The Macedonian Minority in Albania and Kosovo

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  • Soldier of Macedon
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 13670

    #61


    Who are the Macedonian Muslims

    Accepting the Islam with the Mijak Macedonians in Reka is a process that started in XVI and lasted until the second half of XIX century. However, this conversion from one into another confession was not massive but rather individual and lasted for a long period of time.

    First records of Muslims in the Reka region date from 1852, and are recorded in Turkish defters. They say that in the regions of Dolna (Lower), Mala (Small) and Golema (Big) Reka there are 23 villages with Christian and Muslim households; 559 Christian households and 239 bachelor Christians, as well as 120 Muslim households and 14 bachelor Muslims. In addition, in the region of Gorna (Upper) Reka there were 13 villages with 383 Christian households and 132 Islamized Christians, as well as 42 Muslim households, in the same period.

    Next document that speaks about the Islamization of the Macedonians is a letter from the Sultan Yahya to the Roman Pope in 1644, where there is a record of coverting into Islam by numerous Christian families. The letter states the conversion of 800 Catholics from upper and lower Debar and of another 800 people from Reka into Islam.

    History science says that there was no single reason for accepting the Islam, but rather many motives. The main motive is the need for protection of the population (especially the one in the Reka region) from the Albanian gangs which were intruding from Albania and raiding the region on daily basis. In fact, the only way out from this state of raids and plunders done by Albanian kachaks – mainly from Ljuma and Mat – who also killed people, was accepting the Islam, as in that case the Ottoman Empire would provide more efficient protection of the inhabitants.

    In addition, a strategic target of the Turks in late medieval period was creation of Muslim zone between rebellion Albanians and tactical ravines (Reka and Kičevo-Jama). Besides these reasons, there are few more minor motives for accepting the Islam by the Macedonians: Breaking off with Christianity by unmarried girls by marrying Turkish beys and landlords had a significant impact on creating kin bonds with families of the Islamized girls; this led to softening of religious attitudes and change of confessions.

    Working abroad in Turkey, Middle East, and other regions with Muslim majority is another factor for Islamization in Reka. Virtually, when people working abroad would return to their homes they were already Islamized and they would pass the Islam to their families.

    Accepting the Islam influenced lowering of taxes for those families, which also provided opportunities for higher social rank.

    Whatever the reasons for Islamization of the Macedonian Muslims, the fact remains that Macedonian Muslims have never given up their Macedonian ethnicity, and they always felt connected with particular Christian holidays and beliefs, such as Gjurgjovden (St. George's Day), Mitrovden, Petkovden, Varvara, or Letnik.

    There is an interesting fact stated by Galaba Palikruševa, PhD, in her works about the Islamization of the Macedonians, where it is declared that many people from Reka in the early stages of Islamization have just virtually changed their first and family names. This proves that bi-confessionalism in the Reka villages lasted from the beginning of the Islamization until the XVIII century. In accordance with the economical interest, the Islamization spread slowly and peacefully. With Islam acceptance among the Mijaks, new relations in the group were created, based on religious differences and two names for the same ethnicity appeared – Mijaci and Torbeshi. During time, these groups acquired different behaviors, but their relationship always remained friendly.

    Toma Smiljanić, PhD, one of the first explorers of Gorna Reka, states that sometimes only a part of the family would accept Islam, but the family would remain compact. He presents the fact that in 1920's the Popovci family from Nistrovo still had Macedonian Muslim relatives. The same is the case with the family Venovci from the village of Vrben (Macedonian Christians) with Macedonian Muslim relatives in the village of Žužnje.


    * In the preparation of this text, materials were used from Gligor Todorovski's book Demographical Changes in Macedonia from the Late XIV Century until the Balkan Wars and PhD dissertation of Galaba Palikruševa PhD: Islamization of Torbeshi and Establishing of Torbesh Sub-group.
    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

    Comment

    • Soldier of Macedon
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 13670

      #62
      Torbeshboy, on page 5 on this thread I have posted a link to a song called "ne me cekai majko, ne me barai", have you heard of it, and can you confirm the story behind it regarding the plane crash?
      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

      Comment

      • Pelister
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 2742

        #63
        You know what I think about.

