Russia, Ukraine and the West

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  • Carlin
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2011
    • 3332

    1) Things are looking bad for Russians in Pavlovka. Naval infantry are currently taking unsustainable losses, an appeal has been made to Russian MoD. The fingers are once more pointed at an incompetent general in charge of the eastern district.

    2) LEAKED OUTLINE OF US DEAL OFFER TO KIEV DELIVERED BY SULLIVAN:

    - Kiev gets Kherson
    - Cedes already lost territories
    - Gets $50 billion and Russian frozen assets to rebuild
    - Gets electricity from Zap. NPP, agrees to Russian ownership
    Last edited by Carlin; 11-07-2022, 05:28 PM.

    Comment

    • Phoenix
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2008
      • 4671

      Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
      Serbia which was backed by Russia, enormously, during both WWs and the collapse of Yugoslavia has still somehow managed to become more EU friendly.
      Serbia, like every small nation has to carefully navigate a minefield of sometimes nefarious geopolitical machinations and the whims of supranational entities like the EU.

      Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
      ...Now simply take in perspective, 5 million starved Ukrainians during the Soviet Union, weak economy, lack of democracy and no EU/US benefits.
      No wonder, which side would any rational person pick.
      Not sure what your point is here, you're comparing a totalitarian lunatic of Georgian heritage to Putin...you're fucking nuts!
      In a perfect world devoid of the pursuit of superpower hegemony, I wonder what side the people of Hiroshima would have picked on August 6, 1945, or the people of Nagasaki on August 9?

      Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
      ...Putin is bringing the transgender insanity because he deeply knows he is inferior on making an actual reasonable excuse for his intentions.
      Seriously...WTF?

      Comment

      • Phoenix
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2008
        • 4671

        Originally posted by Carlin View Post
        1) Things are looking bad for Russians in Pavlovka. Naval infantry are currently taking unsustainable losses, an appeal has been made to Russian MoD. The fingers are once more pointed at an incompetent general in charge of the eastern district.

        2) LEAKED OUTLINE OF US DEAL OFFER TO KIEV DELIVERED BY SULLIVAN:

        - Kiev gets Kherson
        - Cedes already lost territories
        - Gets $50 billion and Russian frozen assets to rebuild
        - Gets electricity from Zap. NPP, agrees to Russian ownership
        Wars, Special Military Operations, call them what you will - they seldom go according to plan.

        Apparently both side are taking heavy losses in Pavlovka.

        This is a critical juncture in the fighting, Ukraine is throwing everything it has left to win small battles at a time when the Russians are redeploying forces and as the battlefield is being reshaped small cracks are beginning to appear that the Ukrainians will exploit for short term gains but they cannot win the war once the Russians are back at strength later this month.

        I've read that the 'deal' is simply a ploy to galvanise continued Western support for Zelenski at a time when many Western governments are showing reluctance to keep funding an indefinite and futile war effort on behalf of an increasingly stubborn Zelenski, who is showing no interest in a settlement but making ever more ridiculous demands for Western military assistance.
        Last edited by Phoenix; 11-07-2022, 09:25 PM.

        Comment

        • Risto the Great
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 15658

          Don't forget the importance of the mid term elections in USA.
          Small wins in Ukraine right now are very necessary from a marketing perspective. The game will be up soon thereafter. (Including sharemarket gains)
          Risto the Great
          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

          Comment

          • Risto the Great
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 15658

            Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
            Serbia which was backed by Russia, enormously, during both WWs and the collapse of Yugoslavia has still somehow managed to become more EU friendly.
            Macedonia became EU friendly too.
            And USA frinedly.
            And even Taiwan friendly for a moment.
            Whores can be friendly.
            What exactly are you saying?
            Risto the Great
            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

            Comment

            • tchaiku
              Member
              • Nov 2016
              • 786

              Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
              Serbia, like every small nation has to carefully navigate a minefield of sometimes nefarious geopolitical machinations and the whims of supranational entities like the EU.



              Not sure what your point is here, you're comparing a totalitarian lunatic of Georgian heritage to Putin...you're fucking nuts!
              In a perfect world devoid of the pursuit of superpower hegemony, I wonder what side the people of Hiroshima would have picked on August 6, 1945, or the people of Nagasaki on August 9?



              Seriously...WTF?

              I am saying that is completely reasonable for Ukraine (and with the people's freewill) to side with US given the history and the present day conditions. I pretty sure most Macedonians want to side with US too, at least if it was not for some modern day far-leftwing ideologies that have been manifesting.

              As for the last one Putin has started losing it completely about the West in some of his speeches or (?) messages where he brought LGBT issues out of nowhere. In case you did not know. You go figure.

