Greeks involved in wars

**julie** · 04-03-2010, 11:01 PM

Thank you Bill, very enlightening, Greece is a bully, empowered when someone else assists (eg napalm during Aegean civil war from their western bum buddies), and not so shit hot when on their own.

**fyrOM** · 04-04-2010, 03:54 AM

So they didn�t fight. Do you have to fight if you can make someone else do it for you.

A great tribute to Greek glory

. They lied they cheated and swindled to get from next to nothing to having a relatively high standard of living and an exalted position in western history, forever esteemed as the root of democracy mathematics medicine philosophy and virtually all knowledge and physique and beauty. After all haven�t you heard strong attractive men and woman of any western society as being describe as looking like Greek gods

.

Even now the country is broke but the individual people are wealthy

. Just check their mattresses or Swiss bank accounts. After all the 600 billion had to go somewhere. Money doesn�t just rot into dust. But be careful if you are checking out their mattresses regardless if you are a guy or a girl as you might find more than you expected

. And even now the tricky Greek will enslave the currant generation and maybe the next of European worker slavishly working hard for 8 to 12 hours if not more per day as they struggle to make ends meet as their taxes and the cost of goods rise to payoff the massive funds Europe will need to payoff the Greek debts

.

The Greek bravado seems to have no bounds. You would think a country who spent the last 150 years with a sweet suggerdaddy benefactor looking after their every need of which the last 30 years were spent like one long party as if they had taken the stories about 2012 and the end of the world quite literally would now that they were discovered would be in trouble and face severe financial hardship. No not tricky Greek

. His solution is to retire 700 thousand workers into early retirement out of a population of 11 million. How many of the 11 million are children or students or unemployed or housewives or already too old. Remember the baby boom generation. How much does 700 thousand represent as a portion of the work force. Why not do it when Europe is paying. As one Greek was reported to have said you need to be young enough to enjoy retirement

.

You try to put the Greeks down. Europe might try to put the Greeks down but how can they when they say themselves the very foundation of their sum worth is out of and due to the Greeks

. But its all lies I hear you say. Glory with no honour is no glory at all. Ah but tricky Greek locked in his honour with Europe as well

. But its all lies. The short answer to that is so and the long answer is so what

. Didn�t your father ever tell you about marifet and snajdise brave strong and industrious Macedonians and Europeans

.

**Risto the Great** · 04-04-2010, 04:22 AM

The only battle I keep hearing about that was meant to be a purely Greek fought one was against the Italians. And I know for a fact that many of my people were involved with that. They were not Greeks.

**julie** · 04-04-2010, 04:28 AM

OziMak, you have a way with words, you had me in stitches reading that, gospod zravye da ti dade

**Bill77** · 04-04-2010, 05:03 AM

Thank god i am not an epileptic Ozimak, all those movements in your post would have triggered a seizure. lol

But let me add something to this thread.

It occurs on a regular basis, where Sections of the Greek Defence forces chant sickening rasist anti Macedonian, Turkish or Albanian chants.

Eg: March 2010 http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...65&postcount=1

June 2007 YouTube - IDIOTS greek soldiers insulting Turks

October 28 (year not certain) http://www.mia.com.mk/default.aspx?vId=58221842&lId=2

March 2007 http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-16125505.html

This is just a few, There are many more. Greeks like to act all macho when they are in there own zone. They walk around with there chest pumped out and like to think they are the bravest of the brave. There cockiness leads them to believe they are, and always have been militarily mighty........ Glorious they are not.
Untrustworthy, inhumane, Non self reliant are a few words that comes to mind to Describe the Greeks in Battle. History clearly shows this.

Gradually, I will be posting quotes, links and photos that many might have seen already hidden amongst the many threads here at MTO.
We can go all the way back to the Ancient times. Where Ancient Hellenes states needed to unite to fight the Mighty Macedonians. But it would be inaccurate to associate this Western Created Greek race with the Ancient Hellenes.

Please stay tuned.

**Bill77** · 04-04-2010, 07:20 AM

Helping Greece for Independence and Greek atrocities.

