BREXIT - Britain will be out of the EU!

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  • DraganOfStip
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2011
    • 1253

    #16
    The leader of Sinn Fein,the IRA's political wing in Northern Ireland,Declan Kearney,stated "the British government has lost it's mandate to represent the economical and political interests of the people of Northern Ireland" and that "yesterday's results of the voting in Northern Ireland represent the will of the people to unite with Ireland".
    Can Brexit give Northern Ireland what the IRA failed to do through terrorism over the years? Will Queen Elizabeth again send the tanks and the army to intervene in Northern Ireland to stop their unification with Ireland?
    ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
    ― George Orwell

    Comment

    • DraganOfStip
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2011
      • 1253

      #17
      Sinn Fein calls for Irish unity poll as Brexit fallout begins (Reuters)



      Northern Ireland's deputy leader Martin McGuinness called for a vote to unite the two sides of the Irish border on Friday, as stocks tumbled and the damaging economic and political fallout from Britain's decision to quit the EU were immediately felt.

      Ireland has the EU's fastest-growing economy but also more to lose than any other member state from Brexit with far-reaching implications for its trade, economy, security of energy supplies and peace in British-ruled Northern Ireland.

      After 56 percent of Northern Irish voters sought to remain in the EU compared to the 52 percent of the United Kingdom as a whole who voted leave, Sinn Fein's McGuinness said it was imperative that London called a referendum on a united Ireland.

      "The British government now has no democratic mandate to represent the views of the North in any future negotiations with the European Union and I do believe that there is a democratic imperative for a 'border poll' to be held," McGuinness told national Irish broadcaster RTE.

      "The implications for all of us on the island of Ireland are absolutely massive. This could have very profound implications for our economy (in Northern Ireland)."

      The call from Sinn Fein, Northern Ireland's largest Irish nationalist party, was later rebuffed by First Minister Arlene Foster.

      Irish Prime Minister Enda Kenny, who has said his government had a full-scale contingency plan in place should its nearest neighbor and largest trade partner vote to leave, called an emergency cabinet meeting shortly after the result.

      The outcome has very significant implications for Ireland and the EU as a whole, a government statement said.

      "UNAMBIGUOUSLY NEGATIVE"

      Ireland's central bank had warned that a withdrawal would hurt economic growth and jobs and significantly impact the financial sector, while a government-commissioned report found it could cut trade with Britain by at least 20 percent.

      Irish banks, whose exposure to the UK accounts for around 21 percent of total assets, led the Irish stock market nine percent lower, with shares in Bank of Ireland and permanent tsb down 21 percent and 17 percent down by 0845 GMT.

      Europe's largest airline by passenger numbers Ryanair, building materials group Kingspan and packaging producer Smurfit Kappa also fell sharply. The local bourse was down by as much as 16 percent earlier on Friday.

      The yield on Ireland's benchmark 10-year bonds [IE10YT=TWEB] was marginally higher at a near record low 0.78 percent.

      Finance Minister Michael Noonan said earlier this week that an estimated cumulative Brexit-related hit on the Irish economy of as much as 1.6 percent of GDP would be "containable".

      As the UK voted on Thursday, Noonan told parliament that while the downside was "definite", any upside was only speculative, referring to the possibility that some companies keen to stay in the EU might move from Britain to Ireland.

      Irish exporters will be the first to suffer, as the pound weakened significantly against the euro, making their euro-priced goods more expensive. Foreign Minister Charlie Flanagan told Reuters on Wednesday that the government will have to consider helping firms exporting into Britain.

      Farmers and food producers, major UK suppliers, are especially vulnerable.

      "This development is unambiguously negative for the Irish economy," said Philip O'Sullivan, chief economist at Investec Ireland.

      BORDER CONTROLS

      Of most concern to Dublin is the impact on Northern Ireland, which has the only land frontier between the United Kingdom and the rest of the EU. It was marked by military checkpoints until a 1998 peace deal ended three decades of sectarian violence.

      Flanagan said the reintroduction of a hard border would have to be considered in any negotiation and that the return of controls, for customs or security, could pose a difficult challenge for the peace process.

      The dismantling of military border posts was a key aspect of the peace deal between Catholic nationalists seeking a united Ireland and Protestant unionists who wanted to keep Northern Ireland British. Over 3,600 died in the conflict.

      Northern Ireland's pro-British First Minister Foster dismissed the call by her deputy, McGuinness, for a vote on Irish unity as "opportunistic".

      Britain's Secretary of State for Northern Ireland may call such a vote at any time, according to the 1998 agreement. It also specifies that the Secretary "shall" order a referendum if it appears likely that a majority of those voting would seek to form part of a united Ireland.