              Comment

              • Vangelovski
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 8531

                Russia still fights like it has an unlimited supply of manpower and many of its strategies on tackling low morale and soldiers refusing to fight haven't changed since Trotsky first ordered the use of blocking units in 1918.

                Putin has also noted that up to 80,000 mobilized personnel have entered the combat zone as of November 7, with 50,000 operating within combat units.[92]

                Russian forces are continuing to subject newly mobilized men to poor living conditions that are leaving many men demoralized or sick or both. The Ukrainian Main Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported that Russian units in Belarus are mostly composed of newly mobilized men who live in field tents without proper sanitary conditions. The GUR noted that many mobilized men in Belarus are suffering from respiratory illnesses as a result of such unsuitable living conditions.[93] Belarusian doctors are reportedly overwhelmed with the number of ill mobilized servicemen, prompting Russian forces to deploy additional medical units to the Belarusian training grounds. The GUR added that regular Russian servicemen live in normal conditions and noted that there is an increasing number of ethnically charged conflicts between Belarusian and Russian servicemen. Social media footage also showed a serviceman with a Caucasian accent humiliating a Russian serviceman who was apologizing for offending his religion, indicating that Russian forces continue to face religious conflicts despite the Kremlin’s rhetoric of supporting Russia’s diversity.[94] There are also reported instances of harassment against mobilized men who return from the frontlines.[95]

                Russian forces continue to face challenges preventing desertion and disciplining mobilized men. Russian opposition outlets reported that families of 21 detained mobilized men from Primorsky Krai appealed to Russian authorities regarding their wrongful mobilization and their poor living conditions within a detention center in occupied Donetsk Oblast.[96] The relatives claimed that Russian commanders even threatened to kill the mobilized men if they continued to refuse to fight.[97] A pro-war Russian milblogger also noted that the relatives still cannot contact mobilized servicemen operating on the Kreminna-Svatove line due to the irresponsibility of Russian higher military command.[98] Russian police also failed to control 350 drunk mobilized men who arrived in Belgorod Oblast by rail.[99] Russian opposition outlets reported that Russian officials once again closed the Perevalsk detention center in occupied Luhansk Oblast due to increased public awareness and transferred detained mobilized personnel to an unspecified location.[100]

                Russian forces are also experiencing high casualty rates among mobilized men on the frontlines. One mobilized man who had survived on the Kreminna-Svatove frontline reported that over 500 mobilized personnel from Voronezh Oblast died as a result of Ukrainian shelling on their positions in Makiivka, Luhansk Oblast. The man noted that Russian commanders concentrated a large number of personnel in one area and forced them to dig trenches, resulting in only 41 individuals surviving Ukrainian artillery fire.[101] Local state outlet Ria Voronezh at first discredited the account as a “fake,” only to remove this statement on November 7 from its website.[102] Russian milbloggers questioned the authenticity of the report but still called on Russian commanders to address problems within their units so that more men do not spread damaging rumors regarding the Russian Armed Forces.[103] Russian volunteer battalions are also continuing to suffer losses, with Republic of Sakha’s volunteer unit “Bootur” reportedly returning to Russia with 13 of 105 volunteers.[104]

                Russian mobilized servicemen and their families continued to protest in select Russian regions. Social media footage showed Russian mobilized men rioting in Kazan, and some mobilized men engaged in a skirmish with Major General Kirill Kulakov due to poor living conditions and being provided 50-year-old guns.[105] Russian officials also published a video reportedly from two organizers of riots among mobilized men in Chuvash Republic thanking Russian officials for resolving the issues with promised financial compensation, but the video appears staged.[106] Russian men also continue to share their accounts of local government officials failing to provide promised payments on different Russian Telegram channels.[107] Relatives of mobilized personnel in Yemanzhelisk, Chelyabinsk Oblast, protested for the return of their loved ones who were mobilized without any training.[108] Local outlets reported that a man in Transbaikal attacked a military recruitment official when the official informed him about the death of a mobilized relative.[109] An elderly woman in Angarsk, Irkutsk Oblast, additionally attempted to set fire to a military recruitment center.[110]

                https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...ent-november-7
                Last edited by Vangelovski; 11-08-2022, 06:42 PM.
                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                Comment

                • Phoenix
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2008
                  • 4671

                  Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
                  I am saying that is completely reasonable for Ukraine (and with the people's freewill) to side with US given the history and the present day conditions. I pretty sure most Macedonians want to side with US too, at least if it was not for some modern day far-leftwing ideologies that have been manifesting.

                  As for the last one Putin has started losing it completely about the West in some of his speeches or (?) messages where he brought LGBT issues out of nowhere. In case you did not know. You go figure.
                  Before the conflict with Russia, Ukraine enjoyed (and still does) the status of one of the most corrupt nations in all of Europe, that was not Putin’s doing…when Putin talks of nazi glorification in Ukraine, he’s not making shit up…if Ukrainians want Western standards (whatever the fuck that means) they have to commit to higher personal and moral responsibilities…they can’t have both.