        Here we have one of the highest plateau's in the balkans, if not the highest - the Gora region, ceded by Serbia in 1957.

        And it has only ever been inhabited by Macedonians.

        Comment

        • Daniel the Great
          Senior Member
          • Nov 2009
          • 1084

          #64
          Македонци во Албанија

          Во Албанија има вкупно 46 села со чисто етничко Македонско население.



          Дебарско – Голо Брдско (север и југозападно од Дебар, наречен Дрим – Колски дел) со 22 села населени со македонци. Врница,Мало Острени,Големо Острени, Вичишта, Миреши, Владимерица, Ѓиновец, Студна, Забзун, Борово, Клење Којовец, Лешничани, Радоешта, Себишт, Стеблево, Требиште, Смолник, Тучепи. И помеѓу Маќелара и Пешкупеја има 3 Македонски села Горна Крчиште, Долна Крчиште и Ербеле.


          Горија (североно – источно од Корча до Билишта и Трстеник на албанска и Грчка граница во правец на Костур) 1 село .Во Егејскот дел во Албанија има едно села Врник.

          Мала Преспа (на југ од Преспанското Езеро) 9 села. Во Мала Преспа се следните села Туминец, Горна Горица, Долна Горица, Глобочани, Шулин, Пустец, Леска, Зрноско и Церје.

          Гора (северно – источно од Кукс) 9 села Оршек, Цернолево, Борје, Оргоста, Запод, Кошаришта, Ново Село, Оруша, Пашиѓа.

          Освен селата Македонците ги има и концетрирани и во нај големите градови во Република Албанија. Во Тирана првите gora-albanijaмиграци на Македонците од Голо Брдо, Мала Преспа, Гора, Река, Струшко – Охриско се од првата светска војна 1915-1917 година. Потоа 1923,1929,1939 и нај големата миграција од етничките региони кон по големите градови е во периодот 1949 до 1960 година. Иста ситуациај е и во другите по големи градови, Елбасан, Драч, Корча, Билишта, Подградец, Скадар, Либражд, Валона, Фиер, Патос. Македонците во Тирана се концетрирани претежно во седум региони на градот.


          English translation:
          Дебарско – Голо Брдско (север и југозападно од Дебар, наречен Дрим – Колски дел) со 22 села населени со македонци. Врница,Мало Острени,Големо Острени, Вичишта, Миреши, Владимерица, Ѓиновец, Студна, Забзун, Борово, Клење Којовец, Лешничани, Радоешта, Себишт, Стеблево, Требиште, Смолник, Тучепи. И помеѓу Маќелара и Пешкупеја има 3 Македонски села Горна Крчиште, Долна Крчиште и Ербеле.



          Website Makedonska Nacija:
          Дебарско – Голо Брдско (север и југозападно од Дебар, наречен Дрим – Колски дел) со 22 села населени со македонци. Врница,Мало Острени,Големо Острени, Вичишта, Миреши, Владимерица, Ѓиновец, Студна, Забзун, Борово, Клење Којовец, Лешничани, Радоешта, Себишт, Стеблево, Требиште, Смолник, Тучепи. И помеѓу Маќелара и Пешкупеја има 3 Македонски села Горна Крчиште, Долна Крчиште и Ербеле.
          Last edited by Daniel the Great; 05-05-2010, 03:19 AM.

          Comment

          • Mastika
            Member
            • Feb 2010
            • 503

            #65
            Originally posted by daniel the great View Post
            Во Албанија има вкупно 46 села со чисто етничко Македонско население.



            Дебарско – Голо Брдско (север и југозападно од Дебар, наречен Дрим – Колски дел) со 22 села населени со македонци. Врница,Мало Острени,Големо Острени, Вичишта, Миреши, Владимерица, Ѓиновец, Студна, Забзун, Борово, Клење Којовец, Лешничани, Радоешта, Себишт, Стеблево, Требиште, Смолник, Тучепи. И помеѓу Маќелара и Пешкупеја има 3 Македонски села Горна Крчиште, Долна Крчиште и Ербеле.
            Други Македонски села во Голо Брдо се Пасинки, Оржаново, Камен, Голеишта и Извири. Следните четири села Смолик, Себишта, Борово и Забзун не се со "чисто етничко Македонско население" бидејќи во тие места живее и Албанско население. Мнозинството се Македонци. Исто така Горно и Долно Крчиште и Ербеле се мешани.

