History of the Modern Serbs

[TrueMacedonian]

Serb, Croat and Bulgar are all non-Slavic names that have a likely Iranic origin, and for the latter possibly even Turkic.

Albania and Montenegro are both Latin names yet neither one or the other is Latin.

Even the words Greece and Athens have no recognised 'Hellenic' etymology.

Yet most of the above are too busy trying to negate Macedonian history, when they can't even explain the official and international names of their states in their own languages.

That the 'Serb' name was used as a synonym for a Slavic peasant is beyond doubt, the user Bosnian once cited texts where the Serb and Bulgar names are mentioned as far as Dalmatia. The name for the language however, is somewhat different. I am having a hard time finding anything that refers to a 'Serbian language' prior to the 19th century.

The Balkans by Dennis P. Hupchick

[TrueMacedonian]

Here's something else on "Resava"- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manasija_monastery

Manasija (Serbian Cyrillic: Манасија), also known as Resava (Serbian Cyrillic: Ресава), is a Serb Orthodox monastery near Despotovac, Serbia, founded by Despotes Stefan Lazarević between 1407 and 1418. It is one of the most significant monuments of medieval Serbian culture and it belongs to the "Morava school". Immediately following its foundation, the monastery became the cultural centre of the Serbian Despotate. Its Resava school was well known for its manuscripts and translations throughout the 15th and 16th centuries, even after the fall of the Despotate to the Ottoman Turks.

and more here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomoravlje_District

The Resava-Manasija monastery is located in the immediate vicinity of Despotovac. The Resava endowment of Despot Stefan Lazarević was built between 1407 and 1418. Over the fifteenth century the famous Resava School carried out its work there, in the framework of several workshops in which major texts of the world heritage were copied and the new ones written. Konstantin the Philosopher, the author of the "Hagiography of Despot Stefan" and the "Book on Letters" which regulated the then current Orthography of Serbian language, carried out his creative work in the Resava monastery.

[TrueMacedonian]

Could it be that the Serbs many centuries ago referred to their language as "Resava"?

[Risto the Great]

The Balkans by Dennis P. Hupchick

I can't accept the language devised in medieval Bulgaria, but it is interesting to read the possible root of the Serbian form.

[Soldier of Macedon]

It was first devised in Salonika, which was never a part of the medieval Bulgarian empire, and it was based on Macedonian, not Bulgarian. The writer displays obvious acceptance of the outdated 'Bulgarian' generalisation, but that part is irrelevant, what is interesting is the 'Resava' term for the language.

[Soldier of Macedon]

http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,752216,00.html

Monday, Oct. 21, 1929

YUGOSLAVIA: Dangerous Decree

Restless little Dictator-King Alexander last week surprised and pained the potent Serbian element in his kingdom who have always been the bulwark of his power.

Most Serbians and many Slovenes write a queer, quaint alphabet, the Cyrillic. Himself a Serb, King Alexander knows that it is hard to change over to the Latin alphabet used by U. S. citizens and all his Croatian subjects. But just now His Majesty is launched on a passionate campaign of national unification (TIME, Oct. 14). Therefore he announced last week that he would shortly suppress Cyrillic by royal and dictatorial decree.

Worried Jugoslav elder statesmen reflected that if the Serbs become vexed at having to learn a new alphabet and turn from youthful King Alexander, a revolution will infallibly result. Even in Turkey, where the Latin alphabet was "successfully" imposed on a docile people two years ago by Dictator-President Mustafa Kemal Pasha, its practical adoption has lagged so grievously that last year there was published in all the Turkish Republic one, and only one, book.

[Delodephius]

Resava is an orthographic style/form, not a language. The text says that clearly actually. It's named after the Resava school where it was used and popularized, and the monastery was known for its many copyists. We used the phrase "like in Resava" in school when we had a plan to cheat on our exams. :-d

[George S.]

Slovak isn't the serbian language an adopted macedonian with an accent,didn't the serbians come from Iran originally???

[Soldier of Macedon]

George, you've made such ignorant comments in the past and have received answers for them, why do you persist? I would really like people to start knowing what they're talking about before they start talking when it comes to these matters. The balance of influence in the historical Paleo-Balkan/Balto-Slavic-speaking world has shifted a number of times over the centuries.

One could argue that all of those languages originally came from a mother-tongue in the Paleo-Balkan sphere thousands of years ago, which were subsequently influenced by the spread of Proto Indo-European; then 1,500 years ago a heavy influence disseminated from the regions around and north of the Danube (such as today's Slovakia) as a result of the invasions and rebellions within the (east) Roman Empire; then 1,000 years ago another layer of influence spread out during the time of Cyril, Methodius, Clement and Naum; then a couple of hundred years ago there was a layer of Russian influence; all of this in addition to more regional influences that have transpired between those groups that live within close vicinity to each other, etc. All of these layers reached different parts of the Paleo-Balkan/Balto-Slavic-speaking world at different times, and imposed themselves on the local (but related) languages to varying degrees.