                  Putin hasn’t lost anything…you on the other hand…lol

                  Comment

                  • Phoenix
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2008
                    • 4671

                    Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                    Russia still fights like it has an unlimited supply of manpower and many of its strategies on tackling low morale and soldiers refusing to fight haven't changed since Trotsky first ordered the use of blocking units in 1918.
                    On the balance of things, I have absolutely no doubt that when you consider manpower advantages and deficits, the overwhelming advantage is with the Russian side.

                    The Russians went into this ‘Special Military Operation’ with a total combined force of some 250K, with the majority of boots on ground being the militia forces from Donetsk and Luhansk…the actual Russian contribution may not have been any greater than 80K and consisted mostly of artillery, aviation and special operation forces.
                    This would equate to a small fraction of Russia’s military manpower pool.

                    During the same period Ukraine started off with a manpower advantage of 3X over the Russians, since hostilities erupted Ukraine has lost >100K KIA and a further >100K injured and unable to resume the fight.

                    The cold reality is that Russia defeated Ukraine many months ago and is now engaged in the mother of proxy wars against some of NATO’s most belligerent and rabid ant-Russia members, hence Putin’s call up of an additional 300K reservists for the final push.

                    Ukraine has not got the manpower nor the military industrial complex geared to maintaining the fight against Russia…no matter how much money the west pours into this bottomless pit…every other pro-Ukraine perspective is to divorce oneself from reality and a complete fucking nonsense.

                    Comment

                    • Vangelovski
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 8531

                      Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
                      On the balance of things, I have absolutely no doubt that when you consider manpower advantages and deficits, the overwhelming advantage is with the Russian side.
                      I disagree. Russia does have about 3x the amount of manpower given that they have about 3x the population. But, Russia has undertaken a massive restructure of its armed forces since 2014. Its gone from a large standing conscript army with mass mobilisation in reserve, to a small standing army relying primarily on volunteers. As I've noted in previous posts, according to the Military Balance, published by the International Institute for Strategic Studies, the Russian army only has 280,000 active personnel. In theory, it also has about 2,000,000 (all services) conscripts that have served in the past 5 years. But these are poorly trained and have no actual combat experience. Further, conscripts are not normally trained for combat roles, they are used in support roles. Support roles are important, but Russia is now throwing them into combat.

                      Ukraine on the other hand, after 8 years of war in the Donbas, has approximately 1 million soldiers with actual combat experience and none of the morale issues facing the Russian army given they are fighting an existential threat.

                      The Russians went into this ‘Special Military Operation’ with a total combined force of some 250K, with the majority of boots on ground being the militia forces from Donetsk and Luhansk…the actual Russian contribution may not have been any greater than 80K and consisted mostly of artillery, aviation and special operation forces.
                      This would equate to a small fraction of Russia’s military manpower pool.
                      Again, according to the Military Balance, Donetsk and Luhansk have 20,000 and 14,000 personnel respectively. That is a total of 34,000. It is well established that Russia sent in approximately 200,000 soldiers in February and an unknown number more to replace casualties (consisting of national guard and border guard units that are not trained or equipped to fight wars). Anyone can google this. A list of Russian, Ukrainian, Donetsk and Luhansk units can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_...ion_of_Ukraine

                      During the same period Ukraine started off with a manpower advantage of 3X over the Russians, since hostilities erupted Ukraine has lost >100K KIA and a further >100K injured and unable to resume the fight.
                      Even the Russian Government hasn't claimed this many Ukrainian casualties but maybe you can point me to a source? If we go for the higher estimate of Russian casualties provided by the Ukrainian Government, then the Russians have lost 200,000 men as well (killed and wounded).

                      The cold reality is that Russia defeated Ukraine many months ago and is now engaged in the mother of proxy wars against some of NATO’s most belligerent and rabid ant-Russia members, hence Putin’s call up of an additional 300K reservists for the final push.
                      If the Russians defeated the Ukrainians months ago they would not have lost so much territory. If there was only some "rabid- anti-Russia" forces left, Russia would not need 300,000 men...but then again, they are untrained farmers.

                      Ukraine has not got the manpower nor the military industrial complex geared to maintaining the fight against Russia…no matter how much money the west pours into this bottomless pit…every other pro-Ukraine perspective is to divorce oneself from reality and a complete fucking nonsense.
                      Ukraine definitely has the manpower and it has many more trained and combat experienced soldiers than Russia has. Russia is now resorting to conscripting men who were never trained for combat roles and have no combat experience. Neither Russia nor Ukraine have the necessary military industrial capacity (Russia due to sanctions and Ukraine due to having lost it in the Donbas). But Ukraine does not need it because it's being supplied by the West.
                      Last edited by Vangelovski; 11-09-2022, 04:09 AM.
                      If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                      The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                      Comment

                      • Carlin
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2011
                        • 3332

                        "Please watch this detailed explanation from former CIA analyst Frank Snepp about how the newspapers and magazines you were taught to regard as mainstream and reliable have always eagerly served as disinformation megaphones for the CIA and the US Security State. That's still true."