Let me start with a brief history of when the Ottomon first conquered the peloponnese which is where the revolt for independence began.

The peninsula of the Peloponnese (in Southern Greece), which is also known as the Morea, was first partly conquered in 1397 CE by the Ottoman Sultan Beyazit I from the Byzantines, and was completely overrun in 1460 by Sultan Mehmet II, who was received as a deliverer by the Greek Orthodox Christian population, then suffering under the rule of the Roman Catholics1. In 1698 the Ottomans were compelled to cede the Peloponnese to the Venetians, under the Treaty of Carlowitz, but in 1718 it was retroceded to the Ottoman Empire under the Treaty of Passarowitz2 According to the late Professor Dr. Douglas Dakin, who was an expert on the history of modern Greece:

"This renewed Turkish rule the inhabitants found preferable to that of the Venetians; taxes were lighter; the administration was less efficient and therefore less harsh; and the (Ottoman) infidel was much more tolerant than the Roman Catholic" 3rd The Ottomans established a province (pasalik) in the Peloponnese.

Russo-Greek intrigues

Despite the comfortable and easy life which the Greeks, especially those living in urban areas, led, they began to intrigue with the Russians during the reign of Tsar Peter the Mad, These intrigues, which aimed at the resurrection of the Byzantine Empire, continued under Empress Catherine II during whose reign Russian agents roamed the countryside in the Peloponnese, inciting the people to rebellion 4th

Now lets suck up to the French.

Franco-Greek intrigues

The French revolution, which erupted in 1789, had much effect on some of the Greek Orthodox Christian leaders, who, being aware that their intrigues with the Tsar and other Russian notables were not successful, transferred their hopes and loyalty to France, following the appearance of Napoleon Bonaparte on the scene. French secret agents began to roam all over the Balkans, continuously inciting the Greeks, and deluding them with promises of autonomy or independence under French protection5. So widespread was Napoleon's fame among the Greeks that, even the women of Mani, a remote fastness in the southern Peloponnese, placed his portrait in their homely shrines6.

However, following the defeat of Napoleon at Waterloo, in June 1815, by the British military. forces under the command of the Duke of Wellington, the Greeks retransferred their hopes to Tsarist Russia, hoping that Tsar Alexander I's foreign minister john (Ioannis) Capodistrias, who was of Greek origin, would assist them.

To Be Continued

**Daniel the Great** · 04-04-2010, 07:26 AM

This might be off topic.
The Greeks may have a large man power but the Macedonian army is the first in the region to consist fully of professional soldiers, i think that counts for a lot to have a professional army rather then a army that just lets anyone go out and fight.

______________________
Macedonian and proud

**Onur** · 04-04-2010, 07:46 AM

I can guess that most of you only know Greek claims for Cyprus so I want to remind few facts 1st;

As you know, all islands on Aegean and Mediterranean sea was belong to Turks since 15th century to WW1. At WW1, Italians occupied all islands with the exception of Cyprus which occupied by England. After WW1, Italians left all islands to the Greece and England accepted to leave Cyprus(exception of the remaining 2-3 British military base) while letting people form a parliament where Greeks and Turks had equal members and rights.

That was the case till 1950s, then Greeks founded the movement named "EOKA" to throw all the Turks out from Cyprus and they protested the parliament which consist %50 Greek, %50 Turkish members. They said Cyprus is a Greek only island by totally ignoring the Turkish people who lived there for 500 years.

After the rise of "EOKA" movement among Greeks and following a coup d'�tat engineered by the Greek Junta. the mass murder and killings of Turks began. In 7 years between 1967 to 1974, most of the Turks started to migrate into Turkey or to England.

Then Turkey started military campaign into Cyprus to end the turmoil at 1974 while ignoring the opposition of whole Europe and USA because if Turkey wouldn't realize an army operation, I am %100 sure that there wouldn't exist a single Turkish person in Cyprus right now. All would be fled to Turkey or be killed by the Greek Junta soldiers or their EOKA followers.

