Ancient Balkan Languages - Proto Slavic Words

[makedonin]

Anybody else heard of it?

As you put it in the sentence, I would use it similarly, like:

Ne se opinjaj sea..... meaning don't make theatre about certain thing, don't make tensed situation.

I think it is version of "Napinja" > to make something tight, or tensed.

[Risto the Great]

That is one way to I would use the word.

Other way, is "Choek ne mozhe da ti Uidisa nisho" meaning

No one can't make it right to you

We say:
Kak te udisa = whatever suits you

[makedonin]

We say:
Kak te udisa = whatever suits you

you can put it that way too.

Anybody ever heard "Sardisa" ?

See last post here

[Soldier of Macedon]

I have heard of Sardisa many times, it was prevalent during the Ottoman era hence the reason why some believe it is Turkish. For example, in the film "Ilinden", in reference to the Turkish attack on Krushevo, one person says, "go sardisa gradot" - they surrounded the city.

The fact that your search on this word has not given a conclusive Turkish etymology is interesting to say the least. I am not sure if we have stumbled on a similar set of suffixes on some Macedonian words, but check this out:

Bendisa
Kandisa
Sardisa
Udisa


What do you make of it?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Slovak, what do you think mate?

[Tribunal]

My thoughts exactly. Used in one song in Thrace compared to being understood in nearly all Macedonia seems a no-brainer. It may have been a Thracian word by origin given its similarity to Bendisa, but it is now a unique Macedonian word, being present in a song or two does not exactly qualify it as a Bulgarian word.

First,I would like to apologise if my above statement have offended anyone interested in this subject or shifted the subject.I did not know/have overlooked 'Bendisa'.I will read earlier posts more carefully before posting.

Tribunal, whereabouts in Thrace is the song from? You seem to be familiar with Bulgarian literature then, Bugarin si?

I couldn't specify the region in Thrace.
No,I am not Bulgarian.

Tribunal, would the word 'kutre' be used for anything else in Bulgarian?

As far as I know,when Bulgarians say 'kutre' it usually means 'little finger'.I have no idea how and why this word is used.'Kutre' as 'puppy' is extremely rare from my experience.

[makedonin]

Bendisa
Kandisa
Sardisa
Udisa


What do you make of it?

I can't tell exactly, but it can be archaic form

For example, I would say: "sredi se", as a statement for "I have accomodated my self" or "I have put everything in order".

What I am going at is that this word , the "sred" > in order and "i" as ending and the particle "se" can be put in one word:

sredise...... where the "e" on the end is arhaic "a".

Or take the word: "sherbetisa" composed of "sherbet">sugar like water and ending "i" and particle "sa"

which all put in one word would describe the process of some liquid or some substance becoming like sugar-water.

The particle "se" and archaic "sa" are acctually forms of the modern particle so > wich describes relation of something and means "with" or sometimes "alike" when put in the end. Sometimes the particle "se" also is used for "all" .

I don't have to mention that the character "T" and character "D" interchange very often in our Language, which would make the word sherbetisa also possible as sherbedisa in some dialects.


So those words could be of this composition:

Bend i sa
Kand i sa
Sard i sa
Ud i sa

where "I" is the feminine or Plural ending, and "sa" is the variaton of particle "so" on the end.

what do you think SoM ?

[El Bre]

I have always used kutale for puppy. A variation of kutre, I would imagine.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I can't tell exactly, but it can be archaic form

For example, I would say: "sredi se", as a statement for "I have accomodated my self" or "I have put everything in order".

What I am going at is that this word , the "sred" > in order and "i" as ending and the particle "se" can be put in one word:

sredise...... where the "e" on the end is arhaic "a".

Or take the word: "sherbetisa" composed of "sherbet">sugar like water and ending "i" and particle "sa"

which all put in one word would describe the process of some liquid or some substance becoming like sugar-water.

The particle "se" and archaic "sa" are acctually forms of the modern particle so > wich describes relation of something and means "with" or sometimes "alike" when put in the end. Sometimes the particle "se" also is used for "all" .

I don't have to mention that the character "T" and character "D" interchange very often in our Language, which would make the word sherbetisa also possible as sherbedisa in some dialects.


So those words could be of this composition:

Bend i sa
Kand i sa
Sard i sa
Ud i sa

where "I" is the feminine or Plural ending, and "sa" is the variaton of particle "so" on the end.

what do you think SoM ?