      "There is no way even if there was a border poll that it would be in favor of a united Ireland," Democratic Unionist Party leader Foster told Northern Ireland's Radio Ulster.

      (Additional reporting by Amanda Ferguson in Belfast; Editing by Stephen Addison)
      ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
      ― George Orwell

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      • DraganOfStip
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2011
        • 1253

        #18
        Scotland's future is in EU, minister says as Brexit looms (Reuters)



        Scotland sees its future in the European Union despite Britain's vote to leave, First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said on Friday, raising the specter of a new Scottish independence vote and the possible dissolution of the United Kingdom.

        Scotland voted by a margin of 62 percent to 38 percent to remain in the EU in a referendum on Thursday that put it at odds with Britain as a whole, which voted 52-48 in favor of Leave.

        "Scotland has delivered a strong, unequivocal vote to remain in the EU, and I welcome that endorsement of our European status," said Sturgeon, head of the Scottish National Party.

        Former first minister Alex Salmond explicitly said Scotland is now likely to push for a second independence referendum after the conditions spelled out in the SNP manifesto before reelection in May appeared to have been met.

        One key reason Scots rejected independence in a referendum almost three years ago was because independence meant leaving the EU too. After Thursday's vote, the question is whether some Scots who wavered but eventually voted to stick with the UK in 2014, may now prefer to join the secessionists

        Splitting Scotland from the UK would end three centuries of shared history, upending another successful economic relationship shortly after the now-impending divorce between Britain and the EU.

        Most voters in Northern Ireland also voted to remain and Irish nationalist leaders there called for a poll on leaving the United Kingdom and uniting with Ireland.

        Calling a new Scottish vote would not be quick or simple and the SNP, marked by caution since Sturgeon took over as leader, would want to first ensure a new vote could be won.


        Sturgeon would have to build a robust economic independence strategy to convince those emotionally persuaded in 2014 but not economically so.

        She would also have to make sure that the maelstrom around Britain's EU exit does not sweep away some of the support the SNP currently has.

        There are other big factors hindering a divorce. One may be fears that a lightweight EU, without Britain, is a less attractive partner for Scotland, which sends two thirds of its output to the rest of the UK.

        Another rests on concerns about what a border between England and Scotland would do to both security and the economy.

        "It could be that in the panic that ensues after a British exit, some people might want to stick with what we still have,” said an SNP lawmaker speaking on condition of anonymity.

        Polls do not indicate that support for secession has changed much since 2014, but there are several other factors, beyond leaving the EU, which mean that could change.

        The biggest is Sturgeon herself, a skilled politician, highly rated by both political friends and foes.


        Yet Sturgeon needed to play it cautiously for "good reason," said Anand Menon of think tank UK in a Changing Europe.

        "Nicola Sturgeon knows that if Scotland is independent and England is out of the EU, you have an external EU border between Scotland and England. An external border means the prospects of terrorists, its means the prospect of different regulations, and trade will be obstructed," Menon said.

        Many voters remain skeptical but acknowledge the departure of Britain from the EU shone a new light on the issue.

        "The SNP will have to come back with a better argument for independence in a European context to convince me," said Catherine, a 41-year-old operations manager from Aberdeen.

        "If they come back with some real proper facts and figures I would think about it. We’re a small country, we definitely don’t want to be on our own."

        (Reporting By Elisabeth O'Leary; Editing by Mark John)
        Last edited by DraganOfStip; 06-24-2016, 06:06 AM.
        ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
        ― George Orwell

        Comment

        • vicsinad
          Senior Member
          • May 2011
          • 2337

          #19
          Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
          The BREXIT referendum has succeeded. This is a major blow for the EU, that biased and corrupt organisation that has treated Macedonia so unfairly since our own independence. The problem (or not?) for the UK now is that the Scots may again vote for independence (which I support fully). The erroneous border that separates Ireland from its northern part will also be another factor which will require assessment. A Europe of sovereign states may again be on the horizon. Macedonia pay attention, especially the politicians with deluded EU aspirations.
          Yes, EU is corrupt and biased and has treated Macedonia poorly. I think the EU has been useful in some regards, but overall it causes more problems than produces benefits.

          Yet, if we're asking Macedonia to pay attention, are we asking them to pay attention to Scotland and Northern Ireland wanting out of the UK so they can re-join the EU? It's ironic that Scotland and N. Ireland may want sovereignty when it comes to their relation with England but not with Europe. Or are we asking Macedonians to pay attention to that part of the driving force for the Brexit, which revolved around racist attitudes toward foreigners, and not just against "Muslims" but also toward Eastern Europeans and others?