About 1974 military operation;
Turkish people was already sure that we were going to wipe out Greek Junta generals and their soldiers but we didn't expect that they were going to flee when they heard that Turkish army is coming to the island

In less than 24 hours, Turkey took control the %40 of Cyprus because of almost no resistance by the Greeks

... Then England said if Turkey occupies whole Cyprus, they will start a war campaign vs Turkey and we stopped the Cyprus operation after few days and we created an independent Turkish government at northern Cyprus.

**Bill77** · 04-04-2010, 08:05 AM

mail2onur, What i am about to post, might be of interest to you. Please fill free to share your opinion.

I understand that war and violence is evil and every nation is guilty and taken part one time or another some where in History. The Balkans are notourious for some of the worst fighting ever, and many know about the most recent atrocities in Former Yugoslavia where inocent women and children were not spared on all sides. But Greece are not imune to wars, and atrocities. They have a long History of atrocities and violent barbaric acts where children, women, elderly, were not spared. They long ago before the Nazis and way before the serbs, or croats comitted ethnic or religious clensing and to a certain extent, still to this day, commit genicide by supressing freedom of speach and denying ethnic rights and culture, right under our nose.

**Onur** · 04-04-2010, 08:57 AM

Originally posted by Bill77 View Post

It occurs on a regular basis, where Sections of the Greek Defence forces chant sickening rasist anti Macedonian, Turkish or Albanian chants.

Eg: March 2010 http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...65&postcount=1

June 2007 YouTube - IDIOTS greek soldiers insulting Turks

October 28 (year not certain) http://www.mia.com.mk/default.aspx?vId=58221842&lId=2

March 2007 http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-16125505.html

This is just a few, There are many more. Greeks like to act all macho when they are in there own zone. They walk around with there chest pumped out and like to think they are the bravest of the brave. There cockiness leads them to believe they are, and always have been militarily mighty........ Glorious they are not.
Untrustworthy, inhumane, Non self reliant are a few words that comes to mind to Describe the Greeks in Battle. History clearly shows this.

Gradually, I will be posting quotes, links and photos that many might have seen already hidden amongst the many threads here at MTO.
We can go all the way back to the Ancient times. Where Ancient Hellenes states needed to unite to fight the Mighty Macedonians. But it would be inaccurate to associate this Western Created Greek race with the Ancient Hellenes.

Please stay tuned.

They are really stupid. They knew that they cant do shit vs Turkey but they still do these racist stuff vs not only Turkey, vs Albania and Macedonia too. They are just trying to feed their stupid ego, thats all.

But I understand the reason of this "Turkish paranoia" which created by Greek governments and Church. Its still the best way for Greek politicians to milk Greek people and take their support. They always try to keep "Turkish paranoia" alive so they can get their votes and create a reason of why they spend about 15 billion Euro for military expenses.

In reality, big guns of EU, aka imperialists, encourage both Turkey and Greece to buy weapons from them because its wealthy business. Turkey buys 20 billion worth of military equipments from USA and Greece buys 15 billion worth of military equipments from France every year. So, imperialists encourage the tension between Greece and Turkey.

Actually, Greece has no real industry or agriculture, so EU funds them by giving close to 120 billion to the Greece over the last 15 years but they take this money back by selling them weapons.

Also Turkey doesn't spend this money for vs Greece. We spend it for the incoming potential danger from Iraq and Iran border. Turkish people doesn't see Greece as a threat and most military analysts proposes pulling out and close all small military bases at Greece and Bulgaria border.

**Bill77** · 04-04-2010, 09:13 AM

Greek Barbarianism

According to British writer, Wihiam St. Clair: �the savage passion for revenge soon degenerated into a frenzied delight in killing and horror for their own sakes�. Another British writer, David Howarth, observes that, the Greeks did not need any reason for these murders, �once they had started� they killed because a mad blood-lust had come upon them all, and everyone was killing�

�The Turks of Greece left few traces. They disappeared suddenly and finally in the spring of 1821, umourned and unnoticed by the rest of the world� Upwards of 20,000 Turkish men, women and children were murdered by their Greek neighbours in a few weeks of slaughter. They were killed deliberately, without qualm and scruple� Turkish families living in single farms or small isolated communities were summarily put to death, and their homes burned down over their corpses. The men were killed at once, and the women and children divided out as slaves, usually to be killed in their turn later.

