National Census' in Greece

[Soldier of Macedon]

https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Greece_Census

Some early censuses were taken in different places and for different purposes. A census of Crete from 1644 and census records from some areas of Peloponnesus prior to 1820 taken during Venetian rule are located in Venice, Italy. Turkish rulers took frequent censuses, including one in the late 1600s, 1718, 1719, and others through 1798. In its early years of self-rule, Greece took a census in 1828 and 1830. A department of national statistics was established in 1834. A yearly census was taken from 1836–1845 and in 1848, 1853, and 1856. Later on, a census was taken in 1861, 1870, 1879, 1889, 1896, 1907, 1920, 1928, 1940, 1951, 1961, 1971, 1981, and 1991. With the addition of new territory, a special census of newly acquired areas was taken in 1865, 1881, 1900, 1913, and 1947. A special, voluntary census of refugees from Asia Minor was taken in 1923.

Of course, nothing regarding ethnicity or language, as had been the case in past Greek census'.

http://www.statistics.gr/StatMenu_eng.asp

If anybody does have census data on the elusive population of Greece, particularly from the 19th century, do share it, even if you are Greek, it's time to face the music so you may as well lead from the front.

[Pelister]

http://www.jstor.org/stable/pdfplus/2220533.pdf

I hope the link works.

Just a bit of commentary on Greek census data. Note the comment that many people before the 1907 date refused to take part in the census.

[Pelister]

Article by Pallis on 1928 census.

http://www.jstor.org/stable/pdfplus/1785338.pdf

[Pelister]

I don't have access to this journal.

Counting Bodies, Shaping Souls: The 1903 Census and National Identity in Ottoman Macedonia
by İpek K. Yosmaoğlu
International Journal of Middle East Studies, Vol. 38, No. 1 (Feb., 2006), pp. 55-77
Published by: Cambridge University Press

[Soldier of Macedon]

Lets look at it from a chronological perspective, at the time of independence, Greece was reckoned to be have about 1,000,000 population, 200-250,000 of which were obviously Albanian. That amounts to a quarter of the population, and given the domination of the Greek language through the churches and schools sponsored and controlled by the Patriarchate of Constantinople, the number of Albanians would likely have been much higher, not to mention those 'Greeks' of Albanian descent. What about the number of people that were of Vlach, Slavic and Jewish origin that populated urban centres and regions in the Peloponnese and Attica, what was their amount at the time of independence?

What hapenned to the Venetians and other Latins and westerners?

How many Albanians within the population of the Ionian Islands which were ceded to Greece by Great Britain in 1864, and their numbers?

How many people from Thessaly were of Vlach, Slavic and Albanian origin when the territory was absorbed within Greek borders in the year 1881?

What was the population of Macedonia, Thrace and the rest of the islands when their were awarded to Greece as a gift by the Western Powers after the Balkan Wars in 1912-3?

What was the population and its numbers that arrived in Greece after the Christian-Muslim population exchange carried out by Greece and Turkey in the 1920's?

------------------------------------------------------


In the Greek Census of 1928, which despite its clear bias still reveals important information about the population of Greece, records the total amount of people in the country at 6,204,684, of which 5,759,523 are Greek-speakers, but only 5,716,100 Orthodox Greek-speakers. When 1,300,000 Christian Asian refugees are subtracted from that figure, it leaves 4,416,100 apparent Orthodox Greek-speakers in Greece's ever fluctuating borders between the period of her occupation of Macedonia and Thrace to the early 1920's.

Given that the Greek Census records a mere 8,773 Albanians, most of which are Muslims, one would have to ask what happened to the 250,000 Albanians of almost a century ago?

[Risto the Great]

I wonder how Macedonians would have interacted with these Slavic tribes had they avoided the machinations of Greek nationalism in the 19th century. Do you think it would have been like Greeks and Cypriots? This is my belief.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I think it would have been very similar to that, given that the Macedonians would be the closest of the Slavic-speaking nations to them. Furthermore, it is more than likely that they would have also developed the definite article given their geographic position.

