery and trade, history is embroidered with events that led to interactions between previously separate populations — and, in many cases, hanky-panky. By mining genetic data from living people, researchers have now created a historical atlas of instances of such mixing.
The study, published today in Science1, uses statistical methods to make inferences about which populations interbred, and when, over the past 4,000 years. The findings are also presented as an interactive map. The authors sequenced DNA from 1,490 people from 95 genetically distinct populations around the world, and tested almost 500,000 single-letter variations in DNA known as single nucleotide polymorphisms, or SNPs.

Eighty of the populations showed evidence of genetic mixing. Many of the mixing events identified are consistent with historical records, validating the approach. For instance, records suggest that the Hazara people of Afghanistan and Pakistan are descended partially from Mongol warriors, and the study confirmed this, showing that Mongol DNA entered the Hazara around the time that the Mongol Empire was expanding.

Other mixing events inferred by the study were previously unknown and do not show up in historical records, but may be plausible. For instance, sequences in the DNA of the Tu people from modern China indicate that Europeans similar to modern Greeks mixed with an East Asian population around 1200 bc. The source of this European DNA might have been merchants travelling the Silk Road.

In another example, the DNA of the Kalash people, a population isolated in a remote valley in Pakistan, showed evidence of input from Europe or the Middle East (the researchers could not pin down a precise geographic location) between 990 and 210 bc — a period that overlaps with that of Alexander the Great. Local Kalash tradition holds that they are descended from Alexander the Great's army, although there is no historical record of such a mixture.

“They’ve developed a sophisticated statistical method for making inferences about human history,” says Joshua Akey, a geneticist at the University of Washington in Seattle who was not involved in the work. “Such advances are critical if we are going to read the stories of our past written in our genomes,” he adds. Akey recently led a similar study2 on European genomes, the results of which were published in January (see 'Modern human genomes reveal our inner Neanderthal'). Although he has not reviewed the latest paper1 in detail, he says that the authors' statistical method could be quite powerful and is a significant improvement on earlier approaches.

Mixed signals

Such genetic mapping is based on a genetic re-shuffling process called recombination. With the exception of the sex-determining chromosomes, every chromosome type in human cells occurs in two similar, but not identical, versions — one from each parent. But when it comes to creating the next generation, those two versions are merged into one chromosome by piecing together segments from each, and the resulting 'recombined' chromosomes are what goes into sperm and egg cells. The length of uninterrupted segments from each source decreases over successive generations, so the size of those segments serves as a timer: the longer the ancestral segments remain in modern-day genomes, the more recently the genetic mixing took place.
But using the DNA of living people has its limitations. For one, modern genomes will not always carry DNA that is a good approximation of that from the original source groups, especially for older mixing events where one of the ancestral populations might have died out without leaving any direct descendants. “Hopefully in future, we can find them by adding data from ancient DNA samples,” says Simon Myers, a statistician who specializes in bioinformatics at the University of Oxford, UK, and co-author of the latest study. It is also hard to precisely define sources of mixing when it occurred between genetically similar groups, and scenarios involving multiple waves of mixing over time or between multiple groups can be difficult to tease apart.

But Myers expects that larger sample sizes will improve resolution. “That will give us a deeper understanding of human history,” he says, “but it could also help us to understand how rare genetic variants, which can spread through mixing events, influence health and disease in different populations.”

izvor: http://www.nature.com/news/modern-ge...ic-sex-1.14718

[George S.]

da on you tube is a comparison between Ancient Macedonian (poken by Pakistani group kalesh people) & modern Macedonian. Ithink that will be good in comparison.

[Constellation]

In Search of a Greek Contribution to the Pathan Population.

In Search of a Greek Contribution to the Pathan Population.

When you start with the “Greekness" of everything, you are bound to find some “Greek”, but in this example, there is a whole lot more of “Macedonian” than “Greek”.