According to Steven Runciman, who wrote "the history of the Greek Orthodox Church" "Peloponnesian bishops who raised the Standard of revolt in 1821 �17. This was not a war for Greek independence or liberation, but a war of extermination against the Turks and other Muslims, and the main provokers of it were the Greek Orthodox Christian clerics".

Turks burnt alive

According to British writers such as St. Clair, Howarth and Wihiam Miller, the Greek rebels captured the 57 crew of a Turkish vessel; took them to the island of Hydra amidst shrieks of triumph and there, on the coast, they roasted them alive on a fire

The massacres of Monemvasia and Navarino

The Muslims of the small town of Monemvasia, which was besieged by the Greek rebels, decided, in August 1821, to surrender to the rebels, as they could no longer endure the prevalent hunger and disease; but nevertheless they were slaughtered barbarously. These events were hailed in Western Europe as �victory of liberalism and Christianity�21. A few days later the same fate befell the Muslims of Navarino: between 2,000 and 3,000 of them were cruelly massacred. Turkish women were stripped and searched for valuables. Naked women plunged into the sea, and were shot in water; children were thrown in to drown, and babies were taken from their mothers and beaten against the rocks.

Greeks of Navarino were relating with pride the terrible massacres that had taken place there. One of them was boasting that he had killed eighteen Turks; another one was relating how he had stabbed to death nine women and children in their beds. These merciless killers were, with pride, showing to the European volunteers, who had come to help the �Hellenic cause�, the corpses of the Muslim women whom they had raped, carved up and then thrown over the fortifications some time earlier 23. But these terrible scenes did not impress the volunteers; on the contrary, they shocked and disgusted them. A German volunteer named Lieber describes how they felt hatred and disgust towards the Greek rebels who were calling upon them to rape these women when they themselves had already sexually assaulted them

The Tripolitsa massacre

on 5 October 1821, lasting for two days, during which 10,000 people were killed. Most of the corpses were decapitated and carved Up25. The Greek rebels tortured the Muslims whom they believed hoarded their money. According to St. Clair, Howarth and the British Colonial Office and Foreign Office documents, �they were slow1y burnt to death on a fire, after their arms and legs where chopped off�. One can imagine what the rebels had done to pregnant Muslim women.

About 2,000 captives, consisting mostly of women, were stripped naked;
driven to a plain outside the town and then killed. After this event, many starving Muslim children were running from place to place, and were targeted, slaughtered or shot dead by the Greek rebels, who were elated and with their mouths foaming26. The chief Greek brigand, Theodoros Kolokotronis, who occupies pride of place in the �Greek pantheon of heroes�, also took part in these massacres and pillages with relish27.

European officers, including Colonel Thomas Gordon, who happened to be at Tripolitsa during the massacre, witnessed the hair-raising incidents there, and some of them later reached these with all their ugliness. Colonel Gordon became so disgusted with these Greek barbarities that he resigned from the service of the Greeks. The young German philhellene doctor Wilhelm Boldemann, who could not bear to witness these scenes, committed suicide by taking poison. Some of the Other European philhellenes, too, who were extremely disillusioned, followed suit.

The Acrocorinth massacre

Towards the end of January 1822, more than 1,500 Muslims at Acrocorinth surrendered to the rebels, but were atrociously killed by the ruffians of Kolokotronis and other Greek leaders. These bloody incidents were later related by a German officer as follows:29

� (The Greek rebels) spared the lives of beautiful Muslim women, and sold them as slaves. The proceeds from these sales went to augment the pockets of rebel leaders such as Mavrokordatos.