They seem to be strongest in the Peloponnese, although they are scattered around Attica, Thessaly and Epirus, I think they would have naturally been drawn to us had they escaped Greek propaganda, as a people called the 'Moreans'.

[Soldier of Macedon]

All or part of this article was on Vinozito's website but I cannot seem to locate it now. It show how the Greek Census of the 1920's recorded people who's language was identified as Macedonian, hence, in Greek, Makedonika.

http://www.florina.org/html/2000/200..._language.html

WHO SAYS THERE ARE NO MINORITY LANGUAGES IN GREECE?

It is widely known that Greece refuses to acknowledge the existence of national minorities and minority languages. Similarly, in the Greek census of 1961, 1971, 1981 and 1991 any mention of one's mother tongue is absent. This is not by chance but, rather, a deliberate policy of the Greek government. In the earlier census of 1940 and 1951 one can find such declarations as "Slavic" language. Whereas, in the census of 1928 one can find a language declaration of "Slav Macedonian."

However, in the census of 1920, immediately after Greece's acquisition of the "New Territories" the government of the day offers some revealing information. In the census of 19 December, 1920, the official Greek census form had a separate area asking: "what is your mother tongue? What is the language you speak at home? If your mother tongue is not Greek do you understand Greek? This census document can be found in the book by M. Houliarakis (Geografiki, dioikitiki kai plithismiaki ekseliksi tis Ellados tom G' page 363)

The data obtained from the census of 1920 offers great detail about the population to the point of distinguishing between deaf males and deaf females. It also includes the data on language and mother tongue.
Unfortunately, the census information relating to the population of the "New Territories" was never made public. This information preceded the exchanges of Christian and Muslim populations between Turkey and Greece or the so-called "voluntary" population exchanges between Greece and Bulgaria.

At that time Greece only published the results from the geographic area of "old Greece" (Sterea, Evoia, Thessalia, Arta, Ionian Islands, Cyclades, Peloponese...). Five volumes containing census data from the "New Territories," which included information on religion and language, were prohibited from being made public.

In the archives of the Census Council or the General Archives of the Greek state we shall not find census data on the northern territories (the new territories of Macedonia and Western Thrace) for the census period of 1920.

However, page 182 of the volume of census data for 1920 (published in 1929) for the area of Trikala (in Thessaly and Arta just south of the new territories) the following linguistic categories are reported for mother tongue:

Greek, Spanish, Romi, Koutsovlach, Albanian, Bulgarian, Serbian and 37 individuals from Trikala who declared their mother tongue as Macedonian.

http://www.florina.org/html/2000/2000_minority_language/2000_popis2.html

This is official census data published by the Greek government wherein, not only is the Macedonian language documented by the census authority but it is rightly distinguished from Bulgarian and Serbian.
One can now appreciate why the 1920 census results for the "New Territories" have gone missing.

We would like to thank Mr. Dimitrios Lithoksoou for uncovering this data, which we published in Volume 5 of our magazine, Nova Zora (New Dawn). Mr. Lithoksoou has his own Web site with several pages of interest to the Macedonians of Greece.

[The LION will ROAR]

Hello My Macedonians brothers..
Thank you for allowing me to join onto this Forum
I have been mainly on the Macedonian Topics Forum http://www.topix.com/forum/world/macedonia
but recently discovered this forum and it has been very informative..
I may need a break from the Macedonia Topic Forum for a while as it was doing my head in..
The Greeks and Bulgarians are so Brainwashed it's unbelievable.. It's Funny how they could dismiss all Facts and evidence and yet be Experts on our Culture and Language?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Welcome Lion, Greek and Bulgar propaganda is chopped down here. I hope you enjoy the stay at the MTO.

[The LION will ROAR]

Thanks Brat..
Hopefuly we could expose more of the Greek and Bulgarian Lies & Propaganda..