That is just an example, but I wanted to highlight how complex the whole situation can be. It is never as simple as one saying that a particular Slavic langauge is a mere replica of another with an accent. In the case of the Serbs, they were speaking a Slavic language before the missionary works, enlightenment and literature of the Macedonian saints from the 9th and 10th centuries.

[George S.]

Thanks for the reminder SOM.Perhaps i don't go back into history back enough i look at it from the 6/7th century from cyril & methodius time spreading the macedonian language thats how i assumed that they got their language I assumed that the serbs came from Iran in that time period.but as you say there''s new paleo;balkan,balto slavic theory of which you say refers to how the serbs got their language obviously you think that's the current theory & you think it's right i'll go along with it.

[Epirot]

Nice thread!

To my humble opinion, Serbs are nothing else but the northern counterpart of 'Greeks'. At that time, the word 'Serb' was used to denote an Orthodox peasant rather than a ethnic origin!

[Soldier of Macedon]

I assumed that the serbs came from Iran in that time period.

The tribes that carried the Serbian name may well have originated in Iran, or the name may have become attached to its carriers while they were in contact with Indo-Iranian peoples. The fact is, by the time there were tribes name 'Serb' in Europe, they were already a predominantly Slavic-speaking group. If there was an Indo-Iranian element remaining in the linguistic sense, it probably existed alongside the Avar elite north of the Danube, but by the time the Serbs established themselves in their current homeland any remnant of Indo-Iranians would have disappeared.

[Soldier of Macedon]

To my humble opinion, Serbs are nothing else but the northern counterpart of 'Greeks'. At that time, the word 'Serb' was used to denote an Orthodox peasant rather than a ethnic origin!

At which time?

[Onur]

To my humble opinion, Serbs are nothing else but the northern counterpart of 'Greeks'. At that time, the word 'Serb' was used to denote an Orthodox peasant rather than a ethnic origin

I don't think Serbs have any relation with Greeks.

The ancestors of today`s Serbian people was most likely from Avaric and then Moravian states and they came in to the Balkans after Hunnic expansion and settled there along with Avars. Not only Serbs, probably all western and some of the eastern slavic speakers are related with Avar and Moravian states too.


What i wrote above here has been recorded by Frankish and Roman records of that time and further attested with archeological findings but theories of so-called Iranian origins of Serbs, Croats and others are nothing but fantasy. Thats like the Bulgarian theory of Afghan/Iran origins of Bulgars. They have no proof for neither of these.

Some of the new age Balkan historians trying to rewrite a clean-cut history for themselves by claiming Indo-Iranian heritage just like German and French medieval and enlightenment era revisionist philosophers did by claiming Troyan, ancient Hellenic, Roman heritage, totally ignoring their so-called "barbarian" era. So, they are trying to copy them in that sense.

[Epirot]

I don't think Serbs have any relation with Greeks.

The ancestors of today`s Serbian people was most likely from Avaric and then Moravian states and they came in to the Balkans after Hunnic expansion and settled there along with Avars. Not only Serbs, probably all western and some of the eastern slavic speakers are related with Avar and Moravian states too.


What i wrote above here has been recorded by Frankish and Roman records of that time and further attested with archeological findings but theories of so-called Iranian origins of Serbs, Croats and others are nothing but fantasy. Thats like the Bulgarian theory of Afghan/Iran origins of Bulgars. They have no proof for neither of these.

Some of the new age Balkan historians trying to rewrite a clean-cut history for themselves by claiming Indo-Iranian heritage just like German and French medieval and enlightenment era revisionist philosophers did by claiming Troyan, ancient Hellenic, Roman heritage, totally ignoring their so-called "barbarian" era. So, they are trying to copy them in that sense.

I didn't claim that Serbs and Greeks had the same origin. I was refereing mainly to the XIX century period, time when many Balkan 'national' identities were established for the first time. You know better than me that during Ottoman rule in Balkans, there was no Serbian ethnic identity or consciesnous. Ancestors of modern Serbs at that time have had a vague perception about themselves. They identify themselves as Greeks, i.e Orthodoxes, Vlachs but defintely not as Serbs. It was only the XIX century, Rusian aids and Berlin's decions that give a birth to the Serbian 'nation'. It did not differ much from creation of 'Greek' identity: prior to XIX century they hardly could identify themselves as ethnic group.