An Italian volunteer named Brengeri, on a road before he came to Corinth, found the dead body of a Turk, and further on, he found his wife and a baby, still alive but very hungry. He and his friends gave her a few coins, in the hope that she would be able to feed herself and the baby a little longer. Before they had gone a few yards they heard two shots: some Greeks had killed her and the baby, and taken the coins31. Brengeri later saw some Greeks killing a Turkish family, a man, his wife and two children. Before they killed the mother they tore off her veil to see what she looked like, and at that moment Brengeri rushed up and begged them to spare her. They asked for 50 piastres, which he gave them and saved her

At Acrocorinth, following the Turkish capitulation, a Turkish couple, too starved and exhausted to carry their child any further, tried to hand it to a Greek. He immediately drew a long knife and cut off his head, explaining, as a German officer was thing to prevent him, that it was best to prevent the Turks from growing up

The massacres of Athens an Acropolis

Meanwhile, many Muslims, who had been besieged in the Acropolis area of Athens for a long time, and Who suffered thirst, surrendered on 21 Jhne 1822, following the Word of honour given to them by the bishops, the priests and the rebel leaders, that they would not be killed; but, with the exception of a few of them, saved with great difficulty by foreign consuls, they were allmassacred without any pity�, At the same time the 400 defenceless Muslims of the town of Athens were carved up into pieces in the streets�

when the Greek rebels were attacking Modon, they caught a Turk outside the city wahs, They decapitated him; put his head on a pike; took it to Navarino where they kicked it about as if it was a football34 According to the statements of British sailors, the rebels used to turture the Turks they captured on the high seas, According to Anemat the Dutchman, the rebels used to bring round the Turkish sailors whom they captured unconscious, and then kill them with all kinds of torture, ultimately tearing them into pieces, The Dutch used to describe the Greeks as �cowards and barbarians� 35.

The Dervenaki massacre

one of the European volunteers, who happened to be at Navplia during the incidents, a Greek Orthodox priest who was suspected of establishing relations with the Turks, had his fingers scalded by the Greeks with hot water and his nails burnt. He was then buried in the ground up to his neck, and his face was brushed with Syrup so that he might be attacked by the flies. It took him six days to die in agony. A Jew who was trying to escape from the town was captured, completely undressed, his organs severed, and having been led around the town in that condition, he was hanged37.

when the town of Navplia surrendered to the rebels on 12 December, a terrible massacre took place. The rebels piled up the heads of the murdered in the form of a pyramid. At that very moment the arrival into port of the British warship Cambrian, under the command of Commodore Hamilton, was instrumental in saying some of the Muslim and Jewish residents of the town from certain death

The murder of European Grecophile volunteers

The Greek rebels went so far in their barbarities that they even began to murder their foreign supporters who had come from abroad, mainly from Europe, in order to help them. After the capture of the Navplia town by the rebels, it was observed that some Greeks led their foreign supporters into a sauna-bath, in the town, and disposed of them. The Greek Owher of the sauna-bath persuaded the foreigners to take off their clothes so that when he murdered them, their clothes and boots would not be blood-stained, and he would then be able to sell them. Of Course, the naive volunteers did not suspect what would befall them. 39

The genocide orgy in the Peloponnese ended only when there were no more Turks to be killed 40. The philhellene volunteers who went to help the Greeks and began to return to their homeland in 1822 and 1823 could not save themselves from the nightmare of those terrible days. They were expecting many good things from the Hellenes ( or Greeks) , but instead they were flabbergasted. They began to hate the Greeks and to curse themselves for having been taken in by them. Despite pressure from the Greek societies in Europe, they began to put pen on paper about their own experiences. In all that was written the same sentiments were expressed: �I am writing this so that others will not make the same mistakes that I have made. Modern Greece is not like old Greece. The Greeks are a wicked and barbaric race who know no gratitude�41.

How Lord Byron was exploited

The Greek rebels also tried to exploit and abuse the well-known British poet Lord Byron in their sordid activities. In fact, all that they wanted was to lay their hands on Lord Byron�s wealth 42. The British poet died on 19 April 1824, not �as a leader bringing triumph to the co-called Greek independence fighters�, but expired on his death-bed from an incurable disease. However, the Greeks have turned him into a legend as the so-called �fighter of he Greek independence revolution� 43.