          I understand and support the economic and sovereignty arguments for the Brexit, but I'm still cautious as to being joyful about the results, especially any trends that might arise from them.

          Comment

          • vicsinad
            Senior Member
            • May 2011
            • 2337

            #20
            Originally posted by Phoenix View Post

            Nice to often hear references to Australia and New Zealand (and Canada) as great examples of countries doing a great job on the international stage all on their own.
            This isn't quite accurate. Some organizations and pacts that Australia are in include APEC, WTO, ANZUS, IMF and several others that make them examples of Australia not really going at it alone. These aren't meaningless organizations that have minimal impact on Australia's economy, security and sovereignty.

            Then let's not forget about Canada being a member of NATO, G7, ICC, APEC, WTO and dozens of others.

            Comment

            • Liberator of Makedonija
              Senior Member
              • Apr 2014
              • 1595

              #21
              Britain need a "brexit" from Ireland that's for sure
              I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

              Comment

              • Vangelovski
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 8531

                #22
                Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
                This isn't quite accurate. Some organizations and pacts that Australia are in include APEC, WTO, ANZUS, IMF and several others that make them examples of Australia not really going at it alone. These aren't meaningless organizations that have minimal impact on Australia's economy, security and sovereignty.

                Then let's not forget about Canada being a member of NATO, G7, ICC, APEC, WTO and dozens of others.
                There's a big difference between these international organisations and the European Union, which is a federation of states.
                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                Comment

                • vicsinad
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2011
                  • 2337

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                  There's a big difference between these international organisations and the European Union, which is a federation of states.
                  That's partly true. The EU is not quite a federation of states akin to what the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia were, for example. Nations in the EU still enjoy significant sovereignty.

                  Still, there are plenty of other countries outside of Australia, NZ, and Canada that are not a member of a "federation of states" similar to the EU. This does not mean they're going at it alone when they are a member of dozens of other or little international organizations that impact their economy, security and sovereignty.

                  But point taken.

                  Comment

                  • Gocka
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2012
                    • 2306

                    #24
                    I think if there is anything Macedonians should take notice of, is that Britons made a bold choice based on their own personal feelings and not the will of the talking heads. Even though the remain camp was filled with pop culture figures, politicians, and the mass media, somehow it wasn't enough to convince the average person. This means that despite all the pressures on democracy, it can still exist. So Macedonians should not feel as if they can not choose their destiny. If the people as a whole demand something it can happen regardless of what the forces at play want. I agree that the sentiment that drove the leave camp had some racism attached to it, but I really think this has more to do with peoples ability to choose rather than what motivated their choice. Another thing that Macedonians should take note of is the fearlessness. For months the public were being warned of economic meltdown, job losses, pension declines, and total anarchy. Despite all the doomsday talk, the majority still said F U, we will figure it out, with no guarantees that they will be better off. There may be some near to mid term pain but they were willing to bear it for the prospect of future liberty. The average Brit has a lot more to lose than the average Macedonian, and yet they were not afraid.

                    Comment

                    • vicsinad
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2011
                      • 2337

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Gocka View Post
                      I think if there is anything Macedonians should take notice of, is that Britons made a bold choice based on their own personal feelings and not the will of the talking heads. Even though the remain camp was filled with pop culture figures, politicians, and the mass media, somehow it wasn't enough to convince the average person. This means that despite all the pressures on democracy, it can still exist. So Macedonians should not feel as if they can not choose their destiny. If the people as a whole demand something it can happen regardless of what the forces at play want. I agree that the sentiment that drove the leave camp had some racism attached to it, but I really think this has more to do with peoples ability to choose rather than what motivated their choice. Another thing that Macedonians should take note of is the fearlessness. For months the public were being warned of economic meltdown, job losses, pension declines, and total anarchy. Despite all the doomsday talk, the majority still said F U, we will figure it out, with no guarantees that they will be better off. There may be some near to mid term pain but they were willing to bear it for the prospect of future liberty. The average Brit has a lot more to lose than the average Macedonian, and yet they were not afraid.
                      That's a good way of phrasing it. I think most of us here will agree that Macedonians have been clinging on to EU and NATO as saviors instead of looking to themselves as saviors, and that Macedonia doesn't need these organizations to survive and thrive.

                      The EU won't let Macedonia be "Macedonia", and as members of EU, Bulgaria and Greece still have not provided their ethnic Macedonian minorities basic rights and freedoms. The EU has failed Macedonia and Macedonians on these aspects, and Macedonia can pursue that without the EU.