            Originally posted by daniel the great View Post
            Горија (североно – источно од Корча до Билишта и Трстеник на албанска и Грчка граница во правец на Костур) 1 село .Во Егејскот дел во Албанија има едно села Врник.
            Има уште две Македонски села во овој крај, Бобоштица и Дреново. Тие се наоѓаат во околината на градот Корча но поголемиот дел на населението е Албанизирано. Спореди лингвисти, само има скоро 10 зборувачи на Македонски (3~ во Дреново и 5-6~ во Бобоштица).

            Originally posted by daniel the great View Post
            Мала Преспа (на југ од Преспанското Езеро) 9 села. Во Мала Преспа се следните села Туминец, Горна Горица, Долна Горица, Глобочани, Шулин, Пустец, Леска, Зрноско и Церје.
            Селото Лин, се наоѓа на западниот брег на Охридското езеро и е село со 50% Македонско и %50 Албанско население.

            Originally posted by daniel the great View Post
            Гора (северно – источно од Кукс) 9 села Оршек, Цернолево, Борје, Оргоста, Запод, Кошаришта, Ново Село, Оруша, Пашиѓа.
            Селото Шиштевец е уште едно Горанско/Македонско село во Албанскиот дел на Гора.
            Last edited by Mastika; 05-06-2010, 05:24 AM.

            Comment

            • Soldier of Macedon
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 13670

              #66
              Mastika, according to your research, what would be an accurate estimate with regard to the number of Macedonians in Albania?
              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

              Comment

              • Prolet
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2009
                • 5241

                #67
                Thats a good question SOM

                Ico asked the same thing when he interviewed Kimet Fetahu's vnuk where he said that roughly 250,000 Makedonci live in Albania. The Albanian Government however says there are only 5000 in the Mala Prespa region.
                МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                Comment

                • Soldier of Macedon
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 13670

                  #68
                  Is Ico still supporting Ljube?
                  In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                  Comment

                  • Daniel the Great
                    Senior Member
                    • Nov 2009
                    • 1084

                    #69
                    Originally posted by Mastika View Post
                    Други Македонски села во Голо Брдо се Пасинки, Оржаново, Камен, Голеишта и Извири. Следните четири села Смолик, Себишта, Борово и Забзун не се со "чисто етничко Македонско население" бидејќи во тие места живее Албанско население. Мнозинството се Македонци. Исто така Горно и Долно Крчиште и Ербеле се мешани.



                    Има уште две Македонски села во овој крај, Бобоштица и Дреново. Тие се наоѓаат во околината на градот Корча но поголемиот дел на населението е Албанизирано. Спореди лингвисти, само има скоро 10 зборувачи на Македонски (3~ во Дреново и 5-6~ во Бобоштица).



                    Селото Лин, се наоѓа на западниот брег на Охридското езеро и е село со 50% Македонско и %50 Албанско население.



                    Селото Шиштевец е уште едно Горанско/Македонско село во Албанскиот дел на Гора.

                    Mastika, i do not know much about the Macedonian inhabited villages in Albania, i just saw this information on a website and thought it might interest some people.
                    But thank you anyway for putting in some of your own knowledge in this thread.

                    Comment

                    • Mastika
                      Member
                      • Feb 2010
                      • 503

                      #70
                      Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                      Mastika, according to your research, what would be an accurate estimate with regard to the number of Macedonians in Albania?
                      This is very frustrating!!! I wrote a very lenghty post detailing my research region by region and I will not be writing it again, it is my fault for not copying it, however it wouldn't let me log back in when I tried to post it and when i pressed "back" it refreshed the page, clearing what i had written.

                      Basically, I arrived at a figure of c.47,000, which is subject to great fluctuation. 11,000 in Mala Prespa + region. 13,000 in Golo Brdo + region. 11,000 in Gora and 12,000 throughout the major cities. If you like I will discuss each individual region however I am not recapping all of Albania. The true figure lies between 35,000-50,000 and this is the most common range for population estimates.