The following leaflet distributed in August 1821 in Hamburg is very instructive

�Invitation to the youth of Germany. The struggle for religion, life and independence is calling us to arms; humanity. and duty are cahing us to the aid of the noble Greeks, who are our brothers. we must sacrifice our blood and our life for the sacred cause. The end of Muslim rule in Europe is approaching. The most beautiful land of Europe must be saved from the monsters! Let us join the struggle with allour strength God is with US, because this is a sacred cause � it is a cause of humanity � it is a struggle for religion, life and independence��46.

The anti-dote of this hehenophile and Greek propaganda were the Western volunteers who, having witnessed the bloody events in the Peloponnese, began to return to their own countries. Many French officers who returned from Greece to Marseilles in April 1822 were describing the Greeks as: �Vile, cowardly and ungrateful�. A Prussian officer who had witnessed the Corinth massacres appealed to the volunteers, who were getting ready to go to Greece, as follows:

�There (in Greece) you will find only misery, death and ingratitude. Don�t believe what they tell you ih Germany and Switzerland; believe what an old soldier is saying�47.

Another Prussian officer wrote the following

�The ancient Greeks no longer exist. The place of Solon, Socrates and Demosthehes has been taken blind ignorance. The logical laws of Athens have been replaced by barbarism. The Greeks do not fulfih the attractive promises they make to the foreigners through the press�48.

The same officer described the ihicitness that took place after the capture of Tripolitsa by the rebels, as follows:

�A young Turkish girl, as beautiful as Helen, the queen of Troy, was shot and killed by the male cousin of Kolokotrohis; a Turkish boy, with a noose round his neck, was paraded in the streets; was thrown into a ditch; was stoned, stabbed and then, while he was still alive, was tied to a wooden plank and burnt Oil fire; three Turkish children were slowly roasted on fire in front of the very eyes of their parents. While all these nasty incidents were taking place, the leader of the rebellion Ypsilanti (? Alexandros Mavrokordatos) remained as a spectator and tried to justify. the actions of the rebels as, �we are at war; anything can happen �49

Conclusion

During the Greek rebellion the British, French and Russian governments were clandestinely. helping the rebels. These governments did not raise any objection to the dispatch of money, weapons and fighters to the rebels, and also they did their utmost to help them thlrough their own secret agents. On the other hand, the �Reverend� John HartIe, who was in Greece in 1826, in his book published in London in 1831, and entitled Researches in Greece and the Levant, claimed that the Turks had suffered terrible things at the hands of the Greeks, and bloody incidents were recorded in the Ottoman Empire, because the Turks had refused to become Christians-

When, in 1825, the fortunes changed, and the army of Ibrahim Pasha, the sonl of Mehmet Ali Pasha, governor of Egypt, began to reconquer the PelopoIlncse, allthose Greek rebels who surrendered were spared. In April 1826, when Tripolitsa, Argos, Kalamata, and Missolonghi were recaptured by the Turks, allEurope began to raise an outcry against them.

On 4 April 1826 a protocol was signed at St. Petersburg between England and Russia in order to mediate between the Turks and the Greeks, which France also joined later. Fohowing the intervantion of Grecophile states England, France and Ruissia, in accordance with the London Agreement of 6 July 1827, and the complete rout of the Ottoman navy at Navarilno 0n 20 October l827 by the navies of the same powers, a protocol was signed on 22 March 1829 specifying the frontiers of an independent Greece.

A year later the Greek state was established, This state offered the Crown in 1832 to the son of the king of Bavaria, Prince Otho. The resulting Greek kingdom, taking its inspiration from the Megali Idea, the driving force of Greek imperialism, began to foliow a policy of aggrandisement, first against the Ottoman Empire and later against the government of the Grand National Assembly of Turkey, but received an unforgettable lesson from the Turks, in Western Anatolia, on 9 September 1922:�.

**Onur** · 04-04-2010, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by Bill77 View Post

mail2onur, What i am about to post, might be of interest to you. Please fill free to share your opinion.