                      Regarding the economy, the EU won't guarantee a stable or prosperous economy. Rather, most Macedonians will see it as an opportunity to leave Macedonia to find work. There might be some more investments in business and infrastructure, but always with certain conditions at unknown costs.

                      Comment

                      • DraganOfStip
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2011
                        • 1253

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Gocka View Post
                        Even though the remain camp was filled with pop culture figures, politicians, and the mass media, somehow it wasn't enough to convince the average person.
                        Majority of Brits aged up to 49 years opted for "remain".
                        Stats show that three-quarters of the youth aged to 24 opted for "remain",while people aged 65 or older voted 61% for "leave".
                        This means the referendum was decided by people that will live the least in an "independent" Britain, and the people that wanted to stay in EU will spend most of their lives with this decision.
                        Somehow ironic isn't it?

                        ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
                        ― George Orwell

                        Comment

                        • Phoenix
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2008
                          • 4671

                          #27
                          Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
                          This isn't quite accurate. Some organizations and pacts that Australia are in include APEC, WTO, ANZUS, IMF and several others that make them examples of Australia not really going at it alone. These aren't meaningless organizations that have minimal impact on Australia's economy, security and sovereignty.

                          Then let's not forget about Canada being a member of NATO, G7, ICC, APEC, WTO and dozens of others.
                          Vic,

                          In regard to APEC, it's purely a trading bloc...ANZUS is a military alliance...neither example is close to what the EU or NATO are to the UK. As for the IMF and WTO, both institutions are available to all UN members.

                          My point was that Australia and New Zealand (and to a lesser extent Canada) are all doing very well (more so AU and NZ) without being in a federal type of alliance that the EU provides its members and the obvious loss of sovereignty of such an arrangement.

                          The UK or even England alone can now plot a course specific to her own needs, what a beautiful alternative...she can now engage with the family of nations on her terms...she will use her best resources as she has always done (financial services is one area of excellence) whilst opening the rest of her industry to market forces.
                          The UK has a long history of innovation, engineering, industry and financial services experience, now they're in a wonderful position to fully utilize their potential.

                          Australia has done it, so has Nee Zealand without anything remotely resembling the EU...these two nations at the arse end of the world were essential cut adrift from 'mother' Englad the minute she joined the EEC...I can now see the UK reinventing itself into something even better.

                          Comment

                          • vicsinad
                            Senior Member
                            • May 2011
                            • 2337

                            #28
                            Such as an individual's relationship to the nation, a nation's relationship to the world is a delicate, if not impossible, balancing act of individual rights with the interests and needs of the greater community. Nations, like individuals, give up a little bit of sovereignty and freedom to be a part of a larger community. At one point, the majority UK citizens thought it would benefit them to be a member of the EU. Now a majority don't. All nations ride this pendulum throughout the course of time, sometimes giving up more/less sovereignty in order to meet other needs as deemed necessary.

                            For example, Australia, NZ and Canada are part of the Commonwealth of Nations, while which being nowhere restrictive as the EU, does have an impact on economy and law, where the law and finance ministers of these nations get together to discuss how they can use their power and authority to influence a common policy in their respective nations. All these intergovernmental organizations that Australia, NZ and Canada are a member of do chip away at national sovereignty in order to achieve common goals.

                            Sure, the EU is more restrictive on issues of sovereignty, but the members of EU are each UN members equal to those of Canada, Australia and NZ. The EU members have formed a pact/union that they believe will benefit them economically and socially. Whether or not it's true is a different matter.

                            Comment

                            • Bill77
                              Senior Member
                              • Oct 2009
                              • 4545

                              #29
                              Sorry...... But this is to funny to let it pass by


                              Ok now carry on
                              http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

                              Comment

                              • Bill77
                                Senior Member
                                • Oct 2009
                                • 4545

                                #30
                                On a serious note..... I applaud the citizens of the UK. They ignored the fear mongers lies and actually went ahead with it and voted to leave and by this told the globalist elites to go to hell. They had enemies/opposition including some who were assumed to be closest friends USA and its leader Jihadi Obama and will have more now that this leave result has been confirmed.
                                But I'm with Winston Churchill on this, who once said......
                                "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life"

                                Mostly I applaud the Brits on this.
                                64 million citizens...... (apart from one lunatic that killed Jo Cox) it was a orderly, civilised, peaceful referendum.

                                Can one imagine what the streets of Macedonia, population of 2 million would be like pre and post referendum? We would have Albanians taking up arms, liberal scum destroying property, international organisations meddling and threatening the nation, embargoes etc etc.
                                Last edited by Bill77; 06-24-2016, 06:08 PM.
                                http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

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