                        Comment

                        • Carlin
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2011
                          • 3332

                          1) BREAKING: Russian official Kirill Stremousov dies in "car crash" in Kherson region

                          2) The city of Kherson and adjacent settlements cannot be supplied and function — General Surovikin
                          Last edited by Carlin; 11-09-2022, 10:56 AM.

                          Comment

                          • Carlin
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2011
                            • 3332

                            Moment Surovikin and Shoygu admit defeat in the Kherson direction and announce the withdrawal of troops:


                            (The Ukrainian Army has captued Kalynivske in the Kherson region)
                            Last edited by Carlin; 11-09-2022, 10:02 PM.

                            Comment

                            • Vangelovski
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 8531

                              Looks like Kherson is back in Ukrainian hands.

                              If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                              The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                              Comment

                              • Risto the Great
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 15658

                                Interesting perspective:





                                ‼️THIS EXPLAINS A _LOT_‼️ READ THINK SHARE ‼️

                                Межрегиональная общественная организация "Союз десантников"

                                🔥Attacks on Ukraine's railroad and critical infrastructure prevent Russian oligarchs from delivering, Sivkov said.

                                The Ukrainian railway infrastructure has not yet been destroyed, because Russian, Ukrainian and Western oligarchs are interested in this, continuing to earn money together on business schemes that have not changed since the start of the NWO.

                                Konstantin Sivkov, Deputy President of the Russian Academy of Missile and Artillery Troops, stated this on ORT.

                                According to Sivkov, Russian titanium is delivered to the West via Ukrainian railways, on which a number of industries, including the military, critically depend.

                                “Under the existing sanctions that everyone must comply with, there is only one “gray” communication that connects Russia and Europe. These are Ukrainian railways.

                                Russia produces 87% of the world's titanium. All this titanium used to go to the needs of the Soviet Union - submarines according to the American classification "Alpha", according to ours - "Lira" of the 705th project - these were boats made entirely of titanium hulls. 3.5 thousand tons of titanium. The Americans were shocked, because titanium is considered to be at the level of gold in terms of value.

                                After the destruction of our country by the thieves' nomenclature of the Soviet Union, titanium became “not needed” here, since there was an interest of the West, primarily the United States, to get this titanium. The whole titan went to the West.

                                They began to make aircraft wings from titanium, the Excalibur shells for the M777 cannon, which is used against us today, are made from our titanium. If titanium stops deliveries now, then all this will stop. This is worse than gas, because the construction of the latest combat aircraft depends on titanium, among other things.

                                Therefore, our oligarchy, the Ukrainian oligarchy and the West are objectively interested in ensuring that this railway communication runs smoothly,” Sivkov said.

                                The main (90%) volume of Western military and material assistance to the Kyiv regime, which lost over 70% of the weapons available on February 24, comes by rail from western Ukraine (Lviv), bordering Poland and Slovakia.

                                Vulnerabilities - three bridge crossings within the range of tactical missiles and airborne forces, which can be destroyed by three pinpoint strikes at known coordinates. In this case, communications that support the viability and military stability of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the regime as a whole will be destroyed with the prospect of restoration at least a month or two.

                                Alternative trucking by road does not compensate for the logistical disaster. However, this does not happen, just as many enterprises of the basic economic and defense structure controlled by Kyiv avoid missile and bomb raids.

                                Export goods and products manufactured at the enterprises of Ukrainian oligarchs and their Russian partners are also exported along the mentioned railway routes in the opposite direction, to the west. After all, after the blockade of air communications, maritime transport and international motor transport, the railway, which was removed from the limits of Western sanctions, remained the only logistical export-import communicator.

                                Rear Admiral John Kirby, a spokesman for the Pentagon, said that, contrary to the logic of hostilities, US intelligence did not record a single attempt by the Russian Armed Forces and the LDNR by any means to block the flow of American and European weapons coming to the disposal of the front-line units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine from late February to mid-April.

                                Probably, this explains the "indistinct" position of the majority of the Russian oligarchy and many of the most influential figures in the Russian Forbes list in relation to the US and EU hybrid aggression against Russia, including its most sensitive component - the fighting in Ukraine, and this also explains the strange course of the special operation.

                                The country must know its "heroes"...
                                Risto the Great
                                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

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