I understand that war and violence is evil and every nation is guilty and taken part one time or another some where in History. The Balkans are notourious for some of the worst fighting ever, and many know about the most recent atrocities in Former Yugoslavia where inocent women and children were not spared on all sides. But Greece are not imune to wars, and atrocities. They have a long History of atrocities and violent barbaric acts where children, women, elderly, were not spared. They long ago before the Nazis and way before the serbs, or croats comitted ethnic or religious clensing and to a certain extent, still to this day, commit genicide by supressing freedom of speach and denying ethnic rights and culture, right under our nose.

Of course mate, I know lots about Greek policy over the people of Balkans(Macedonians, Turks, Albanians, Sephardi Jews etc.), in the name of creating a nation called "Hellas" with fake claims of being descendants of ancient-Greeks.

I even heard the real eyewitness stories from my grandparents.

And i am sure the governments support these racist movements in Greece to be able to protect this so called Greek identity which is unreal. They simply don't want the people discover their mix of Albanian, Macedonian, Turkish or Slavic identity and return to their former roots.

**Bill77** · 04-04-2010, 09:34 AM

MACEDONIA UNDER GREEK OCUPATION- AEGEAN PART OF MACEDONIA

1912 began a great ETHNIC CLEANSING and genocide of Macedonians...the cruelty displayed by the Greek soldiers in their dealings towards the Macedonian people was merciless. 135 000 of the Macedonians expelled. 200 vilages from Aegean part of macedonia where COMPLETELY destroed ....

WARNING! SOME OF THE IMAGES ARE EXTREMLY GRAPHIC YOU MIGHT FIND DISTURBING.

**Onur** · 04-04-2010, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by Bill77 View Post

[B]
Conclusion

During the Greek rebellion the British, French and Russian governments were clandestinely. helping the rebels. These governments did not raise any objection to the dispatch of money, weapons and fighters to the rebels, and also they did their utmost to help them thlrough their own secret agents. On the other hand, the “Reverend” John HartIe, who was in Greece in 1826, in his book published in London in 1831, and entitled Researches in Greece and the Levant, claimed that the Turks had suffered terrible things at the hands of the Greeks, and bloody incidents were recorded in the Ottoman Empire, because the Turks had refused to become Christians-

When, in 1825, the fortunes changed, and the army of Ibrahim Pasha, the sonl of Mehmet Ali Pasha, governor of Egypt, began to reconquer the PelopoIlncse, allthose Greek rebels who surrendered were spared. In April 1826, when Tripolitsa, Argos, Kalamata, and Missolonghi were recaptured by the Turks, allEurope began to raise an outcry against them.

On 4 April 1826 a protocol was signed at St. Petersburg between England and Russia in order to mediate between the Turks and the Greeks, which France also joined later. Fohowing the intervantion of Grecophile states England, France and Ruissia, in accordance with the London Agreement of 6 July 1827, and the complete rout of the Ottoman navy at Navarilno 0n 20 October l827 by the navies of the same powers, a protocol was signed on 22 March 1829 specifying the frontiers of an independent Greece.

These historical facts just proves that the Greece was/is the creation of the imperialists which used to weaken the Turkish empire and prepare the realization of WW-1.

All this pain and suffering, For what?

To make imperialists to capture all newly discovered oil sources from ottoman empire who reigns on whole middle-east right before WW-I

Ottoman Empire was already going to fall because the age of empires was already over. All these nations could be founded without suffering of people if there wouldn't be WW-I. All those people could choose where to live by their own will not with the decision of imperialists.

Cite from the book of Justin McCarthy(American historian) "Death and Exile: The Ethnic Cleansing of Ottoman Muslims, 1821-1922"

The Balkan Muslims were largely gone, dead or forced to migrate, the remainder living in pockets of settlement in Greece, Bulgaria, and Yugoslavia. The same fate had
overcome the Muslims of the Crimea, the northern Caucasus, and
Russian Armenia -- they were simply gone. Millions of Muslims,
most of them Turks, had died; millions more had fled to what is
today Turkey. Between 1821 and 1922, more than five million Mus-
lims were driven from their lands. Five and one-half million Muslims
died, some of them killed in wars, others perishing as refugees from
starvation and disease.

