COVID-19 Pandemic

[Vangelovski]

Did he mention the penis shaped magnet stuck in his arse...?

Gocka..I tend to agree with you, the Americans seem to come to the party a little late in most cases but...

The Soviets were the first to put a man into space but the Americans put a man on the moon and ended the space race before the moon-dust had settled around Armstrong's boots...

The Yanks entered WWII after dragging their arse around for a while only to end it by vaporising Japs by the tens of thousands ...

When shit needs to be done, nobody can throw the kitchen sink at the problem like the US can...when I hear people (mostly women) trying to tear down the Donald and gloat about how the US (under his leadership) will face an existential (corona virus) crisis...I just remind them of the US's unique ability to get shit done when the proverbial hits the fan...

I'm not sure if I'm reading this correctly. Did Phoenix just say that the evil Americans are capable of doing something right?

[Vangelovski]

Its quite frustrating actually to witness and be a part of. Sometimes you wish you could just slam the fist down and rule by decree, it has its uses in these kind of moments. In the long run you realize if you want democracy in good times, then you need to tolerate its inefficiency in times of crisis.

Its not inefficiency, its working through the best possible solution. China is the epitome of inefficiency. If they allowed free speech and dissent they would have been on top of this when those first doctors discovered it.

[Vangelovski]

I do think Australia might be the first to develop a vaccine, if Macedonia hasn't already.

We did win the swine flu vaccine race:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/19/us/politics/coronavirus-vaccine-competition.html

Unfortunately, the Americans had to wait until we had produced enough for us.

[Phoenix]

I'm not sure if I'm reading this correctly. Did Phoenix just say that the evil Americans are capable of doing something right?

I have a fever...

[Gocka]

I'm not sure if I'm reading this correctly. Did Phoenix just say that the evil Americans are capable of doing something right?

HAHA You had to say something., I checked the user name twice before replying. These are difficult times, he might be under a lot of stress.

Its not inefficiency, its working through the best possible solution. China is the epitome of inefficiency. If they allowed free speech and dissent they would have been on top of this when those first doctors discovered it.

I have to disagree with you on that one. Yes China dragged its feet in admitting and taking steps to mitigate the spread at first, but once it got its shit together they contained the virus in an impressive fashion. Everyone knows their official numbers are bullshit, but the USA estimates between 100,000 to 240,000 deaths, and many would argue that is a bit optimistic. Even if we take nearly half that range and convert it to deaths per million we are at 500 deaths per million. That is at least 3 times Italy's death toll which is horrendous. In order for China to have had anything near that those numbers, around 700,000 people would have had to die to have the same deaths per million as the USA is estimating ti will have. Even if you don't believe China's numbers by a factor of 100, they did a much better job. There is no way they were able to hide 100's of thousands of deaths. The virus has already spread to every corner of the USA, China contained it to a couple regions.

If the USA was efficient it would have started preparing 2 months ago, not less than 2 weeks ago when the virus had already started spreading. Even now the response lags for behind whats needed. States are bidding against each other for medical equipment, bidding up the price, sometimes along with the federal government. Lock downs are mostly voluntary and inconsistent. China went full draconian really fast and honestly pulled off some feat considering the size of its population and the density of its cities.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2020/04/01/coronavirus-covid-19-china-radical-measures-lockdowns-mass-quarantines/2938374001/

The USA may end up having the highest deaths per capita in the industrialized world. On top of that because of poor planning and slow reaction, their economy will end up paralyzed for much longer than what could have been possible. Considering the vast resources the USA has and the power of its federal government, I consider the reaction to all of this a bit pathetic. Sure they can do some things with flare like bring in giant hospital ships but the vast majority of their actions were too little too late. They had months to foresee that this would spread here.

I hope to god everyone is wrong and that the death toll will be multiples lower than projected, and maybe time will tell, but I can't possibly say that they have been efficient with anything to date.

I have a fever...