Article

European Journal of Human Genetics (2007) 15, 121–126. doi:10.1038/sj.ejhg.5201726; published online 18 October 2006
Y-chromosomal evidence for a limited Greek contribution to the Pathan population of Pakistan

Sadaf Firasat1, Shagufta Khaliq1, Aisha Mohyuddin1, Myrto Papaioannou2, Chris Tyler-Smith3, Peter A Underhill4 and Qasim Ayub1

1Biomedical and Genetic Engineering Division, Dr. AQ Khan Research Laboratories, Islamabad, Pakistan
2Unit of Prenatal Diagnosis, Center for Thalassemia, Laiko General Hospital, Athens, Greece
3The Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute, Hinxton, Cambridge, UK
4Department of Genetics, Stanford University, Stanford, CA, USA

Correspondence: Dr Q Ayub, Biomedical and Genetic Engineering Division, Dr AQ Khan Research Laboratories, GPO Box 2891, Islamabad 44000, Pakistan. Tel: +92 51 926 1142; Fax: +92 51 926 1144; E-mail:[email protected]

Received 16 November 2005; Revised 9 August 2006; Accepted 1 September 2006; Published online 18 October 2006.
Top of page
Abstract

Three Pakistani populations residing in northern Pakistan, the Burusho, Kalash and Pathan claim descent from Greek soldiers associated with Alexander's invasion of southwest Asia. Earlier studies have excluded a substantial Greek genetic input into these populations, but left open the question of a smaller contribution. We have now typed 90 binary polymorphisms and 16 multiallelic, short-tandem-repeat (STR) loci mapping to the male-specific portion of the human Y chromosome in 952 males, including 77 Greeks in order to re-investigate this question. In pairwise comparisons between the Greeks and the three Pakistani populations using genetic distance measures sensitive to recent events, the lowest distances were observed between the Greeks and the Pathans. Clade E3b1 lineages, which were frequent in the Greeks but not in Pakistan, were nevertheless observed in two Pathan individuals, one of whom shared a 16 Y-STR haplotype with the Greeks. The worldwide distribution of a shortened (9 Y-STR) version of this haplotype, determined from database information, was concentrated in Macedonia and Greece, suggesting an origin there. Although based on only a few unrelated descendants, this provides strong evidence for a European origin for a small proportion of the Pathan Y chromosomes.
Keywords:

population genetics, Pakistan, Greek, Y chromosome polymorphism

Results?

The Pathans were the only population among the three that claim Greek ancestry in which clade E was present. This branch is observed in Europe, Middle East, North and East Africa with a suggested origin in East Africa.24 Sub-clade E3b is common in Europe and probably originated in Africa.25 Compelling evidence in support of the genetic relationship between the Pathan and Greek E3b1 Y chromosomes was provided by the median-joining network (Figure 4). One Pathan shared a Y-STR haplotype, that included a duplication of 10 and 13 repeat units for the DYS425 locus, with three Greek individuals and the other was separated from this cluster by a single mutation, which enabled us to estimate the TMRCA (meanplusminusSD) using the Network software as between 2000plusminus400 and 5000plusminus1200 YBP depending upon the observed26 or inferred mutation rates,27 respectively. This coincides with the period of Alexander's invasion during 327–323 BC. This haplotype was not observed in any other E3b1-derived Pakistani Y chromosome but was highly specific for the Balkans – the highest frequency being in Macedonia.

But despite the highest frequency being in MACEDONIA, the researchers nonetheless state:

An extensive analysis of Y diversity within Greeks and three Pakistani populations – the Burusho, Kalash and Pathan – who claim descent from Greek soldiers allowed us to compare Y lineages within these populations and re-evaluate their suggested Greek origins. This study as a whole seems to exclude a large Greek contribution to any Pakistani population, confirming previous observations.7 However, it provides strong evidence in support of the Greek origins for a small proportion of Pathans, as demonstrated by the clade E network (Figure 4) and the low pairwise genetic distances between these two populations.

Which led this fellow, Steven Bird, to state the obvious:

From: "Steven Bird" <>
Subject: [DNA] "Greek" E3b1 contribution to Pathans of Pakistan actuallyMacedonian
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 08:05:23 -0400

OK, I've scanned the article itself and I must say that it is very
interesting and also frustrating. Interesting because it once again
confirms the Balkan origin of E3b1 (alpha), but fails to identify the
ethnicity of the ancestors correctly!! Time and again, the article refers
to the progenitors of the Pathan population in Pakistan as "Greek." It
becomes clear in context that the authors are referring to Macedonians as
Greeks. This identification is in itself controversial and may not be
correct.