                      Figures such as 250,000 are simply not true. What has preserved the Macedonian identity and language is the compact nature of the three communities which has ensured the continuing of culture and language, whereas in the case of the outlying villages (eg. Bobostica/Drenovo) their isolation has meant that they have completely been assimilated.

                      Comment

                      • Daskalot
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 4345

                        #71
                        Mastika, when you login on the forum there is a radio-button on the side of your username/password which if activated keeps you logged on to the forum, thus preventing the above of happening again.
                        Macedonian Truth Organisation

                        Comment

                        • Mastika
                          Member
                          • Feb 2010
                          • 503

                          #72
                          Originally posted by Daskalot View Post
                          Mastika, when you login on the forum there is a radio-button on the side of your username/password which if activated keeps you logged on to the forum, thus preventing the above of happening again.
                          Thanks. I will make sure that I use it.

                          Comment

                          • Soldier of Macedon
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 13670

                            #73
                            Mastika, in your opinion, aside from the territories that are located next to the borders of the Macedonian republic, are there any Macedonian communities that exist further into Albania?
                            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                            Comment

                            • Mastika
                              Member
                              • Feb 2010
                              • 503

                              #74
                              Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                              Mastika, in your opinion, aside from the territories that are located next to the borders of the Macedonian republic, are there any Macedonian communities that exist further into Albania?
                              There are of course Macedonians who have emigrated from the 3 main regions to the cities and have formed communities in the larger cities. However as is the case upon monving to the cities the language/identity is affected due to lack of provisions and interaction with Macedonian and close contact with Albanian. Assimilation is much higher in the cities then in the traditional regions of settlement. Korca seems to be the only exception to this where a large and robust Macedonian community has developed. So too in Elbasan a compact Macedonian Muslim community exists as well as a Gorani community in Kukes.

                              However I know that is not the answer that you are looking for. Are there any Macedonian villages further in Albania?? Short answer is No, long answer is No unassimilated villages. Historically there were numerous Macedonian villages in Albania, they were mainly concentrated in the Korca and Bilista areas. Pre Ottoman rule the range of Slavic peoples throughout Albania probably streched much further and there were many Slavic settlements throughout all of Albania. However many of these people either converted to Islam and were assimilated or left for Montenegro, Serbia, Macedonia, Bulgaria.

                              100 years ago there were many more Macedonian villages located in Albania then there is today, especially in the Korca region. According to a report from 1897 Macedonians lived in much of the Bilist region as well as a number of other regions throughout the Korca area. This is commented on here http://www.rastko.rs/rastko-al/zborn...akedonci_l.php . Those villages away from the border region had their population flee to either Macedonia or Bulgaria or the majority were isolated from any forms of their own (Macedonian) culture and were assimilated (eg. Bobostica, Drenovo). I did some research on the villages that were listed by Margarita Peševska as having Macedonians in the c.1900 however it appears that the majority suffered the same fate as Bobostica and Drenovo.

                              Those Macedonians who lived away from the primary Macedonian zones slowly but surely left Albania and those who stayed were assimilated. A considerable number was slowly emigrating however a larger group went post-1919 (when Albania officially took over the Korca region) and post- World War Two (many Macedonian villages such as Bobostica were burnt by the Balli Kombetar during WW2 so the population fled to where they would amongst their own people and safe, of those who remained the rest latched on to the wave of refugees from the Greek Civil War which fled into Albania in 1949).

                              If people do exist of Macedonian descent then they are likely to see themselves as Albanians and I would be very surprised if they speak Macedonian, otherwise they would have been reported on by linguists. I remember watching a number of youtube videos about the "Assimilated Bulgarians of Albania". So basically I would not consider people like this to be Macedonian.

                              I hope I have answered your question.
                              Last edited by Mastika; 05-07-2010, 01:00 AM.

                              Comment

                              • Soldier of Macedon
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 13670

                                #75
                                Thanks for the response, that was what I was looking for.
                                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                                Comment

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