Interesting interpretation Makedonin, but I think that the suffix would be more than just the 'sa' as all of the words have an 'i' infront, making it seem as one complete word rather than a combination of two or more. But then again, I could be wrong. I was actually looking at it as an archaic type suffix - "(d)isa" - that has lingered in an older set of words.

I am going to continue this discussion in the following thread as it will be more relevant there:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=12836#post12836

[Soldier of Macedon]

First,I would like to apologise if my above statement have offended anyone interested in this subject or shifted the subject.I did not know/have overlooked 'Bendisa'.I will read earlier posts more carefully before posting.

You haven't offended anybody Tribunal, so no need for apologies. What do you make of these words, how do you think they appeared in the Macedonian tongue?

I couldn't specify the region in Thrace.

Do you have the words to the song you mentioned, Dan'ova Mama?

No,I am not Bulgarian.

Given that you seem to be aware of this remote and rare song in Thrace, you obviously have some sort of connection to the Balkans. I am Macedonian from both sides, origins in the villages of Bitola. How about you, what is your background?

As far as I know,when Bulgarians say 'kutre' it usually means 'little finger'.I have no idea how and why this word is used.'Kutre' as 'puppy' is extremely rare from my experience.

What is your experience, have you studied or lived there?

[Soldier of Macedon]

In Lithuanian a 'Kunigaikshtis' is a Duke, which looks close to Knez, in Ukranian Knyaz is a Prince, as in some other Slavic languages.

How about the word 'Herceg', I have always assumed it is a Magyar word loaned to the Slavic-speakers of Illyria, but the word for Duke in Lithuanian is 'Hercogas' and in Russian it is 'Gertsog'

.

Are these two words (Knez and Herceg) Magyar loans?

Slovak, some assistance mate?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Here are some ancient placenames that were (some no longer) retained in slightly altered forms, in and around Macedonia:

SKUPI – SKOPIE

DEBORUS – DEBAR

SARDIKA – SREDITSA

ASTIBO – SHTIP

BEROA - BER


If anybody knows of other similar example, share them here.

[Delodephius]

Are these two words (Knez and Herceg) Magyar loans?

Slovak, some assistance mate?

Knez is an old IE word from which also the English king, German könig, generally from Proto-Germanic kuningaz, Latvian ķēniņš, Persian kian, etc.
The word herceg is borrowed from German Herzog meaning "duke". It comes from 'Heer zog' ('army'+'lead').

[Soldier of Macedon]

Something about the Acheron in Epirus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acheron

The lake called Acherousia and the river still called Acheron with the nearby ruins of the Necromanteion are found near Parga on the mainland opposite Corfu.

The Acheron was sometimes referred to as a lake or swamp in Greek literature, as in Aristophanes' The Frogs and Euripides' Alcestis.

In Macedonian the word for lake is 'Ezero', obviously still close to the Slavonic and Illyrian variants. In Greek the word for lake is Limni (λίμνη), likely to be unrelated to the following set of words.

Acheron
Oseriates (Lake, Illyrian)
Ozero (Lake, Slavonic)

A Centem -> Satem example? Slovak (and others), give us your thoughts.

[Sovius]

I’ll take a shot at it.

The ‘ah-k’ and ‘oh-z’ articulations are mechanically similar, as with ‘oh-n’ and ‘oh’. ‘ah’ is a relaxation of ‘oh’ and the ‘k’ sound is what naturally occurs if the pressure required for producing ‘oh’ is reduced to the level of ‘ah’ and the transition to the deflection of the tongue off the top part of the mouth is sped up and the tongue is allowed to glance off the roof of the mouth more forcefully due to the fact that less energy is needed to produce the initial segment of the combination, creating more surface contact to finish off the transition from ‘ah’ to ‘k’. The pronunciation of ‘oak’ will yield an intermediary position for the ‘k’ articulation that demonstrates its similarity to ‘z’ that’s not evident when simply listening to both sounds or looking at both symbolic combinations.

The Esera river that flows from a lake in the Ribagorza (riba gora) region of Aragon, Spain represents a transformation of ‘oh’ into ‘eh’. ‘eh’, of course, is ‘oh’ drawn in a bit, instead of being forced out. Speeding up the production of ozero would produce this transformation. They say the fishing has been quite good there since the early Neolithic Period. The similarity between Aragon and Acheron is either a complete coincidence or something that needs to be researched further.

Are there any more toponyms from the specific region where Acheron is found that either reflect or appear to reflect pre-existing linguistic characteristics that can be independently supported in other regions of Europe? Are there other creole transformations that reflect similar paths of change that can be used to substantiate the relevance of these observations?