Please see this 2001 medical study on the genetic makeup of Macedonians and
Greeks:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11260506&dopt=Abstract

entitled, "HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the
Greeks," by A. Arnaiz-Villena et al. (If the link has been split, copy it
and delete the carriage return after fcgi? and before cmd).

Here are the relevant conclusions of the above-cited article:

"The following conclusions have been reached: 1) Macedonians belong to the
"older" Mediterranean substratum, like Iberians (including Basques), North
Africans, Italians, French, Cretans, Jews, Lebanese, Turks (Anatolians),
Armenians and Iranians, 2) Macedonians are not related with geographically
close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum, 3)
Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan
(Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups."

In the current article on the Pathans, an assumption is made, alluded to
within the title itself, that Alexander the Great was Greek. What the
authors say that is helpful to understanding ancient population movements is
that the Pathan population of Pakistan has a tradition of descent from
members of Alexander the Great's army, which appears to be borne out also by
the genetic evidence for a strong presence of E3b1 (alpha presumed) - M78
among the Pathan male population. The authors also identify M78 as
originating in the Balkans.

They then proceed to muddy the waters badly by claiming that the the
following haplotype is "Greek":

DYS19=13
389i=13
389ii=30
390=24
391=10
392=11
393=13
438=10
439=12

Anyone who has worked with E3b1 for any length of time will recognize these
immediately as the ordinary modal STR values for the E3b1 subclade (probably
E3b1a2, although this still awaits the commercial availability of V13 for
proof.)

The authors entered this "Greek"haplotype at YHRD and stated in their
article that 53 individuals in a worldwide population sample of 7897
haplotypes were found that matched it. To quote:

"The contour map [of the distribution of this haplotype] shows a major
concentration around Macedonia and Greece, with a low scattering in other
European countries, Tunisia, West Africa and the Pathans. This gives a
strong indication of a European, possibly Greek, origin of these Pathan Y
chromosomes." Thus in this statement, they again conflate Macedonian and
Greek ancestry. (See above-linked abstract to the article, "HLA genes in
Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks.").

I decided to follow suit and enter the same data at YHRD. I entered the
above haplotype and came up with a list of the populations with matches to
this profile. What struck me immediately was the almost complete ABSENCE of
this haplotype in Greece itself!!!! The only exception was found in Thrace,
Greece, where 4 out of 41 samples showed this profile. Every other profile
was found outside of Greece itself, including 14/149 in Macedonia, 4/43 in
Krusevo, Macedonia (among the Aromun population there,) 8/453 in Stuttgart,
Germany, 5/35 in Sarajevo, 3/52 in Skopje, Macedonia, 2/30 in Tirana,
Albania, etc.

The following regions in Greece had NO presence for this profile in YHRD
(sample size in parenthesis):

Athens (101)
Central Greece (14)
Crete, Greece (8)
Epirus, Greece (14)
Macedonia, Greece (28) !!!!!!
Peloponnes, Greece (18)
Thessaly, Greece (15)

198 samples above, plus 37 out of 41 samples in Thrace, for a total of 235
samples found in Greece had NO appearance of this haplotype whatsoever. The
E3b1 modal appeared in just 4 out of 235 samples within the borders of
Greece itself and those in a region that was originally part of Thracia.
How can anyone say credibly that this group is representative of a displaced
Greek population? At the very least it is Macedonian and considering the
known composition of Alexander's army, may have been Thracian instead.

The problem, obviously, is with the misidentification of Alexander as a
Greek rather than a Macedonian by these researchers. If they had stated
that the Pathan population of Pakistan had been descended from Macedonians
who accompanied Alexander, I believe that they would have hit the mark.

One other paragraph is worth noting:

"This haplotype was not observed in any other E3b1-derived Pakistani Y
chromosome but was highly specific for the Balkans -- the highest frequency
being in Macedonia."

I was speechless. The right conclusion but the wrong description.

Steven Bird, DMA

[DraganOfStip]

Here are some links of threads in this forum connected to the above mentioned people in Pakistan that you could be interested in:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4900&highlight=kalash&page=2

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6193&highlight=kalash

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3339&highlight=kalash