Much of the history of the Balkans, Anatolia, and the Caucasus
cannot properly be understood without consideration of the Muslim
refugees and the Muslim dead. This is particularly true of the
history of nationalism and imperialism. The contemporary map of
the Balkans and the southern Caucasus displays countries with
fairly homogenous populations, countries that were created in the
wars and revolutions that separated them from the Ottoman Em-
pire. Their ethnic and religious unity was accomplished through
the expulsion of their Muslim population. In other words, the new
states were founded on the suffering of their departed inhabitants.

http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=94404771

Amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/Death-Exile-Cleansing-Ottoman-1821-1922/dp/0878500944

%35 of Today`s Turkey population are the descendants of these departed Balkan people. I am one of them aswell. Also the founder of Modern Turkey, Kemal Ataturk is Thessaloniki born with ancestors from the city of "Debar" in Macedonia.

Originally posted by Bill77 View Post

A year later the Greek state was established, This state offered the Crown in 1832 to the son of the king of Bavaria, Prince Otho. The resulting Greek kingdom, taking its inspiration from the Megali Idea, the driving force of Greek imperialism, began to foliow a policy of aggrandisement, first against the Ottoman Empire and later against the government of the Grand National Assembly of Turkey, but received an unforgettable lesson from the Turks, in Western Anatolia, on 9 September 1922:”.

Following the events of WW-1, England demanded Greece to enter war with Turkey and occupy Aegean side of Anatolia after they disbanded the whole Turkish army but Bavarian king of Greece refused to do that by saying that Greece wont enter an adventure in Anatolia. Then England over-throne the Greek king and assigned "Venizelos" as a prime minister of Greece. Just after 1 week of over-throne, Venizelos annonced that they will go to Izmir(Smyrna) and occupy it on behalf of England to realise "Megalo-Idea" of the Hellens.

Then they did the same atrocities at Aegean side of Turkey. Worst part of all, The people of Aegean Anatolia at 1919 was the very same people or their kids who suffered and migrated there from Greece around 1830s.

There are some Greek journalists and authors in Greece who admit the massacre in Smyrna;

A new book was written by a Greek journalist and researcher to shed light on the concealed facts of brutalities and massacres committed by Greek army.

Tasos Kostopulos' last book, '1912- 1922 War and Ethnic Cleansing', reveals the facts hidden from Greek people about what really happened in the dark pages of their history.

The book emphasizes on brutalities, massacres and violence committed by irregular Greek army in Balkans and Anatolia against Turkish population. The facts on how Greek soldiers mass murdered thousands of civilian people and usurped their homes, fields, and belongings are documented in the book. The people lucky to be able to run away from the murderous Greek army had to leave their homes and belongings and move to Anatolia in order to save their lives. The book describes Venizelos as an opportunist politician who tried to expand the territories of Greece in Anatolia based on excuses and his destructive ambitions.

The book includes a lot of memories of people. The following is from the memoirs of a Greek officer, named A. Dimitriou:

"25 December 1920. We entered Kopruhisar with our forces around noon. I saw armed Greek soldiers entering homes and shops of people breaking the doors. There were screams of Turkish civilians, cries of women all around the village. Sometimes I was hearing shootings. While walking on the streets, I saw a an open door. I entered inside. Next to the stairs, there was the dead body of an old Turkish civilian. I heart rows and screams coming from further inside. I moved in. There were around 10 Greek soldiers their clother in dirt and mud, lying on the floor, bursting in laughter and joy. They were raping a Turkish girl, who has half naked, her clothes being ripped. The girl was crying in pain. She was begging the soldiers to stop.

The soldiers saw me. They asked me to join them. I cried: "What a shame, leave the girl". The girl looked at me, stand up with her last energy, hugged me and said in Turkish: "Please, please help me". I swore at soldiers and said: "What a disgrace you are, we are in a war". One of the soldiers took his bayonet, walked over me and said: "Fcuk off, fcuk you and your virgin Mary".

Greeks involved in wars

Greeks involved in wars

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