LMAO good one.

[Vangelovski]

HAHA You had to say something., I checked the user name twice before replying. These are difficult times, he might be under a lot of stress.



I have to disagree with you on that one. Yes China dragged its feet in admitting and taking steps to mitigate the spread at first, but once it got its shit together they contained the virus in an impressive fashion. Everyone knows their official numbers are bullshit, but the USA estimates between 100,000 to 240,000 deaths, and many would argue that is a bit optimistic. Even if we take nearly half that range and convert it to deaths per million we are at 500 deaths per million. That is at least 3 times Italy's death toll which is horrendous. In order for China to have had anything near that those numbers, around 700,000 people would have had to die to have the same deaths per million as the USA is estimating ti will have. Even if you don't believe China's numbers by a factor of 100, they did a much better job. There is no way they were able to hide 100's of thousands of deaths. The virus has already spread to every corner of the USA, China contained it to a couple regions.

If the USA was efficient it would have started preparing 2 months ago, not less than 2 weeks ago when the virus had already started spreading. Even now the response lags for behind whats needed. States are bidding against each other for medical equipment, bidding up the price, sometimes along with the federal government. Lock downs are mostly voluntary and inconsistent. China went full draconian really fast and honestly pulled off some feat considering the size of its population and the density of its cities.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2020/04/01/coronavirus-covid-19-china-radical-measures-lockdowns-mass-quarantines/2938374001/

The USA may end up having the highest deaths per capita in the industrialized world. On top of that because of poor planning and slow reaction, their economy will end up paralyzed for much longer than what could have been possible. Considering the vast resources the USA has and the power of its federal government, I consider the reaction to all of this a bit pathetic. Sure they can do some things with flare like bring in giant hospital ships but the vast majority of their actions were too little too late. They had months to foresee that this would spread here.

I hope to god everyone is wrong and that the death toll will be multiples lower than projected, and maybe time will tell, but I can't possibly say that they have been efficient with anything to date.




LMAO good one.

I think your focusing in on one tiny facet of a very temporary crisis (though I still disagree with you even on that). If you compare a democracy with totalitarianism across the whole spectrum, we've killed far less people, created far more prosperity and enjoyed a superior quality of life. You're far better of in the US than under a totalitarian system, with or without coronavirus.

[Gocka]

I think your focusing in on one tiny facet of a very temporary crisis. If you compare a democracy with totalitarianism across the whole spectrum, we've killed far less people, created far more prosperity and enjoyed a superior quality of life. You're far better of in the US than under a totalitarian system, with or without coronavirus.

LOL no disagreement there. I thought we were talking about the Covid outbreak specifically. I originally commented on the inefficiency in terms of the response to this crisis, then I said you need to tolerate the inefficiency in times of crisis like this because in better times you will want your democracy. I wouldn't give up my American way of life for the Chinese or Russian model in a million years.

[Vangelovski]

I have a fever...

You know what's good for that? Zelka. Wrap it around your head. Ke ja izvleci silata.

[Vangelovski]

LOL no disagreement there. I thought we were talking about the Covid outbreak specifically. I originally commented on the inefficiency in terms of the response to this crisis, then I said you need to tolerate the inefficiency in times of crisis like this because in better times you will want your democracy. I wouldn't give up my American way of life for the Chinese or Russian model in a million years.

Even with coronavirus, I think the American response will come out far superior (not perfect, none are perfect). We still don't know what's really happening in China. All this will take some years to come out.

[Risto the Great]

We still don't know what's really happening in China. All this will take some years to come out.

They quote 3000 deaths but can't keep up with the urn requirements for the cremations closer to 100,000.

[Vangelovski]

I collated the data below (I know a lot of Americans like to compare the US with the "democratic socialist" utopia's in Scandanavia). Data is from www.worldometers.info/coronavirus and based on the John Hopkins Hospital tracker and the WHO.