[The LION will ROAR]

Article by Pallis on 1928 census.

http://www.jstor.org/stable/pdfplus/1785338.pdf

Lets look at it from a chronological perspective, at the time of independence, Greece was reckoned to be have about 1,000,000 population, 200-250,000 of which were obviously Albanian. That amounts to a quarter of the population, and given the domination of the Greek language through the churches and schools sponsored and controlled by the Patriarchate of Constantinople, the number of Albanians would likely have been much higher, not to mention those 'Greeks' of Albanian descent. What about the number of people that were of Vlach, Slavic and Jewish origin that populated urban centres and regions in the Peloponnese and Attica, what was their amount at the time of independence?

What hapenned to the Venetians and other Latins and westerners?

How many Albanians within the population of the Ionian Islands which were ceded to Greece by Great Britain in 1864, and their numbers?

How many people from Thessaly were of Vlach, Slavic and Albanian origin when the territory was absorbed within Greek borders in the year 1881?

What was the population of Macedonia, Thrace and the rest of the islands when their were awarded to Greece as a gift by the Western Powers after the Balkan Wars in 1912-3?

What was the population and its numbers that arrived in Greece after the Christian-Muslim population exchange carried out by Greece and Turkey in the 1920's?

------------------------------------------------------


In the Greek Census of 1928, which despite its clear bias still reveals important information about the population of Greece, records the total amount of people in the country at 6,204,684, of which 5,759,523 are Greek-speakers, but only 5,716,100 Orthodox Greek-speakers. When 1,300,000 Christian Asian refugees are subtracted from that figure, it leaves 4,416,100 apparent Orthodox Greek-speakers in Greece's ever fluctuating borders between the period of her occupation of Macedonia and Thrace to the early 1920's.

Given that the Greek Census records a mere 8,773 Albanians, most of which are Muslims, one would have to ask what happened to the 250,000 Albanians of almost a century ago?

[The LION will ROAR]

The Christian settlers made Macedonia Greek!

http://makedonika.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/the-christian-settlers-made-macedonia-greek/

[The LION will ROAR]

National Geographic, who were the Christian settlers coming to Aegean Macedonia, 1925!

http://makedonika.wordpress.com/2008/10/20/national-geographic-who-were-the-christian-settlers-coming-to-aegean-macedonia-1925/

[The LION will ROAR]

http://makedonika.wordpress.com/2008/03/29/macedonians-acknowleged-in-a-greek-census-from-1920/

Macedonians acknowledged in a Greek census from 1920!

In the census of 1920, immediately after Greece’s occupation of the “New Territories” the government of the day offers some revealing information. In the census of 19 December, 1920, the official Greek census form had a separate area asking: “what is your mother tongue? What is the language you speak at home? If your mother tongue is not Greek do you understand Greek?” This census document can be found in the book by M. Houliarakis (Geografiki, dioikitiki kai plithismiaki ekseliksi tis Ellados tom G’ page 363)

The data obtained from the census of 1920 offers great detail about the population to the point of distinguishing between deaf males and deaf females. It also includes the data on language and mother tongue.

Unfortunately, the census information relating to the population of the “New Territories” was never made public. This information preceded the exchanges of Christian and Muslim populations between Turkey and Greece or the so-called “voluntary” population exchanges between Greece and Bulgaria.

At that time Greece only published the results from the geographic area of “old Greece” (Sterea, Evoia, Thessalia, Arta, Ionian Islands, Cyclades, Peloponese…). Five volumes containing census data from the “New Territories,” which included information on religion and language, were prohibited from being made public.

In the archives of the Census Council or the General Archives of the Greek state we shall not find census data on the northern territories (the new territories of Macedonia and Western Thrace) for the census period of 1920.

However, page 182 of the volume of census data for 1920 (published in 1929) for the area of Trikala (in Thessaly and Arta just south of the new territories) the following linguistic categories are reported for mother tongue:

Greek, Spanish, Romi, Koutsovlach, Albanian, Bulgarian, Serbian and 37 individuals from Trikala who declared their mother tongue as Macedonian.

This is official census data published by the Greek government wherein, not only is the Macedonian language documented by the census authority but it is rightly distinguished from Bulgarian and Serbian.

See for yourselves.

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