[Vangelovski]

They quote 3000 deaths but can't keep up with the urn requirements for the cremations closer to 100,000.

Looking at the number from the WHO, around 3-5 million people die of flu every year (not to mention all of the other viruses going around). If these numbers don't overwhelm health systems, why are less than 100,000 coronavirus hospitalisations worldwide doing it? The maths just doesn't add up on this.

[Gocka]

Looking at the number from the WHO, around 3-5 million people die of flu every year (not to mention all of the other viruses going around). If these numbers don't overwhelm health systems, why are less than 100,000 coronavirus hospitalisations worldwide doing it? The maths just doesn't add up on this.

Its 3 to 5 million infections not deaths annually. Deaths are estimated at between 250k to 500k per year globally. The vast majority of those deaths are in third world countries in Africa and Asia so no one takes notice. See this for a breakdown per country.

https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/influenza-pneumonia/by-country/

Notice the rate per 100k is almost 20x higher in most of Africa than the developed world.

I think the problem is how many people how localized and how fast. Patients spend weeks in ICU and on ventilators, using up resources fast. If the USA hits the lowest end of its projections it will see 5x the average flu deaths it sees in a whole year in a matter of a month. At the upper end as much as 10x in only a few weeks and this is with our largest population centers largely at home.

The virus is new no one has immunity yet. You need to get it to develop immunity. Once immune you cant spread it as easily. Right now everyone can get it and spread it. No vaccine no therapeutics no immunity. Without any measures the death toll will likely be much higher.

Not to mention flu deaths are largely estimated and fluctuate widely from season to season and over many months. Deaths from covid are probably also being underestimated. We know infections are widely out of wack, likely multiples higher than reported cases.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/italys-coronavirus-death-toll-is-far-higher-than-reported/ar-BB122vvc

It's all happening quickly I'm sure in months to come we will have a much better understanding. The Chinese as usual are a bunch of liars, who knows the real death toll, if they even bothered to count. They did take extreme measures but 3000 is a joke.

[Risto the Great]

One factor in their (Chinese) favour is they are not obese. I believe I heard some scientist report that 45% of everyone over 40 years of age in USA is obese. They said it was a variable that would distinguish USA from China in relation to the number of deaths.

Australians are just as fat.

Hopefully people might start looking after themselves.

[Vangelovski]

Its 3 to 5 million infections not deaths annually. Deaths are estimated at between 250k to 500k per year globally. The vast majority of those deaths are in third world countries in Africa and Asia so no one takes notice. See this for a breakdown per country.

https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/influenza-pneumonia/by-country/

Notice the rate per 100k is almost 20x higher in most of Africa than the developed world.

I think the problem is how many people how localized and how fast. Patients spend weeks in ICU and on ventilators, using up resources fast. If the USA hits the lowest end of its projections it will see 5x the average flu deaths it sees in a whole year in a matter of a month. At the upper end as much as 10x in only a few weeks and this is with our largest population centers largely at home.

The virus is new no one has immunity yet. You need to get it to develop immunity. Once immune you cant spread it as easily. Right now everyone can get it and spread it. No vaccine no therapeutics no immunity. Without any measures the death toll will likely be much higher.

Not to mention flu deaths are largely estimated and fluctuate widely from season to season and over many months. Deaths from covid are probably also being underestimated. We know infections are widely out of wack, likely multiples higher than reported cases.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/italys-coronavirus-death-toll-is-far-higher-than-reported/ar-BB122vvc

It's all happening quickly I'm sure in months to come we will have a much better understanding. The Chinese as usual are a bunch of liars, who knows the real death toll, if they even bothered to count. They did take extreme measures but 3000 is a joke.

Sorry, its 3-5 million seriously ill annually (meaning they most probably require hospitalisation). Billions of people get the flu every year, they just don't test and track.

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-s...enza-(seasonal)

I wouldn't rely too much on the modelling. Its nothing more than extrapolated assumptions.